Most versatile Drill

[AlexThePalex]

This would probably favor the PDC over the T18 and C18. I think I will try to find a dealer to get them in my hands, compare and find out my personal preference. If I like the T/C more (as I think many of you do), I maybe give up the concrete drilling option if I take Festool.

The PDC is a much rougher drill than the T/C18. I have the T15 for 11 years now and I have never used a smoother more easily controllable drill than this one. I also have lots of experience with the PDC which my nephew owns and I have used it on many projects besides my own drill. 

What I think is the PDC's main advantage is the high speed that comes from the gearbox with 4 gears vs the T/C models which only have the usual 2. It makes driving screws very fast and it seems effortless. Downside is the 4 gearbox constantly jams when switching gears, I find it incredibly irritating in use. It also makes the drill run rough and noisy. And it's quite a bit heavier than my T15. And last but not least, when you use the hammer function, it is like you unleash hell on earth due to the sound. It makes twice as much noise as my 220v percussion drill, and that one's loud already.

My T15 is 11 years old now, and the PDC is 6 or 7. My T15 has seen a lot more use, but it is still as smooth as it was new, while the PDC is a piece of junk now, everything rattles and it seems to have only half the power it originally had.

I would not trade my T15 for a PDC, ever, not even if I got money on top. It's like driving a Mercedes versus a Landrover. A really old, crappy, worn out Landrover with a broken suspension.

 

[peter halle]

Lot of advice here due to our great Members.  Thank you.

I spent a few days putting in 3" screws using my T-15 with my C-12 ready and waiting.  I wouldn't trade my T-15 for anything.  It just rocks.  And rocks again years later.

Peter

 

[Doug S]

PDC is by far my most disappointing Festool purchase. The gearbox is really clunky, the electronic clutch just beeps at you all the time and it is stupid loud when drilling masonry.

My most used driver is my little csx, had it years and love it but only gets used for driving screws.

Went down the 18v Makita platform for rest of drills just because I have the batteries.

I use one of these for most of my drilling, it's really small and light and compliments the csx really well for me.
https://www.makitauk.com/product/ddf083z.html

 

[Cheese]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] The electronic clutch on the T and C drills are something of a mystery to me.  If I run the screw at a lower consistent speed, I get repeatable results.  But in construction type tasks running long screws into 2x lumber at full speed, the electronic clutch frequently overdrives the screws be a large margin of error, where as the mechanical clutches are much more accurate.   
Any ideas??

So run the screw at lower speeds... [poke]

Yea that's the key Raj. Kind of like Bar-B-Queing... low and slow.  [big grin]

I usually drill at the fastest speed, while I screw at the slowest speed. It's more satisfying... [cool]  [big grin]

It's impossible to expect to have any drill with a clutch, mechanical or electronic, to be able to react within any reasonable time window if that thing is operating in excess of 2000 rpm. The forward momentum and the mass of the chuck & drill precludes it from acting in
the instantanious way it would need to do in order to halt the drilling/screwing process.

The Festool solution is the best I've found and I do wish they'd incorporate it into their next gen CXS. I'd off-load the old CXS for the new new CXS in a hot NY second.

 

[jeffm13]

I spent some time with a bunch of Boy Scouts this weekend, working on an Eagle Scout project to build some benches. I brought a T18 and a TXS along to speed things along a bit.  Interestingly, one older Scout decided that the TXS didn't have enough ooomph, and decided to go with a big and clunky, but more powerful, corded drill.  Two other older scouts loved using the TXS. I preferred using the T18, and assembled three benches a bit quicker than each team of boys could construct one.  I then used the T18 to do a bit of reinforcement to the benches constructed by the boys.

So my vote: two drills--the TXS and the T18. But if I had to choose, the T18 would win every time.

