minimum spec for new pc

[Dan Clark]

When you use multiple Apple products in unison, the sum of the parts exceed ...

Look where things will go with iCloud ... seamless access to your docs from iPhone, iPad, iMac, MacBook, etc ... yes it's still maturing and mobile me was a bit dodgy.

Agreed, Apple is more than singular products, its a whole eco-system and if one buys into it as a whole, it probably provides one of the most seamless experiences available at the moment.. that said there is a certain amount of control that you loose which may not suit everyone/people may not fell comfortable.

I use Apple for consumer/entertainment, for business other platforms to ensure control of data an ensure abstraction from any specific vendor, jurisdiction etc

I have two servers, three desktop-style workstations, and two laptops - all PC and all running Win7/64.  I also have two iPhones and two iPads.  I've been writing code for 40 years and am currently a contract software developer.  My feedback...

- Don't buy HP.  The consumer versions sold by companies like BestBuy are decontented and full of crapware.

- I don't like Dell, but it has more to do with their support, or lack thereof.

- For PC's, Lenovo laptops (I have one) are great business  tools.  Highly recommended.

- The vast majority of negative comments about "Windows" are old tapes - people still complain about XP and Vista.  Win7 is extremely stable and solid.  I haven't had a crash on any of my systems since I installed Win7.  In fact, the early Beta versions of Win7 were FAR more stable then the production versions of Vista (which was junk). 

- iPads are great tools.  But they specialize in content consumption.  They are inferior to laptops for content creation.  I'm writing this on my iPad2 using a Logitech wireless keyboard.  I use this combo because it's convenient and flexible.  However, iOS is extremely monitor centric and does NOT have good keyboard integration.  For example, standard keyboard conventions like Delete to delete the prior word does not work.  Finger strokes are fine for gross-level selections and manipulations, but a mouse and other hand devices provide much finer level control.  For CAD and other design work, the iPad is simply too slow and clumsy to be productive.  I love my iPad, but I realize it's limitations.

With all of the above, I'd recommend you buy a good Laptop from Lenovo IF, repeat IF, you have a lot of PC software and content that you want to reuse.  OTOH...

If you have no reason to look back, I'd suggest an Apple laptop.  An Apple computer is NOT superior to a current PCs, regardless of what the fanbois say.  However, they are very good computers and, like Festool, they are part of an overall integrated system.  They have components that integrate easily and seamlessly into a total solution.  It's the integration that makes them special.

Regardless of what you buy, you'll probably be using it for years.  Try to get something that will last and is expandable.

Regards,

Dan.

 

[Kev]

When you use multiple Apple products in unison, the sum of the parts exceed ...

Look where things will go with iCloud ... seamless access to your docs from iPhone, iPad, iMac, MacBook, etc ... yes it's still maturing and mobile me was a bit dodgy.

Agreed, Apple is more than singular products, its a whole eco-system and if one buys into it as a whole, it probably provides one of the most seamless experiences available at the moment.. that said there is a certain amount of control that you loose which may not suit everyone/people may not fell comfortable.

I use Apple for consumer/entertainment, for business other platforms to ensure control of data an ensure abstraction from any specific vendor, jurisdiction etc

I have two servers, three desktop-style workstations, and two laptops - all PC and all running Win7/64.   I also have two iPhones and two iPads.  I've been writing code for 40 years and am currently a contract software developer.  My feedback...

- Don't buy HP.  The consumer versions sold by companies like BestBuy are decontented and full of crapware.

- I don't like Dell, but it has more to do with their support, or lack thereof.

- For PC's, Lenovo laptops (I have one) are great business  tools.  Highly recommended.

- The vast majority of negative comments about "Windows" are old tapes - people still complain about XP and Vista.  Win7 is extremely stable and solid.   I haven't had a crash on any of my systems since I installed Win7.  In fact, the early Beta versions of Win7 were FAR more stable then the production versions of Vista (which was junk). 

- iPads are great tools.  But they specialize in content consumption.  They are inferior to laptops for content creation.   I'm writing this on my iPad2 using a Logitech wireless keyboard.  I use this combo because it's convenient and flexible.  However, iOS is extremely monitor centric and does NOT have good keyboard integration.  For example, standard keyboard conventions like Delete to delete the prior word does not work.   Finger strokes are fine for gross-level selections and manipulations, but a mouse and other hand devices provide much finer level control.   For CAD and other design work, the iPad is simply too slow and clumsy to be productive.   I love my iPad, but I realize it's limitations.

