Mft3 & Parrellel guides should I?

[Mahomo59]

Have a larger workshop now! And the space is great with 2.5m ceilings and an upstairs with small kitchen, toilet, office and two lobby type areas (great for storage and display area)
So...I'm thinking new kit. Initial thoughts: parallel guides and mft3.  I have two kitchens, wardrobe build and under stairs cupboard. I generally get all my sheets goods cut for me by Avonplywood with .2mm accuracy @ 50p per metre. Very good service, especially as they lip it if required. Oh another good thing is that they label the items as well showing name of part etc, grain direction and size.
But there is an occasion where I need to cut my own sheet goods, for example...moved a job forward next week and haven't enough lead time to get cut for me. So much to my own disappointment I'll be handling 8x4 sheets etc. Re watched first two series of MrBigerock kitchen build for his mum and it looks brilliant for repeat cuts. I have a Ron Paulk bench and Parf dogs, but looking for something a little easier to use.  I also like the way the ug wing clamps on the side. I don't need a large table saw, have the dw745 and get by with that for now.
Going to build assembly table with storage just under 8x4 in size and can throw a piece of rigid foam on top for cutting.
Question is...is this a popular set up amongst fellow foggers, or are there alternatives I should be looking at.

Cheers

James

11m x 5.5m

 

[duburban]

i can't recommend the seneca parallel guides over festool's enough. cheaper and more flexible too.

 

[Cheese]

[member=22883]Mahomo59[/member]
James,
Just noticed the Dewalt radial arm saw. Do you still use it a lot and if so, what do you use it for?

I've got one just like it and have been thinking about getting rid of it to free up some space. Problem is, I've owned it for the last 40 years, so I'm reluctant to pull the pin.

 

[Mahomo59]

It's not mine...the other joiner who had the workshop, it belongs to him. 

 

[Cheese]

Thanks for replying... [smile]

 

[leer]

i can't recommend the seneca parallel guides over festool's enough. cheaper and more flexible too.

Dittos.  I have the Seneca Parallel Guides and they are first rate.

Rather than rely on the scales of the Incra T-tracks that are used with the Seneca Guides, I bought several Woodpeckers aluminum rules, and a stop, to precisely set the cut width.  And then decided for some projects I was finding it easier to use metric, so bought one more rule in metric.  Now I want all three lengths of rules in Imperial and metric.  It is an absolute sickness.  (I have two Woodpeckers orders on the books currently for "One Time Tools" I just could not live without as soon as they were announced.)

I tell my wife my woodworking expenses should not be much of a concern, because, I do not smoke, and I barely drink.  But lately I think she wishes my vices were smoking and drinking, rather than woodworking ...

 

[SoonerFan]

James,
I have both and MFT/3 and the Parrallel Guides.  Both, in my opinion, are super.  I use the MFT/3 on every project and the Parrallel Guides are great for sheet goods and repeatability when needed.  I have not tried the Seneca guides but the Festool Parrallel Guides can be very accurate when dialed in.  Glad I have both and think you would be happy as well.  The MFT/3 would be the choice for me if only getting one.

Great new shop BTW.  I am jealous of the space.

 

[fdeloncker]

I have no experience with the Seneca guides, but I have the Festool and have used them many times and really like them.

 

[eddomak]

I have the Precision Parallel Guides and like them a lot. They were a lot cheaper than the Festool ones. I believe the main issue people have with the Festool ones are:
1) The guides need to be positioned along the very edges/corners (perpendicular to the cut line) of the material being cut
2) The guides do not have any vertical support on the material being cut (there are some DIY solutions to this)
3) The narrow rip extensions can be bulky and need to hang down

With the Seneca and Precision versions all of the above are addressed quite simply.
1) Position anywhere along the edge parallel to the cut line - can even slide the rail up the material as you go (if your rail isn't as long as the material being cut)...
2) They sit on top of the material being cut
3) The extension bars for narrow rips are only 10(?)mm or thereabouts, so thinner than most material and doesn't need space underneath.

What I liked about the Precision version (apart from having good dealings with them for Precision Dogs) was that it can be removed from the guide rail without tools - just a thumbscrew. It looks like the Seneca does it the other way - the black parts attached to the rail are hex, but then you can remove the T-Track easily.

There is the "Rip Dogs" version available on eBay which is not aluminium, which I have no experience with. But they also have a good video on YouTube https://youtu.be/_f6kbeK1zZQ.