 

[Paul G]

Just wrapped up a quick cabinet project, using the same Milwaukee M18 fuel for everything from removing old cabinets, drilling and setting lots of pocket screws, hanging cabinets, installing hardware, hole sawing, mixing some hot mud, and other stuff I’m forgetting right now. This thread made me realize I changed the battery only once in 4 days. This drill and the batteries is about 6 years old now and still going strong. Maybe I don’t know what I’m missing in other brands but I’ve been extremely satisfied with Milwaukee and it has served me very well

 

[Sanderxpander]

Ok so the OP has a 12V Bosch for small jobs, would like something more powerful and would like to occasionally drill a hole in concrete to hang stuff. A T18 seems to be loved almost universally here and would fit the bill except for the concrete. I'd suggest getting a cheap  corded green Bosch SDS hammer drill for that, it'll go like a hot knife through butter for that use. Get a T18 with the attachments for everything else. Get a 12V Bosch impact driver body if you do a lot of larger screws.

 

[Tim3100]

That’s a good summary and the path I‘m going to take. Given the experience here, PDC is no longer an option and I will look for a shop to try the T18 and C18.

 

[bertv]

My T15 is 11 years old now, and the PDC is 6 or 7. My T15 has seen a lot more use, but it is still as smooth as it was new, while the PDC is a piece of junk now, everything rattles and it seems to have only half the power it originally had.

Could the difference in quality have to do with the origins of these machines? If I remember correctly the PDC was a Protool and it has been rebranded to Festool after TTS consolidated the two firms into one. (I am not sure about this, please correct me if I am wrong).

OT: I own 2 CXS's and two other Festool drills. The fact that I don’t know by heart which ones is an indication of what I use a lot and what not. Having 2 CXS's rocks!

 

[AlexThePalex]

Could the difference in quality have to do with the origins of these machines? If I remember correctly the PDC was a Protool and it has been rebranded to Festool after TTS consolidated the two firms into one. (I am not sure about this, please correct me if I am wrong).

The PDC is a pure Festool design made by Festool engineers after TTS took over Protool. You can see clearly they used the T15 as a base to design the PDC, it has all the features and electronics of the T15. Only thing is they overstretched with the 4 gear box, it was just too much to be sturdy.

 

[Jim_in_PA]

I get the impression using one machine will become too much of a compromise.

IMHO, this is an accurate statement. I prefer to use the "heavy" drill/drivers only for tasks where the extra power and stoutness is required. I have three Festool D/Ds (plus an older DeWalt) and my most used Festool is the tiny CSX. It's light-weight, surprisingly powerful and easy to control for one-hand use. That's for both in-shop tasks and home improvement stuff, too. I don't get tired as fast when there is a lot of ordinary drilling/driving going on that way.

 

[Chinski]

Yikes, and I was thinking of moving from my Dewalt hammer drill DCD996 + impact driver DCF887 combo to Festool and turned to this thread to decide which ones!

While I think they're a fantastic combo - my feeling was that all my other Festool tools made their predecessors look like kids toys so I'd find the same with the drills / drivers.  Well this thread has made me think again. 

Tell me, do Festool have an impact driver in the way that my Dewalt DCF887 literally whacks the screw / bolt round or do they simply rely on high torque (which admittedly gives better control)?

Well, there's a few $$$ saved anyway.

Thanks all!

 

[Jmacpherson]

[member=70342]Chinski[/member] - there is a new Festool impact driver on a list of products for 2019 that was leaked/discovered, check the 2019 thread. Nobody knows when this year, what it will be like or how much damage it will do to ones wallet.

Don't be too quick to discard your DCD996 or DCF887. Ergonomically they have one of the best grips on the market.

In response to the thread I've changed my tune a little, use to swear by the PDC, nice drill but not my go to anymore:

PDC is mainly used for making custom pocket hole plugs - 3800rpm is fantastic for this
T18 is my go to 18v drill for general projects and even stuff around the house
CXS is for small odd little screws
DCD996 is my "dirty" drill - used to mix paint, really large holes, all the messy jobs. 

I wish the T18 had more rpm, like 1800-2000 instead of 1500. (Problem when you have to speed monsters in your arsenal)

 

[Sanderxpander]

Most impact drivers have way higher speed for screws, I really like them for construction even when I don't do huge bolts. E.g. my simple Bosch GDR-12V has 2600RPM. You generally only need/want the the higher speed for rougher construction and larger screws anyway, I wouldn't use it for very small screws or cabinetry.