With all of the above, I'd recommend you buy a good Laptop from Lenovo IF, repeat IF, you have a lot of PC software and content that you want to reuse.   OTOH...

If you have no reason to look back, I'd suggest an Apple laptop.   An Apple computer is NOT superior to a current PCs, regardless of what the fanbois say.  However, they are very good computers and, like Festool, they are part of an overall integrated system.   They have components that integrate easily and seamlessly into a total solution.  It's the integration that makes them special.

Regardless of what you buy, you'll probably be using it for years.   Try to get something that will last and is expandable.

Regards,

Dan.

Original poison ??

RPG, Cobol, PL1 ? or were you down the Fortran and Assembler end of te chain ?

Got to say I don't miss the days of digging through mountains of fan fold, pulling apart hex core dumps  [eek]

 

[dltflt]

+1 for a Mac

 

[linusab]

-1 for a Mac..

Or ask James Bond: http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/06/21/article-2006317-0CAA798200000578-497_468x560.jpg

 

[jmbfestool]

I got the 64gb with wifi+3G
I have only used 3rd of the memory and I have never used the 3G on it.
I'm using it now to type this message in bed  [big grin]
Jmb

Why am I not surprised you got the best

On a more serious note, its easy to end up spending quite a lot on 3G contracts across devices, so worth looking at getting one good 3G contract and a device that supports tethering. I have a wifi iPad and swtich on tethering on my iPhone. The iPhone acts as a wifi hotspot, and I can use my iPad plus laptop at the same time, basically using the phone as a wifi attached modem

heehee! Of course! I know if I had bought the lower models I would just regret it I always do! 

I ain't bothered with a contract I got a orange sim card with it but then never used it was pointless.   

Doing the iphone hotspot idea I believe is the best way if u wanna save money.  No point having multiple contracts is der.

JMB

 

[woodguy7]

That Sean Connery letter is class  [thumbs up]. Well, if it's genuine that is  ;D

 

[GhostFist]

I think it's been confirmed as a fake. Funny as heck though

 

[Dan Clark]

When you use multiple Apple products in unison, the sum of the parts exceed ...

Look where things will go with iCloud ... seamless access to your docs from iPhone, iPad, iMac, MacBook, etc ... yes it's still maturing and mobile me was a bit dodgy.

Agreed, Apple is more than singular products, its a whole eco-system and if one buys into it as a whole, it probably provides one of the most seamless experiences available at the moment.. that said there is a certain amount of control that you loose which may not suit everyone/people may not fell comfortable.

I use Apple for consumer/entertainment, for business other platforms to ensure control of data an ensure abstraction from any specific vendor, jurisdiction etc

I have two servers, three desktop-style workstations, and two laptops - all PC and all running Win7/64.   I also have two iPhones and two iPads.  I've been writing code for 40 years and am currently a contract software developer.  My feedback...

- Don't buy HP.  The consumer versions sold by companies like BestBuy are decontented and full of crapware.

- I don't like Dell, but it has more to do with their support, or lack thereof.

- For PC's, Lenovo laptops (I have one) are great business  tools.  Highly recommended.

- The vast majority of negative comments about "Windows" are old tapes - people still complain about XP and Vista.  Win7 is extremely stable and solid.   I haven't had a crash on any of my systems since I installed Win7.  In fact, the early Beta versions of Win7 were FAR more stable then the production versions of Vista (which was junk). 

- iPads are great tools.  But they specialize in content consumption.  They are inferior to laptops for content creation.   I'm writing this on my iPad2 using a Logitech wireless keyboard.  I use this combo because it's convenient and flexible.  However, iOS is extremely monitor centric and does NOT have good keyboard integration.  For example, standard keyboard conventions like Delete to delete the prior word does not work.   Finger strokes are fine for gross-level selections and manipulations, but a mouse and other hand devices provide much finer level control.   For CAD and other design work, the iPad is simply too slow and clumsy to be productive.   I love my iPad, but I realize it's limitations.

With all of the above, I'd recommend you buy a good Laptop from Lenovo IF, repeat IF, you have a lot of PC software and content that you want to reuse.   OTOH...

If you have no reason to look back, I'd suggest an Apple laptop.   An Apple computer is NOT superior to a current PCs, regardless of what the fanbois say.  However, they are very good computers and, like Festool, they are part of an overall integrated system.   They have components that integrate easily and seamlessly into a total solution.  It's the integration that makes them special.

