Midi lathe dust collection

[mrFinpgh]

After wanting to get into turning for about 15 years, I finally have a midi lathe.  [smile]

I'm trying to now figure out exactly how I can use it without making a complete and total mess of things in my basement.

However, I know from experience that turning is a messy proposition most of the time.  I don't mind cleaning up afterwards, and I'm sure I can contain the debris with some strategically hung tarps, but I think dust collection/extraction may be a bigger challenge.

My current setup for dust collection is a Metabo ASR35 hepa vac running with a dust deputy, which I connect to all of my portable and benchtop tools. The only power tool I don't connect to is my dewalt planer, which I only run when I can set up the chip blower running out the egress doors and into a cloth filter bag.  A dust collector would be great, but I can barely walk through the basement as it is right now, so it's hard to see adding more large equipment down there.

I also have a homemade air cleaner based on a corsi-rosenthal box (like this).  That actually works quite well in getting the fine particle count down when it's running, according to my Dylos.

Lately, I've been more likely to wear a respirator even with the outstanding dust extraction of tools like my festool sanders.

So, I'm trying to determine whether it's possible to use the lathe without generating a big cloud of dust to go with it. Especially as my basement is not well isolated from the first floor (you can see right through the floorboards in some spots), so dust can float right up into the living space.  Are there approaches or strategies to containing the dust that would at least capture the finest stuff more effectively?  Should I be thinking about building a tent around it?  Some kind of means of shrinking the space around the work?  Blowing air strategically?

 

[luvmytoolz]

No amount of dust extraction will be super effective at containing the waste, and blowing air anywhere near a wood lathe will produce a very dramatic opposite effect of what you want. The lathe will produce copious amounts of dust and shavings, and will also spray them for several metres. The best thing I think is to be able to close off the area as much as possible, to try and "herd" the dust mainly in a set area.

I'm building another shed specifically for the lathe as I've given up on trying to keep the workshop even reasonably clean when the lathe is in use!

 

[woodferret]

Good thing it's only a midi.


Personally, I'd just stop at the stationary plexiglass safety cover.  Fine dust capture is good enough as it's easy enough to chase down the bigger chunks.  The tool-attached one might be nice to have on hand for roughing work though.

 

[mrFinpgh]

Personally, I'd just stop at the stationary plexiglass safety cover.  Fine dust capture is good enough as it's easy enough to chase down the bigger chunks.  The tool-attached one might be nice to have on hand for roughing work though.

I'm mainly interested in fine dust capture. I can clean up as much as I need to, but the stuff that poses a long-term health risk is the part that I need to figure out how to address. A family member just got diagnosed with lung cancer, so I'm probably more aware of the issue than usual.

I thought this was an interesting solution:


It's a much larger implementation and meant for bowls, but the ideal of enclosing the area around the workpiece seems like it should help to move more fines out of the air before they get too far.

No amount of dust extraction will be super effective at containing the waste, and blowing air anywhere near a wood lathe will produce a very dramatic opposite effect of what you want. The lathe will produce copious amounts of dust and shavings, and will also spray them for several metres. The best thing I think is to be able to close off the area as much as possible, to try and "herd" the dust mainly in a set area.

I'm intimately familiar w/ the lathe's ability to shoot chips/shavings everywhere. The last time I turned something, I had sawdust in my pockets afterwards!  It sounds like hanging a couple tarps would be useful in containing the cleanup area.

Do you use any kind of dust extraction on your lathe? 

 

[luvmytoolz]

I have the "Big Gulp" on my midi which is a wide mouth catcher hooked up the dusty, but I turn fairly aggressively using carbide tipped tools so the large amount of swarf created is thrown pretty energetically everywhere, the big gulp doesn't really do much. And when doing resin the situation is far worse as a long stream of resin swarf billows away from the lathe, and also all over you.

After I started turning I did build an enclosure around the lathe to contain the dust from the rear, sides and top, but I sorely underestimated how far and how much the swarf would travel during turning. It just goes everywhere.

If I was just doing very light turning the dusty and attachments would probably perform a lot better at keeping things neat, but i'm at the point now where dust extraction really doesn't cut it for the lathe, so I'll be buying a battery powered face shield like the Shield Pro or similar as I will be doing a great deal of turning.

And to avoid dust blowing into nook and cranny I am planning on building a new smaller shed just for the lathe to make cleanup much easier and more contained. I'll then probably make a custom scoop to try and suck in most of the swarf.

It's a tough one, turning is great fun, but the cleanup isn't so much. I'd consider some form of enclosure as I did to block off the sides, top and rear to at least limit the damage.

I'm not a fan of that hood in the video above, it greatly restricts movement, and I think it poses more of a danger than it helps. I wouldn't like to get my tool caught on the hood causing me to dig in suddenly or change the angle of cutting.

 

[thudchkr]

I don’t believe there is any way you’d be able to achieve effective dust control with only a dust extractor/vacuum. You’ll need a larger dust collector that moves much larger volumes of air to have a chance of catching even the fine stuff.

