Microfence - is it better to get it in metric or imperial?

[Jimxavier]

I’m adding the microfence to my of 1400 as an edge guide. I may even add the circle guide for its interface capability that allows it to run on the Festool guide rail.

My tools are in imperial, my woodpeckers measuring devices are imperial. For some reason this microfence seems like it makes more sense to go metric.

What do you guys think?

 

[Cheese]

I’m adding the microfence to my of 1400 as an edge guide. I may even add the circle guide for its interface capability that allows it to run on the Festool guide rail.

My tools are in imperial, my woodpeckers measuring devices are imperial. For some reason this microfence seems like it makes more sense to go metric.

What do you guys think?

My routers are all metric and my TS & TSC are both metric. [big grin]

However I chose the imperial version for my routers.  [tongue]

I reasoned that for gross adjustments I'd just position the adjuster where I wanted it so it wouldn't matter. However, when sneaking up  on dimensions, removing .004" of material registered more clearly in my mind than removing .10mm of material.

Besides, the imperial version is capable of being adjusted in .001" increments and the backlash is in the .0005"-.001" range so the imperial version is quite accurate when using small increments.

 

[Jimxavier]

Yeah, my OF 1400 is imperial. Personally I’m not too particular on the measuring scale.  For some reason this microfence edge guide just seems more suited for metric. I’m not sure if this will get confusing or if it’s the right call.

[member=44099]Cheese[/member]

 

[Cheese]

Well think of it this way, the imperial version can be adjusted in .001” increments while the metric version can only be adjusted in .004” increments.

It really depends on what you work on. Any inlay work may make a difference.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Duh, metric of course.  [tongue]

 

[Jimxavier]

Duh, metric of course.  [tongue]

Even though my tools are imperial?

 

[Jimxavier]

Well think of it this way, the imperial version can be adjusted in .001” increments while the metric version can only be adjusted in .004” increments.

It really depends on what you work on. Any inlay work may make a difference.

I have never done inlay work, but I’d love to get into it.

 

[RKA]

I got the metric.  I say get the imperial.  Most of the time I'm using it for offsets.  If you're plowing a dado or groove with a bit that measures 0.480" and the dado needs to fit a plywood shelf that's 0.720", you'll need to offset the second pass at the difference between the two plus 0.004" for a nice fit.  So 0.244".  The extra resolution on the imperial dial is nice (these fine adjustments are exactly what this tool was made to do).  I haven't yet run into a situation where I find it useful to have the metric fence.  All the measuring for the offsets is done with digital calipers, which are obviously equally fluent in imperial and metric.  [tongue]

 

[Jimxavier]

I got the metric.  I say get the imperial.  Most of the time I'm using it for offsets.  If you're plowing a dado or groove with a bit that measures 0.480" and the dado needs to fit a plywood shelf that's 0.720", you'll need to offset the second pass at the difference between the two plus 0.004" for a nice fit.  So 0.244".  The extra resolution on the imperial dial is nice (these fine adjustments are exactly what this tool was made to do).  I haven't yet run into a situation where I find it useful to have the metric fence.  All the measuring for the offsets is done with digital calipers, which are obviously equally fluent in imperial and metric.  [tongue]

Thanks! I think I’ll go with the imperial.

 

[harry_]

which measuring standard do you think/work in?

 

[Cheese]

I got the metric.  I say get the imperial.  Most of the time I'm using it for offsets.  If you're plowing a dado or groove with a bit that measures 0.480" and the dado needs to fit a plywood shelf that's 0.720", you'll need to offset the second pass at the difference between the two plus 0.004" for a nice fit.  So 0.244".  The extra resolution on the imperial dial is nice (these fine adjustments are exactly what this tool was made to do).  I haven't yet run into a situation where I find it useful to have the metric fence.  All the measuring for the offsets is done with digital calipers, which are obviously equally fluent in imperial and metric.  [tongue]

[member=21249]RKA[/member] 
Hey Raj just curious where the .004" number comes from. Is that a number that was derived through trial & error or is it more a function of the increment the metric version is capable of indexing in?

 

[RKA]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member]
Sage advice passed down through the interwebs coupled with trial and error.  The trial and error usually ends up a waste of my time and I come back to 0.004 as the perfect balance of snug but not so much that I end up glue soaked parts that can’t be assembled.

 

[waho6o9]

Maybe give them a call, they're good folks!
MICRO FENCE

12970 Branford Street #M, Arleta, CA 91331

Tel: 818-683-0330

Fax: 818-683-0374

To Order: 1-800-480-6427

E-mail: microfence[member=6021]microfence[/member].com

 

[PeterJJames13]

Maybe give them a call, they're good folks!
MICRO FENCE

12970 Branford Street #M, Arleta, CA 91331

Tel: 818-683-0330

Fax: 818-683-0374

To Order: 1-800-480-6427

E-mail: microfence[member=6021]microfence[/member].com

I'll second this. Rich was super helpful when I called. I had a ton of questions and he answered each one easily and got me the exact setup I was looking for. Oh, and I went imperial since that is what my routers are.....

 

[grbmds]

Duh, metric of course.  [tongue]

Even though my tools are imperial?

While certainly metric is much easier for math, the issue for me is which scale I feel most comfortable using. Fortunately or unfortunately, for me, it's always imperial mostly because I've spent over 40 years working with wood using the imperial scale. So, I think the best solution is what you want to work in and what generates the least mistakes in your work.