Regardless of what you buy, you'll probably be using it for years.   Try to get something that will last and is expandable.

Regards,

Dan.

Original poison ??

RPG, Cobol, PL1 ? or were you down the Fortran and Assembler end of te chain ?

Got to say I don't miss the days of digging through mountains of fan fold, pulling apart hex core dumps  [eek]

Fortran and assembler path.  COBOL is for wimps!  [smile]. Fanfold is for real men.  Kill them trees, I say!  You haven't lived until you've seen someone drop a full two-foot box of computer cards all over the floor.   Yep, them were the days! 

NOT!!!  So you've spent 20 hours sweating over a simple program, hand it to the friendly RJE attendant, finally receive your output 36 HOURS later...  Only to receive a notification that you missed a comma somewhere.   [eek]. Only real men and idiots programmed back in those days.  Either you could endure massive pain or you were a masochist.  Since I've just spent the last five years rebuilding my master bathroom, I'll give you one guess which I category I fit in back then.   [cool]

Regards,

Dan.

 

[Kev]

When you use multiple Apple products in unison, the sum of the parts exceed ...

Look where things will go with iCloud ... seamless access to your docs from iPhone, iPad, iMac, MacBook, etc ... yes it's still maturing and mobile me was a bit dodgy.

Agreed, Apple is more than singular products, its a whole eco-system and if one buys into it as a whole, it probably provides one of the most seamless experiences available at the moment.. that said there is a certain amount of control that you loose which may not suit everyone/people may not fell comfortable.

I use Apple for consumer/entertainment, for business other platforms to ensure control of data an ensure abstraction from any specific vendor, jurisdiction etc

I have two servers, three desktop-style workstations, and two laptops - all PC and all running Win7/64.   I also have two iPhones and two iPads.  I've been writing code for 40 years and am currently a contract software developer.  My feedback...

- Don't buy HP.  The consumer versions sold by companies like BestBuy are decontented and full of crapware.

- I don't like Dell, but it has more to do with their support, or lack thereof.

- For PC's, Lenovo laptops (I have one) are great business  tools.  Highly recommended.

- The vast majority of negative comments about "Windows" are old tapes - people still complain about XP and Vista.  Win7 is extremely stable and solid.   I haven't had a crash on any of my systems since I installed Win7.  In fact, the early Beta versions of Win7 were FAR more stable then the production versions of Vista (which was junk). 

- iPads are great tools.  But they specialize in content consumption.  They are inferior to laptops for content creation.   I'm writing this on my iPad2 using a Logitech wireless keyboard.  I use this combo because it's convenient and flexible.  However, iOS is extremely monitor centric and does NOT have good keyboard integration.  For example, standard keyboard conventions like Delete to delete the prior word does not work.   Finger strokes are fine for gross-level selections and manipulations, but a mouse and other hand devices provide much finer level control.   For CAD and other design work, the iPad is simply too slow and clumsy to be productive.   I love my iPad, but I realize it's limitations.

With all of the above, I'd recommend you buy a good Laptop from Lenovo IF, repeat IF, you have a lot of PC software and content that you want to reuse.   OTOH...

If you have no reason to look back, I'd suggest an Apple laptop.   An Apple computer is NOT superior to a current PCs, regardless of what the fanbois say.  However, they are very good computers and, like Festool, they are part of an overall integrated system.   They have components that integrate easily and seamlessly into a total solution.  It's the integration that makes them special.

Regardless of what you buy, you'll probably be using it for years.   Try to get something that will last and is expandable.

Regards,

Dan.

Original poison ??

RPG, Cobol, PL1 ? or were you down the Fortran and Assembler end of te chain ?

Got to say I don't miss the days of digging through mountains of fan fold, pulling apart hex core dumps  [eek]

Fortran and assembler path.  COBOL is for wimps!  [smile]. Fanfold is for real men.  Kill them trees, I say!  You haven't lived until you've seen someone drop a full two-foot box of computer cards all over the floor.   Yep, them were the days! 

NOT!!!  So you've spent 20 hours sweating over a simple program, hand it to the friendly RJE attendant, finally receive your output 36 HOURS later...  Only to receive a notification that you missed a comma somewhere.   [eek]. Only real men and idiots programmed back in those days.  Either you could endure massive pain or you were a masochist.  Since I've just spent the last five years rebuilding my master bathroom, I'll give you one guess which I category I fit in back then.   [cool]

Regards,

Dan.