 

[unixisgoodforyou]

I own a T18+set.  As an all around drill it is very well made and will do most homeowner tasks.  The right angle and eccentric(sp?) attachments are awesome. I really appreciate the electronic clutch.  Every time I use it, there is a smile on my face. (My other drill is a cheap handme down lead acid hammer drill.). The Bosch was not available, when I bought my T18.

If I was to buy something today, I would look at the 12V Bosch flexiclick.  It isn’t as powerful, and isn’t brushless.  But it should do the job for a lot less shekels.  (I don’t have any other plans for other cordless tools from Festool.)
RWW

 

[RC]

By far my most used Festoy drill is the CXS (though I would probably prefer a TXS had it been available when I bought my CXS). About 99% of my use is covered with this little beauty from installing stuff to drilling medium sized screws. Light, nible ja small with excellent tight space utility.

Then I skipped the middle sizes for a PDC which I don't use often, but when I need power there is boat loads of it and the gearbox makes it very versatile for the odd large jobs. Maybe a T18 would be 'smoother' but if pure grunt is needed this is nice to have. If I need more power I'll go to my ½" bolt wrench to tighten lag bolts and such as the impact action is easier on the wrist than the PDC.

If I had concrete I would get an BHC for that, but since the only time I need to worry about hard concrete is when doing installation for friends at their houses I usually use their Makita hammer drill which serves well the need once every couple of years to put a painting up or attach a bookshelf to the wall, etc. Living in a light concrete house where one can make holes in the wall with my CXS (or a teaspoon for that matter) I don't really have a need for BHC.  [wink]

I also own the now discontinued epic fail of a Festool the Ti15 impact drill. Works just fine, but is rather limited to decking work and it is apparently underpowered for what it is compared to the market. Built a deck with it but hasn't seen use since. The adapter thingy in it to disengage the impact function makes it awfully clunky and tip heavy.

 

[Sanderxpander]

To the OP, you're probably not in The Netherlands but if you're close, the T18 is on sale right now with 2 3.1V Bluetooth enabled batteries, a fast charger and a systainer for 250 ex VAT at bouwmaat.nl
No attachments though, but a better price than I've seen anywhere else except for bare body versions.

 

[Cheese]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] The electronic clutch on the T and C drills are something of a mystery to me. 

Raj, so here's another great example of at least 2 drilling needs.

The First need is to have multiple drills.
The CXS is outfitted with a 5/16" bit to enlarge holes in multiple garage door steel brackets.
The C 15 is outfitted with a socket to properly torque down the new carriage bolts.
The Milwaukee is outfitted with a 12-point socket to remove the SQUARE nuts that are rusted to the old carriage bolts.

Looking at all the different sizes of bits that need to be used, with only a single drill you'd spend 6 hours at this project. Constantly chucking and un-chucking the drill bits & drivers.

The Second need is to be able to reliably/repeatably torque down the new stainless fasteners. 38 of them in all, 114 torque checks because I checked each one 3 times and 114 beeps...sweet.

I wish the CXS would be upgraded to brushless with an electronic clutch.  [big grin] [big grin] [big grin]

[attachimg=1]

 

[Jiggy Joiner]

Drills are something we have in abundance, our work is so varied we have to try and cover any scenario.
We have little tiny 10.8 volt drills and drivers, up to very big mains powered drills for boring into thick concrete.
As always, I think when buying tools you have to look at both ends of the scale, for what they will be used for.
In a workshop environment, I often make do with an 18 volt drill driver, and an 18 volt impact driver.
If doing a large project with different types of drill size and fixings, we often have multiple cordless drills and drivers set up. This is a more convenient and quicker way of working for us.

We don’t own many Festool cordless drills, simply because we need so many, and obviously the cost for what we need would be substantial. Also they do not cover the drill or driver types that we need.
Oil pulse impact drivers is one example.

 

[RKA]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] you don’t need to convince me!  I think the OP might need a little push though.  [wink]