Miter Saw and Crown Molding

[pmarcusm]

Hey Guys,

My wife wants crown molding and wants me to do it. I like the idea because that means I get a new miter saw, but the bad news is it won't be a Kapex.

So there is the purpose of this topic.

I really can't justify the Kapex, even with the 10% off right now. I want to get some opinions on other brands and models that would be a good choice for the molding and general use around the shop. I obviously care about the cost, but I also know there are plenty of other saws in a more moderate price range, but don't limit your opinion based price. I know that sound oxymoron, but I can probably pull off $500 with the wife, but not $1400, even though she does appreciate the green addiction that her husband has for the good stuff and does realize the coolness factor

Marcus

 

[sae]

Some Home Depots still might have the Bosch 12" glide saw in store from the Black Friday sale.

They've been as low as $599, they were all $799 a few months back.

I've had mine for about 6 months now, it's a joy to use. The Festool vac fits and improves dust collection dramatically, you can also retrofit the Kapex dust shroud which helps it stop collapsing under suction.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Bosch-15-Amp-12-in-Dual-Bevel-Glide-Miter-Saw-GCM12SD/202568455
http://www.tool-home.com/products/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/25265

 

[Grasshopper]

Something you could consider when you justify a purchase like this is resale.

If you simply want the tool for this project, you could purchase the Kapex and resell when you are finished.  Prior to the 10% off promotion, folks here were asking $1200 for a used Kapex (I saw one sell on craigslist which they asked $1200).  Personally, that boggles the mind that the resale is that high.  Once the promotion is over, and pricing adjusts, you could in theory sell a used Kapex very nearly what you paid for it new.

Potentially a pretty cheap rental.

My two cents.

If you plan to keep the saw forever and Kapex is truly off the table, you need to focus on what size capacity you need.  Personally, I'd avoid cutting on the flat and look at a saw that would enable you to cut crown in place.  This can help narrow your focus.  A 10" saw tends to have less deflection, which can lead to tighter miters ("tighter miters" sounds like an infomercial product  ;D).  If you could get a 10" size to work with your crown, you may consider used if cost is an issue.  Folks swear by the older 10" hitachi's (and they tend to dislike the newer version).  Bosch seems to be a brand folks can "settle" on when they look hard at the Kapex.

I actually purchased a 12" Dewalt slider and never got it out of the box.  I ended up with the kapex thinking beyond my first project that I'd kick myself.  I love making cuts in our spare bedroom without sawdust spewing everywhere.  Miters are tight as can be, which makes me smile.  Ultimately folks do fine with other brands too, or even a hand saw and box miter setup.  It is really about the person operating the saw more than the saw itself. 

Good luck with your journey, and be sure to post pictures.

 

[Birdhunter]

Two inputs....

First, If you plan to use the miter saw indoors, you won't be happy with anything but a Kapex/dust collector. My non-scientific measurements point to 80% dust collection with the Kapex vs 20% with my prior top-of-the-line miter saw.

Second, look at the Kreg crown molding jig. Great tool for those not very experienced in cutting accurate crown joints.

 

[justinh]

I prefer a 12" fixed miter saw for trim.  I use a DeWalt 716 because of it's capacity for cutting in position.  I use a fixed saw because the head does not slide eliminating the side to side play in the rails.  Blade deflection on a 12" saw can be all but eliminated by running standard kerf blades.  I run high quality industrial blades designed for art framing.  The blade is every bit as important as the saw.  It is what actually does the cutting.  All the saw does is spin the blade.  Almost any professional grade saw can be adjusted to spin the blade accurately.  The blades I run are usually in the $200 range but there are decent full kerf blades available for less that would likely suit your purposes.  If you would like a recommendation I would be happy to offer one.

For a stop to hold the moulding a simple scrap of wood clamped continuously at the correct distance from the fence to support the moulding works very well.  An example is pictured below.

The stand is also important.  I use a design with continuous wings to support the work.

 

[pmarcusm]

So far, I am getting some really good input. I do like the idea of buy the Kapex use it and the sell it, but the sell part would never happen! I will say that I want something that will serve me well after the molding is installed. I really only have three rooms worth, so I will end up using it for other projects as well.

Yes, Justinh, I would like a recommendation for a blade. I alway like suggestions for good tool. Probably why I buy the green machines and love using them. I do brag about them too!

Thanks Guys!!

Marcus

 

[justinh]

For a blade based on function and price I would recommend an Amana A.G.E. MD12-106 (12"-100t) or MD12-816 (12"-80t) in a fixed miter saw.  The geometry on these is not ideal for sliding saws.  For function and edge life I would recommend the FS Tool LM6300 or SM6300 (Both 12" 100t). These excel in fixed miter saws.  Both brands have heavy plates to resist deflection under load. I prefer the FS Tool blades and they are usually on my saw. In a slider I prefer lower tooth count blades as they offer less resistance but still look for the heaviest plate available.

I see guys argue the virtues and features of one saw vs another or one brand vs another but the fact remains that the blade still does the cutting.  A top quality blade can take an average saw to another level of quality and the carpenter running the saw still determines the accuracy it is set and used at.  There are features of certain saws that set them apart but it is up the end user to determine whether those features will be advantageous to them and make them more money or if the features are cool but have little impact on their bottom line.

A fixed 12" miter saw is very versatile. Only you know what your further use for the saw after the project will be.  I own sliding miter saws in both 10" and 12" sizes and use them when necessary but prefer fixed.  If I need to cut mouldings on the flat I prefer a 10".  The 12" slider was purchased for one ceiling, in one room, on one job to cut acute angles in position on crown for a coffer.  I use it when then capacity is needed or if I will be set up on a job for a prolonged period of time with a lot of varied work requiring both tall vertical and wide cross cut capacity.  If you are cutting inside then I would recommend hooking whatever saw you end up with to a vacuum and adding one of FastCap's saw hoods. 

To me they are all just tools.  There are certain manufacturers I will look to first when purchasing and there are others I don't even consider.  I prefer to buy a basic saw that meets my needs and fits the way I work, put a quality blade on it, and tune it to the tolerances I work to.

 

[tiralie]

I prefer a 12" fixed miter saw for trim.

Agreed. A fixed miter saw is cheaper and can produce results as good or better than most sliders.

I prefer a 10" and used a Delta fixed miter saw for years.

The blade is every bit as important as the saw.  It is what actually does the cutting.  All the saw does is spin the blade.  Almost any professional grade saw can be adjusted to spin the blade accurately.  The blades I run are usually in the $200 range but there are decent full kerf blades available for less that would likely suit your purposes. 

Agreed, better blades has such an affect on the accuracy and cut quality it's like you are using a completely different saw.

For a stop to hold the moulding a simple scrap of wood clamped continuously at the correct distance from the fence to support the moulding works very well.  An example is pictured below.

The stand is also important.  I use a design with continuous wings to support the work.

Agreed, particularly using MDF crown. Properly supported material allows you to not only cut more accurately but it's safer and faster.