I use one of the big gulp hoods at the back side of my lathe and one of these dust collection shreds,https://toolsandmore.us/porter-cable-77244-dust-shroud.aspx , at the front.

They are connected to a 2hp cyclone dust collector that moves enough air to catch the finer sanding dust from the lathe. I’ve had good luck with it sucking up the long strings from turning plastics as well, but I’m typically doing small pen blanks. It definitely won’t catch the larger wood chips generated during most wood turning. Those end up getting the broom and shovel treatment, even though I have a floor sweep attachment next to the lathe. It’s easier to dump them directly into a trash can than to transfer them from the dust collector barrel to a trash can or bag.

When sanding with the dust collector running, you can see the stream of fine dust being sucked into the front dust collection shroud. I turn on a Nova DVR and fastened two small pieces of aluminum tubing to the underside of the bed for the mounting pins of the shroud to slide into.

 

[RussellS]

The best ideas given are 1.  Separate building for the turning.  2.  Ventilation hood/helmet/mask while turning.  3.  Tarps, curtains, enclosure to restrict the chips and maybe a little of the dust.  The danger is from the dust, not the chips.  Mainly sanding dust.  Not as much the dust created when scraping the wood with the tools when turning.

The first video on the small lathe probably does a good job.  But it would only work for small, short pieces.  Due to the volume of air needing to be moved and how you need to place the collection spots.  The second video by robo hippy of a big barrel around the turning would work in a fantasy world only.  I say fantasy because turners do not completely turn their work and then move to the sanding stage.  Unlike in regular woodworking where you cut and mill the parts, then sand separately.  With turning you turn the outside, sand the outside, then turn the inside, then sand the inside.  Then maybe reverse the bowl and use a jam chuck and turn and sand the foot.  Imagine trying to take that robo hippy barrel device on and off the lathe 2-3 times in the middle of turning a bowl.  But maybe with robo hippy, since he is a professional turner, he has a turning lathe and a sanding lathe.  And he goes through the added complication of taking the whole bowl and chuck from one lathe to the other multiple times during one turning.

If you watch Richard Raffan videos on YouTube you will see he has a dust collection system.  Sort of.  He has a big plywood hood a few inches behind the lathe that maybe some of the chips and dust fall into it.  If a PROfessional like him has not figured out a good way to get dust, that might be an indication there really isn't a good way to do it.

Above is a video of Richard Raffan turning a bowl.  While turning, he does not even have the dust collector running.  Maybe due to filming a video and not wanting the noise.  Maybe.  But you can see very few of the chips even fall into the dust hood.  Then he sands the foot and turns on the dust collector.  And then applies a finish too.  Then reverses the bowl in the chuck and turns the inside.  Then sands the interior and turns on the dust collector.  Then applies the inside finish.  Then he reverse chucks the bowl and turns off the foot.  Then sands the outside again, and turns on the dust collector again.  Then applies more finish to the outside.

So even a PROfessional like Richard Raffan has not figured out a great way to contain dust while woodturning.  I'm sure the vacuum helps a little while sanding, but not a huge amount.

 

[RussellS]

In this video Richard Raffan shows his dust collection system he uses for his lathe.  From about 5:30 to 9:15 in the video.  He mentions sanding several times while talking about it.

 

[squall_line]

Just a point of order if I may.

Being a professional woodworker/wood turner/cabinet maker does not automatically mean that a person uses dust collection or extraction any more than a hobbyist or amateur. 

It doesn't even mean that they use any more PPE than a hobbyist or amateur, for that matter.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Remarkably rudimentary setup RR is using these days.
Not that full extension drawer slides would increase his skill.

 

[RussellS]

Just a point of order if I may.

Being a professional woodworker/wood turner/cabinet maker does not automatically mean that a person uses dust collection or extraction any more than a hobbyist or amateur. 

It doesn't even mean that they use any more PPE than a hobbyist or amateur, for that matter.

True.  Many professional woodworkers do not use the safety guards on their table saws.  Or any hearing or eye protection.  But Richard Raffan is now 80 years old.  I suspect he has been turning for 60 of those years.  I am guessing he has learned something along the way and if he could make his life easier, better, he would likely have done it.  Such as dust collection on the lathe.  He is using a rudimentary method to collect the sanding dust.  I suspect he has figured out that is about the best that can be done.  Knowing all he does about turning.

 

[RussellS]

Remarkably rudimentary setup RR is using these days.
Not that full extension drawer slides would increase his skill.

He has a YouTube channel.  I have watched a few of his videos.  In several of them he mentioned downsizing in the past few years.  Getting a smaller Vicmarc lathe and fewer chucks.  And it looks like he has located to a small shed/building for his shop.  I looked him up and he is 80 years old now.  So he has probably figured out he has all he needs for turning and doesn't need anything fancier.

 

[ChuckM]

Still turning actively at 80? Good for him.

I wonder if I would still have the interest, let alone energy, at that age to woodwork actively. [scratch chin]