I hope that was 4 years of requirements gathering, 6 months of project ramp up, 1 month of rebuilding, 3 months of functional testing, 1 month of implementation and 1 month of review .... Otherwise you weren't doing it right.

During the 1 month of actual rebuilding, you should also have had at least 5 design changes and a major resource reallocation !

These days your average developer wouldn't know what a bubble sort was - let alone comprehend that loading a program involved loading a stack of cards in a hopper.

 

[fdengel]

So that's ....... 9 laptops. Average life span  1year    Average price of laptops. £800 to £1200

I'm typing this on a PowerBook G4...  the last model of PowerBook G4 hit the market in 2005, then Apple switched to Intel processors and went to MacBooks instead.

Seven years and still in use... get a Mac.

 

[jmbfestool]

So that's ....... 9 laptops. Average life span  1year    Average price of laptops. £800 to £1200

I'm typing this on a PowerBook G4...  the last model of PowerBook G4 hit the market in 2005, then Apple switched to Intel processors and went to MacBooks instead.

Seven years and still in use... get a Mac.

you telling me to get a mac??  I have a Imac and a MacBook pro and a iPad.    My post was only intended to show Alan how poor laptops are and are not worth the money due to their poor life span.  Okay you get what you pay for but a laptop for £1200 I would of thought was enough money for a decent laptop!  You can get an MacBook air for that price! 

I wouldn't bother with a laptop ever again waist of money totally!  The only decent laptop we have had was my DAD's DELL laptop but that was £3600.  Now if your needing to spend that much for a decent laptop then a think an apple computer are cheap cus u can get them for far less with a longer life span.

Jmb

 

[fdengel]

Again, I'm typing this on a (Mac) laptop that is maybe 6-7 years old.

Laptops are likely to be abused more than desktops because they are more portable, so of course they won't last as long.

On the other hand, I'd hate to lug my big heavy Mac Pro from place to place every day if I need to have a computer when I'm not home.

It depends on your requirements.

 

[RC]

Heh, the only Mac I haven't been able to cost justify has been the Mac Pro - That's the reason I still have a single Win7 computer at home to do heavy compute tasks like Full HD video effects and Bluray conversion... My 'dream machine' Mac Pro would run a el Cheapo price of 13k$ so that's a no go for a home user in any situation...  [eek]

It's been an interesting discussion on Mac vs. PC vs. iPad, but I think we've sort of slid off Alan's original question on what's a reasonable minimum spec...

Alan, you need to basically decide on whether you need mobility -> laptop vs. desktop and then how much you are prepared to spend on the machine and then see what can you get for the $X you're prepared to spend and either choose something that's in the price frame you pre-decided or save up and get what you want. Also as was stated earlier if you have specific needs to run a certain application that's only available on one or the other platform (Mac vs. PC) you might be limited by that.

From a purely technical perspective I would say that prioritise something that has at a minimum quad core Intel Core i7 CPU, preferably >=2.4GHz, as much RAM memory as you can afford (I've got 8GB and I'm running regularly out of it, so 12-24GB with today's RAM prices is totally reasonable), prefer a solid state disk (SSD) over rotating disks in hard drives - minimum 256GB of capacity or more if you do DSLR photography in RAW or home videos in Full HD, if you go the Windows route and do photo & video edit on the computer I'd get an Nvidia GPU with atleast 1GB of memory so that Adobe PhotoShop/Premier Pro can utilize CUDA hardware accelleration (768MB minimum requirement and a compatible GPU model - I'm happy with my Geforce GTX 560 Ti/1024MB and Adobe Creative Suite 5.5, note that CUDA accelleration is not available on Mac's since they use ATI GPU's). Also having USB v3.0 ports in your computer (Mac's would use Thunderbolt instead) won't hurt since doing backups to an external USB v3.0/Thunderbolt drive will impress you to no end with it's speed.

If you have $3000 to spend I would go for a 15" Mac Pro laptop which has 8GB memory, a 256GB SSD hard drive and a 2.4GHz Core i7 CPU and anti-glare display (Apple store quotes $3049 for this)

If you aren't prepared to spend that kind of money you could have a look at Lenovo W520 for about $2120 for a comparable PC with Windows 7 64-bit.

