Modifying an Incra Flip Shop Stop for better micro-adjust

[smorgasbord]

I don't know if many here use Incra rails with their flip stop on a miter saw station or cross-cut sled like I do. I really like the racks for accurate and repeatable lengths (I'm using the red metric 1mm racks), but there are times when one needs to cut on a half mm or trim something off multiple pieces.

The built-in micro-adjuster is a really bad design:
[attachimg=1]

Not only is it inconvenient (you have to loosen two cap screws on top then turn the adjuster screw, then lock-down), it also messes with your calibration in that if you don't remember exactly how much you turned the adjuster you'll have some trial and error to get it back to be on the mm (or 1/32") stops.

The Flip Shop Stop has two arms separated by just under 100mm. Incra advertises it as two stops in one, but that's pretty silly unless your two different parts are within 100mm of each other. Luckily, they include a ¼" diameter bar that can be attached to both stop arms, and in this configuration it's extremely solid with no discernible flex (there's very little flex even on a single arm but with both it's rock solid). You can slide this rod out to get different lengths than the rack measurement, but there's no calibration.

So, what I did is get a 7mmx1mm tap and cut threads where the rod goes:
[attachimg=2]

Then I threaded in a short 7mm cap screw from the far side and cut the ¼" rod down so it doesn't protrude with the cap screw not inserted all the way:
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]

Now I can loosen the ¼" rod (thumb screws), and turn the cap screw a calibrated amount (1 turn = 1mm) to push the rod out for micro-adjust. I painted some white lines at 0.25mm on the cap screw.

I could also put the cap screw in the other side so it's always protruding and then micro-adjust would just be turning that screw. But, I don't particularly like the idea of always registering on the cap screw (think angled ends), so that probably won't be my default mode of operation.

Now, the 7mm tap in a 6.4mm hole that isn't even a full hole isn't the most secure. I'm wondering if an 8mm tap might be better, or if I need to fill in the open hole with epoxy and redrill or something. Any thoughts?

One more image:
[attachimg=5]

 

[Mini Me]

I agree with your comments and I have decided to sell mine on my mitre saw and go to digital. I was having a look at DRO's on Alixpress and the DRO's I have been using (M503) are under $50 which is stupid cheap and down $50 from a year ago.

 

[smorgasbord]

DROs can be great - I have one on my tablesaw rip fence and on my drum sander - but the Incra setup is both accurate measurement AND support. With the DRO you still need to figure out a fence and a flip stop implementation. On my miter saw, I can attach a sacrificial MDF cube directly to the Incra fence (losing the stock fence, btw), and that's been truly great. If I went DRO on my mitersaw I'd have to make/acquire a new fence, figure out a flip stop, figure out the replaceable insert attachment AND figure out how to attach the DRO to all that. At this point, for me on the mitersaw anyway, sticking with the Incra fence/stop and just solving a micro-adjust problem was the way to go. YMMV.

On my tablesaw crosscut sled, I'm going to remove the MDF front face I have on the fence in those photos. With mitered ends, the way the Incra flip stop notches into the face of the fence is really nice, and I like taking advantage of that on the mitersaw, so will do the same on the crosscut sled.

Besides, I have a project underway for my crosscut sled that I believe will result in fabulous angular accuracy. And plans for a version that can be adapted for Track Saw/MFT use as well. Both require a back fence of some sort, so something like the Incra Fence Extrusion or a Benchdogs UK fence are perfect for this. More to come later I hope.

 

[demographic]

I really like the Incra rack (in metric) but what really irritates me is the way all the other fixings on the system are imperial.
Its sort of metric at the user interface but imperial everywhere else so in order to modify a part I need bolts measured in sheckles, groats and barleycorns; )

My Dewalt router has a height adjustment thats the same. It's got an adjustment ring with metric graduations on a half inch pitch thread.
One full revolution is half an inch of height adjustment but if they'd made that pitch 10mm the numbers going rount the adjustment ring would work far and away better.

For me a significant improvement to Incras metric tooling would be to be properly metric.
Oh and yes, that microadjust is pretty crap, I'm looking for a larger diameter knob to put ten lines around its periphery in order to make it more repeatable.

 

[Mini Me]

If I went DRO on my mitersaw I'd have to make/acquire a new fence, figure out a flip stop, figure out the replaceable insert attachment AND figure out how to attach the DRO to all that.

Someone had done all that for you so there is no need to invent anything just copy and paste

 

[smorgasbord]

Someone had done all that for you so there is no need to invent anything just copy and paste

You must have a better computer than me. I keep hitting Control-C and Control-V, but nothing new appears in my shop. [unsure]
Since you claim it's so easy, I look forward to seeing your upcoming thread next week on your miter saw station DRO.