Also how they deal with narrow stock is slightly different from Precision/Seneca.

 

[jafenske]

I have the Festool parallel guides. The other downside of the Festool parallel guides is that they are hard to use with material less than 18mm thick. For that reason I am considering getting something else.

 

[Klamp]

The MFT is great, but I'd skip the festool parallel guides and opt for either the Seneca, rip dogs, or precision dogs guides. As already mentioned, they're easier to handle, move, and use.  I had the festool guides and sold them for the various reasons already mentioned and am so much happier with my precision dog guides. 

 

[jnug]

That is a really good point about the dif between the Seneca and the Precision. I thought I was seeing things myself. I have the Precision Dogs coming. I have to admit that I have been worried that Seneca actually gets something for the effort of attaching to the rail with two allen bolts where Precision uses the one knob or thumbscrew. But in the end I decided that it must be the length of the material interface of guide to rail that properly aligns the guides to the rail at right angles and not the fact of having two fixturing points for the guide to the the rail. As long as Precision has machined the material properly the interface of material should provide alignment with the thumbscrew knob just there for attachment purposes.

Point being, I don't intend keeping the parallel guides attached to my rail and would prefer just a quick turn of that thumbscrew to get them apart. However I fully intend keeping the guides attached to my T-tracks.

I would take either over the Festool parallel guides for ease of use, and cost and possibly longevity as well as there have been some complaints about some of the parts of the Festool parallel guide system as well.

 

[Klamp]

The precision dogs also come with button head socket screws to attach the guides to the rail.  These are used instead of the knobs when using thicker material and the ts55.  If you plunge past around 40mm on the ts55 the bottom of the motor housing will hit the knobs (and would hit any knob) and cause your saw to jump on your cut (ask me how I know  [tongue]).  Having just bought and used these, I thought it was a nice touch.  And Jerry was stand-up.

From what I understand the ts75 does not have this issue. 

FWIW, precision dogs uses fractional hardware and rip dogs uses metric hardware.  I don't know what Seneca uses.

 

[jnug]

Another really good point and although my TS is the 75 it never occurred to me to think that the supplied knob would not in some instances create enough clearance between the rail and guide fixtures. But I guess it does not matter as long as the Precision kit comes with a way to attach to the rail by other means than the knob. I am only guessing but the button head must use the same threaded hole that the knob uses. If one really wanted to keep a flush top surface on the guide I suppose one could just go get an allen bolt of the right size and drop it right into that same hole.

 

[Mahomo59]

Many thanks folks, i'm going to order some from the states and mft3 from the UK.

thanks again

James

 

[eddomak]

Many thanks folks, i'm going to order some from the states...

Good stuff... of course the question remains, which ones will you order?  [big grin]

 

[sancho57]

To answer your question, yea that's pretty much the set up. I use 2 MFTs with some 2x to set on top of the MFTs for ripping the ply. I use the Festool parallel guides. Which ever PGa you like and give you accurate cuts will give you the results you desire.

For thing stock in a production environment that small Table saw will do you.
Personally because I live in the UK and can get the NAINA stuff, I went with the CMS and got the saw module ( TS 75) and the router module with the 2200. I also oicked up the jig saw module for template / jig making. It saves me a lot of room. But then I got a shop that fits into half a UK 2 car garage.

Now what isn't being mentioned is the length of guide rails you should get. That is all personal preference. Ask 4 people you'll get 6 answers.

For shop ripping full sheets of ply to width Id go with the 3000 guide rail. The MFTS should come with one to cross cut to length.

If you plan on building cabinets in the future you might want to look into the LR32 system, in which case get 2 holy rails (1400) which you can connect together to rip ply. A 1400 should come with your TS if your getting a ts55. Talk to your dealer and see if you can swap it for a holy rail for a few quid more, then you would only need to get another 1400 holy rail.

Open this helps you.

 

[JeromeM]

I have the Festool parallel guides. The other downside of the Festool parallel guides is that they are hard to use with material less than 18mm thick. For that reason I am considering getting something else.

I've just been using the Festool parallel guides, with extensions fitted, with 13mm plywood and 16mm MDF with no problems.

All you need is a cutting support that is narrower than the stock being cut. For me that was a WorkMate with a piece of 20mm expanded polystyrene on it.

An alternative could be a lattice cutting surface.

If you insist on using the MFT then you can easily make 2 or more wood I beam supports.