Mini circular saw?

Carroll, it's interesting to learn that the saw had a PC badge on it that far back,  I've seen these saws (and the famous PC door planer) with the Rockwell name on it, dating back into the late 60's.

We rarely use the 314 anymore in the shop.  Where it really has its value is in occasional  remodel situations where the TS won't fit or isn't practical.
 
Hey Peter, with all the stone counters in use today, I can't remember the last time I had to do a sink cut out, or even the last laminate countertop we installed!

I do distinctly remember the first time I did a sink cut out in a laminate countertop.  My boss sent me to do the installation by myself and i must have laid out that cut and double checked it a hundred times before getting the tools out.  This boss was a real character. He would send me to do jobs and only said "if you mess it up don't come back" .

Actually, it was a bit more colorful than that but for forum decorum I cleaned it up a bit.  [big grin]
 
yeah I started a new job this last week and the guy training me to cut the parts every once in awhile would say "don't F.... it up" I'm not quite used to dealing with tolerances of 1/32 or less when it comes to wood.
 
ccarrolladams said:
Funny that we are talking about the PC314. In January 2006 when I bought my first Festool TS55, I owned several circular saws, none plunge. The one I used the most was a PC314. I have no business records left showing when I bought it, but inside its metal case there is a decal from Thackerbery Power Tools on E Walnut Street in Pasadena. Although Thackerbery was primarily a dealer in metal working machines, they sold PC as well as Rockwell. When I bought my first home in Pasadena in 1953 I became a customer of Berg Hardware and Thackerbery. So I assume I have owned my PC314 since 1965.

Since I began using the TS55 I do not remember taking the 314 out of its case. I did so a few minutes ago and it still makes very good cuts for a worm drive. Of course it spreads dust everywhere!
Click to expand...

Please elaborate on the worm drive cut quality.  [popcorn]
 
Wait a minute, we went from discussing tiny saws like my Makita 5090 to the PC 314, which is a normal size trim saw and has a cord.

I bought my first Festool tracksaw around 25 years ago and had a PC 314 well before that. At that point the PC 314 was not rare but the tracksaw certainly was as the only reason I even knew of its existence was from an employee that had one.

As other have said, the PC 314 was a great tool but once you have a tracksaw, it becomes useful for few tasks. The tiny saws like the cordless Makita are also very useful for a very small number of tasks, mostly because they are cordless.

At one point my Festool tracksaw and the PC 314 disappeared. I couldn't get a replacement tracksaw fast enough as I believe that was still before there was more than one Festool dealer in the US. I bought another PC 314 because I could get it quickly but before I used it much I was able to recover my original PC 314.

I do have that almost-new PC 314 that is available to someone that appreciates it for what it is. You do need to be aware that Stanley Black & Decker gradually destroyed the quality of the later PC 314 saws and that one made in the last decade or so is junk compared to my almost-new one that is 15-20 years old, which seems the same quality as my 30+ year old one.

Do not think the PC 314 is a replacement for a Festool tracksaw even though Dino at Eurekazone tells you that it is the best saw for his system.
 
Well, too darn bad the discussion drifted to the PC314. That is how the FOG works.

I mention the cut quality of the PC314 because back in those days we generally associated worm drive with rough sawing, not for finish work.

Fred Thackerberry convinced me to try a relatively fine tooth blade on my PC314 when cutting plywood. That was one of the first carbide tipped blades I used on a hand saw. I also had a much larger Skil worm drive which I only used for framing and it only hand a HS steel cross-cut blade, With the PC314 I would switch from a HS steel to the carbide tips fine tooth just for cabinet grade veneer plywood.

Wow did those saws create clouds of saw dust!
 
Rob Z said:
Carroll, it's interesting to learn that the saw had a PC badge on it that far back,  I've seen these saws (and the famous PC door planer) with the Rockwell name on it, dating back into the late 60's.

We rarely use the 314 anymore in the shop.  Where it really has its value is in occasional  remodel situations where the TS won't fit or isn't practical.
Click to expand...

The way I remember it, way back circa 1960, PC made hand electric tools, especially routers and belt sanders, plus some circular saws. Rockwell made fixed machines, more for metal working than woodworking. Rockwell had an inexpensive vertical milling machine before Bridgeport gained market dominance.