Seriously though, this is a thread about modifying an Incra flip stop for better micro-adjust. If you don't have or weren't considering an Incra flip stop, this thread isn't for you. My mod cost me a few minutes and under $10. I'm still improving it, btw.

As for that Hooked On Wood video:
1) You must have a different definition of "all that" than I do. For instance, Dennis's design doesn't have a flip stop. I use the flip action all the time on my miter saw - trim one end with the stop flipped up, then flip the board and flip the stop down to cut the other end to length. With Dennis's design, he has to move it out of the way, trim one end, then move it back in again, and do the tap-tap-tap thing to repeat the measurement to cut to length. He probably alters his workflow to do as much of the initial trimming in batch mode as he can, but that doesn't work when cutting miter angles.

2) Dennis's design requires a smooth continuous countertop into which a groove is routed. My mitersaw setup doesn't have such a continuous countertop, so I'd have to rebuild my mitersaw station from scratch, which is a lot of time, work, and expense.

3) With the Incra fence, I was able to modify my saw so that the aluminum Incra fence extends almost all the way to the blade, where it holds a replaceable sacrificial insert for zero-clearance cuts. I posted about that here a while back. This is more elegant than Dennis's stop extension thingie, IMO.

4) I note that in Dennis's current workshop, he has removed his own replaceable back fences and zero-clearance  insert. Was he somehow unhappy with how that design worked out for him? Were his inserts too finicky to reproduce? Did he miss the loss of capacity from the additional fences he attached to make that work?

4) The Incra stop and fence system has a nice design for referencing against angled ends, which I haven't seen replicated or solved in home-built systems. At least, not yet.

5) I haven't seen anyone put a DRO on their crosscut sled. I look forward to your video on how to you easily put a DRO on your crosscut sled. I'm particularly interested in how you will incorporate an extensible fence with the DRO on your sled, as that's a standard feature not just on many cross-cut sleds, but miter gauges as well. Oh, you do have a DRO on your miter gauge, right?

6) The video you posted cracked me up when he used an Incra stop on his router table to build his mitersaw DRO stop system. Why doesn't he have a DRO on his router table fence? Do you?

Again, I started this thread to show people a modification I made to my two Incra Flip Stops that makes them, IMHO, better for micro-adjusting. I was thinking people might already have this Stop, or were considering buying one but concerned about the well-known lack of easy micro-adjustability. If you don't want to buy Incra stuff, great, just move on to another thread.

But now we're all waiting for you to put a DRO on your mitersaw, and especially your cross-cut sled, and then come back here and start threads on them for us.

And I'll not chime in that you shouldn't do any of that and just buy a sliding tablesaw instead, OK?

 

[Mini Me]

I have the Incra system as back then it was the only game in town and is accurate. My router table is touch screen controlled with custom software, put the number into the screen you need and press go. It sets the height of the bit and the fence position. My table saw is a slider so no sled for me but I added fence DRO's on both fences. My unsaid intent in the post was to show that there are now realistic alternative choices to Incra now available where a few years they did not exist and I apologise for raising them and taking the thread off topic. Please ignore me and I will not comment any further.

 

[smorgasbord]

Here's the latest mod to my mod:
[attachimg=1]

I couldn't easily source a long enough 7mm bolt, so I made one by cutting a piece of threaded rod and scewing a nyloc nut on it. The spring is there to keep enough tension that the bolt won't twist under normal vibration, but I can thread/unthread it easily by hand.

 

[alladd]

Nice modification! I can't believe that Incra cheaps out and uses cap screws instead of toolless knobs to secure that micro-adjust. I replaced those the firs week i had it (some 25 years ago!). There's lots to love and lots to hate on the whole Incra miter guage system. The miter bar nylon expansion discs work great---for a bout 2 days of heavy use. Then they wear to the point they need rotation, and in another week, replacement. I finally found the right thickness UHMW tape to add to the bar's full length and removed the stupid discs.
A microadjust should be exactly as your is. No need to lock anything-just turn one knob to change the setting. And it should not change a critical calibration. I"ve been working on a design for the Unisled I've been selling a plan for on Etsy and will soon be offering completed units for sale. The flipstop that comes with the Woodpecker's Autoscale, which is the sled I"m trying to outdo for lower cost, is lousy, with excessive deflection. It's not easy making a flipstop that works as it should, and so I don't think anyone has yet.But I'm trying!