 

[Cheese]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member]
Sage advice passed down through the interwebs coupled with trial and error.  The trial and error usually ends up a waste of my time and I come back to 0.004 as the perfect balance of snug but not so much that I end up glue soaked parts that can’t be assembled.

Thanks for that...I'll be building some cabinets soon and I'll use that .004" number.  [big grin]

 

[DeformedTree]

Duh, metric of course.  [tongue]

Even though my tools are imperial?

While certainly metric is much easier for math, the issue for me is which scale I feel most comfortable using. Fortunately or unfortunately, for me, it's always imperial mostly because I've spent over 40 years working with wood using the imperial scale. So, I think the best solution is what you want to work in and what generates the least mistakes in your work.

And that's certainly the reason most people stay with inch.  It comes down to getting stuff around you to change.  Once you go for it, you see even more how much stuff is metric, basically everything is. But if you are in the US, everything has been "relabeled" to hide the fact.  Plywood is a good example, just trying to buy it gets frustrating when you call up a retailer and ask if they carry Baltic birch for example and you say 18mm and they say they have 3/4.  Same for even in HD and Lowes,  they label stuff 3/4 even when you can read the edge of the sheet and it says 18mm.  Carry metric tape measure with you and start measuring random stuff in stores, you will see all you need to do is just block out the mis-labeling of things and then everything becomes much simpler.  Building materials is an area folks tend to think as a hold of for inch, but in the end, it's a lot more metric than most realize. 

Other things depend on what you are working on, if you do things like cabinets, and start grabbing say Blum hardware, metric becomes a no-brainer.

I think a lot of folks probably do a hybrid of things.  Rough construction/framing in the US is still general done in inches. Soon as I work on more finish stuff (windows, cabinets, etc) I do that in metric, it's easier and the parts are natively metric.  I own a lot of tape measures.

For sure don't use a system that your un-comfortable with.  But don't be afraid to dive in at some point. Inch based stuff will become less common with time, listed values will be more metric listed with time.  Do you want to shift when younger or when you are full blow old curmudgeon be forced to start working in metric due to the US finally making the last bits of conversion or shear lack of anything based in inches anymore?

 

[Cheese]

.. not sure how the world would look if an arbitrary unit of measure with the limiting factors of 10 was all that was available to them. The best example of this is the golden ratio.

LOL...that’s simple, obviously there is no metric Golden Ratio.  [big grin]

 

[DeformedTree]

As a mechanical engineer I use both the metric and the standard system. I do find the artificial simplicity of the metric system to be a false improvement. The removal the the ratio or fraction from a measurement system is a shortcoming in my eyes, not an improvement.  Within the standard system you have  "tenths" units if you wish. Anyone using CAD understands this. . I do find that the metric system is overly coarse when in the workshop, working with wood. "1/25th" of an inch is course when measuring real world objects. The ability to grab a scale that fits my needs is a plus.  I can choose from 1/16th, 32nd, or 64th or 100th in a ruler for example. I can even decide to go "simple coarse" and go metric. I like to have choice. I do not find the metric system's difficulty in dealing with geometry a plus. I would say if you are looking for simplicity choose one system, or at least stick to one system on any given project. Mixing them together is unwise. Luckily ratio was available to those building the great cathedrals or the Parthenon, not sure how the world would look if an arbitrary unit of measure with the limiting factors of 10 was all that was available to them. The best example of this is the golden ratio.

You can have ratios an fractions in metric if you wanted, just no one wants that. Besides you haven't been allowed to use fractions on prints for 50 odd years (ANSI/advent of computers).  If we could get everyone to do.  tenth based inches, things wouldn't be so bad, but even in 3 place people still expect to see .375 , .875 etc.  Not. .4.  .9 ,  if you put .4 on something folks then just assume you mean .375  and truncated it for tolerance.  It's all a mess and I live it every day at work as I work on decades old stuff mixed in with brand new stuff.  We (the engineering world) got rid of fractions because they are confusing and down right evil.  Again you can call out  1/2mm 1/4mm if you wanted to, just no one would, plus depending on the end customer of your documents it's not legal to have fractions except for calling out scales, which no one cares about anymore since no one is directly using the print to make a part anymore.

If there is anything in metric land to fix, it would be to get people to stop using Centimeters.  They are Metric, but not SI.  Sadly most metric tape measures I've seen are set up with cm markings, not mm or m markings, this makes reading one wrong very easy and I suspect a big reason some folks get tripped up with metric. 

Far as everything else, the general beauty with mm is .040" is just a bit bigger than tradition close tolerance of .030, and works out just find for wood working generally, and .1mm is .004" which is a thin piece of paper.  I'd say most folks are going to have a hard time working in and marking anything under a .5mm mark, and the pencil doing the marking is .5 or .7, so sticking to 1mm all the time works great.

 

[harry_]

But don't be afraid to dive in at some point. Inch based stuff will become less common with time, listed values will be more metric listed with time.

I was taught metric in the 4th grade, circa 1975. We children were told then it was just a matter of time.....

Now i'm 54. Time,....although I have way more of it than money, I no longer feel that it is on my side.

The primary reason I do not use metric is conversion.
Nothing around me, as a practical matter, is metric. None of my vendors or fellow trades people speak in metric.

Conversion, be it from metric to imperial or from one imperial fractional scale to another is the single most likely place to induce an error. The second being "burning the inch", which as a matter of practice, I never do. I always burn 10 inches. Why? Because burning 10 NEVER looks right when you lay it out wrong! Whereas a single inch can.

And for the record, no unit of measure is more accurate then another provided that unit has a standard. It is strictly about the convenience in doing the math.