Else I would look into getting a good desktop computer if you need to go cheaper or look at iPad's if you are only going to consume media and not create anything. 

 

[Alan m]

an i pad looks in buget. . you say it cant create stuff  only show it. could i use it for basic excell , creating formualaes and inputting data

 

[RC]

While you certainly can create stuff like write documents in Pages, do basic 'excel' sheets in Numbers and presentation in Keynote I would not recommend an iPad for doing it on a regular basis.

One problem is the input which as a touch based system is cumbersome when playing with small cells in an spreadsheet or formatting a document. You can work around some of this by getting an bluetooth keyboard from Apple to make typing easier and more wrist friendly, but you will still lack rudimentary commands you are accustomed to on a full-blown computer like CTRL+C, etc short cuts.

Also even if you have an external keyboard you will still need to position the pointer on screen by tapping the devices screen with your fingers which is less than optimal i.e. no mouse support that I know of  [sad]

I happily write the occational tweet & email on my iPad but you won't catch me doing spreadsheets on it any time soon - I appreciate my wrists and carpal tunnels more than that  [tongue]

If you are limited to an iPad 2 like budget of around $600-800 and still have usable monitor, keyboard & mouse from your old computer I would also have a hard look at a Mac Mini as a desktop option if you don't have Windows specific application needs.

 

[Alan m]

While you certainly can create stuff like write documents in Pages, do basic 'excel' sheets in Numbers and presentation in Keynote I would not recommend an iPad for doing it on a regular basis.

One problem is the input which as a touch based system is cumbersome when playing with small cells in an spreadsheet or formatting a document. You can work around some of this by getting an bluetooth keyboard from Apple to make typing easier and more wrist friendly, but you will still lack rudimentary commands you are accustomed to on a full-blown computer like CTRL+C, etc short cuts.

Also even if you have an external keyboard you will still need to position the pointer on screen by tapping the devices screen with your fingers which is less than optimal i.e. no mouse support that I know of  [sad]

I happily write the occational tweet & email on my iPad but you won't catch me doing spreadsheets on it any time soon - I appreciate my wrists and carpal tunnels more than that  [tongue]

If you are limited to an iPad 2 like budget of around $600-800 and still have usable monitor, keyboard & mouse from your old computer I would also have a hard look at a Mac Mini as a desktop option if you don't have Windows specific application needs.

ok so thts the end of that idea

 

[jmbfestool]

an i pad looks in buget. . you say it cant create stuff  only show it. could i use it for basic excell , creating formualaes and inputting data

Like Mentioned!    The Ipad can do basic exell etc but its not the tool for the job and I would personal prefer to use a computer for that kinda of work!       ITs best for looking at pictures/videos!  Browsing the internet. Playing games!  and having certain types of apps to help for certain jobs like!  Roof calculator , spindle spacer apps etc   Also a decent SatNav on hand aswell!  Although you have to pay like £15/25 for the app! Still cheap than the TomTom! 

JMB

 

[Kev]

iPad is a good device for creating content that's appropriate for the device type itself.

This may sound a bit confused, but when you look at some of the cooler apps for the iPad and get to use them, you'll understand what I mean.

You can also get a stylus that works well with the iPad and a few of the sketching apps are quite brilliant.

Make the right app choices and you can do things like take a photo with the iPad (as long as there's lots of light) import it into a sketching program and play with ideas with a client. Fire up a doc in Numbers with a format you've already create and plug in some values for a quote. Export your sketches and price into an email and send it to the client ... and you're still there on the spot.

You'll also find some simple time billing and invoicing apps for the iPad, but I don't rate any of them yet as truly useful (but they'll improve).

You're not going to build a detailed schematic on an iPad with CAD tools, you probably won't do your book keeping ... but it has it's uses.

Kev.

 

[Alan m]

i was just about to buy the ipad when i saw that the ipad3 will be released soon. . what should i do. is it likely to be on time . will the be any glitchs needing sorting

 

[jmbfestool]

i was just about to buy the ipad when i saw that the ipad3 will be released soon. . what should i do. is it likely to be on time . will the be any glitchs needing sorting

I would wait!  Thats what I am doing!  I got Ipad1 and didnt bother with Ipad2  waist of time an money if you already OWNED a Ipad1 wasnt enough extra features for me to swap over.  Hope Ipad 3 will have if not ill wait for Ipad4  [big grin]