What I do not remember was exactly when Rockwell and PC merged. But I am fairly sure all the hand electric tools were designed and made by PC originally. My PC314 is labeled PC and not Rockwell. I do not believe I ever bought hand tools with the Rockwell badge. I never bought the little Rockwell milling machine. I owned far larger and more capable Tree and B&S vertical and horizontal milling machines. By the time Bridgeport was respectable, NC (now CNC) machining had taken over.
 
ccarrolladams said:
Well, too darn bad the discussion drifted to the PC314. That is how the FOG works.

I mention the cut quality of the PC314 because back in those days we generally associated worm drive with rough sawing, not for finish work.

Fred Thackerberry convinced me to try a relatively fine tooth blade on my PC314 when cutting plywood. That was one of the first carbide tipped blades I used on a hand saw. I also had a much larger Skil worm drive which I only used for framing and it only hand a HS steel cross-cut blade, With the PC314 I would switch from a HS steel to the carbide tips fine tooth just for cabinet grade veneer plywood.

Wow did those saws create clouds of saw dust!
Click to expand...

While I love the cut quality of the PC314 even on thin skinned mahogany ply, Carroll is correct about the quantity of dust extracted at the user!

Jack
 
I have two,made by Exact,one has a blade about 2" the other has a blade about 4",they have quite a crude plunge system,but they work quite well
 
ccarrolladams said:
Rob Z said:
Carroll, it's interesting to learn that the saw had a PC badge on it that far back,  I've seen these saws (and the famous PC door planer) with the Rockwell name on it, dating back into the late 60's.

We rarely use the 314 anymore in the shop.  Where it really has its value is in occasional  remodel situations where the TS won't fit or isn't practical.
Click to expand...

The way I remember it, way back circa 1960, PC made hand electric tools, especially routers and belt sanders, plus some circular saws. Rockwell made fixed machines, more for metal working than woodworking. Rockwell had an inexpensive vertical milling machine before Bridgeport gained market dominance.

What I do not remember was exactly when Rockwell and PC merged. But I am fairly sure all the hand electric tools were designed and made by PC originally. My PC314 is labeled PC and not Rockwell. I do not believe I ever bought hand tools with the Rockwell badge. I never bought the little Rockwell milling machine. I owned far larger and more capable Tree and B&S vertical and horizontal milling machines. By the time Bridgeport was respectable, NC (now CNC) machining had taken over.
Click to expand...

Rockwell bought Porter Cable in 1960. Porter Cable history

The history of Rockwell is pretty analogous to the history of manufacturing in the US in the 20th Century.
 
Very interesting, Michael,

Does it say when Rockwell started switching the products from being identified as Porter-Cable to Rockwell? I ask because after 1960 tools still appeared to be Porter-Cable.
 
Michael,

Thanks for the link to the Porter Cable story.  I find it very interesting that the Model 100 router was such a big part of it's woodworking line.  I purchased one of these about 35 years ago and several years later when I took a short chair building seminar with Sam Maloof, I found that he used one also but, he didn't give it the same loving care I had using mine.  Sam often routed a chair joint and flipped the switch off and threw the router to the bench still ruining.

Jack
 
Sam was great - I had the pleasure of taking a course from him at Anderson Ranch in the late 80's including a nice dinner with him.

His use of the router and the bandsaw was a bit risky as he cut the shapes of his chair pieces as well as routing the special joinery that he came up for attaching the legs and arms. 

Back to PC - I had a model 100 PC but got rid of it when I jumped to Festool a few years back. It is amazing how far PC has fallen from the early days.  I still have a Model 503
3 x 24 sander and it is a beast.  I think it was around $350 or $400 years ago and runs like a tank.

neil
 
ccarrolladams said:
Very interesting, Michael,

Does it say when Rockwell started switching the products from being identified as Porter-Cable to Rockwell? I ask because after 1960 tools still appeared to be Porter-Cable.
Click to expand...

When you think of classic Porter Cable you're thinking of the designs of Art Emmons who was hired as chief engineer when he was 21 and stayed with the company for a good 40 years, retiring a few years after Rockwell took the reigns. It could be said that Emmons really developed the idea of portable electric power tools, taking the tool to the work, the concept at the heart of Festool's product range.

To their credit Rockwell didn't screw-up the PC products right away, (at least they waited for Emmons to retire) just replaced the name tag. It could have taken years for old inventory of PC labeled stock to be sold. Back then a good tool design wasn't scrapped for the sake of fashion so a "new old stock" PC tool would be just as good as a Rockwell Int. tool.

 
I too have the PC314 with the metal box. Nice little saw, I just don't use it much anymore. Might sell.
 
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