Moving or Deleting Posts

[Brice Burrell]

Matthew, I don't want to discuss what happens on the other forum, I want to address the issues of this forum. I believe I'm not alone on this. I will discuss the issues directly relating to the other forum in another post if you feel it is important.

Brice,
Since you are so incensed about me simply moving a topic from one board to another,.....

Matthew, you are downplaying and avoiding addressing the important issues behind your moving of Dan's thread, the issues are clear. I will point them out just so there is no question.

Issue Number One: You didn't simply move the thread to another board because it didn't belong where it was posted as per normal procedure for the FOG. The thread appears to have been moved because of a personal grudge you have with another person outside of the FOG. If that is the case I feel that is an inappropriate manipulation of content on this forum. If you have another explanation I'd like to hear it as would the rest of the membership.     

Issue Number Two: By moving the thread in question you put your personal feelings above the best interests of the FOG membership. You have every right to do this, however, you need to be prepared for the possible repercussions that kind of action may have. This issue is very closely related to the first, I feel it is important to point out separately. Again, if you can explain you behavior please do.

Issue Number Three: Inappropriately moving the thread in question was disrespectful to the poster and the membership as a whole. Dan Clermont is a Festool dealer and a long time member. Dan's efforts to help the members here are well known (even before he became a Festool dealer). I have nothing but the utmost respect for Dan's efforts as I believe the members here do as well. Your decision to manipulate his thread can only be viewed as disrespectful to all that he has done to become a valued member of this forum (my opinion). It goes beyond disrespecting Dan, the members that might benefit from his thread were disrespected as well (my opinion). Moreover, the economic times are hard and for you to remove Dan's thread to where members may not be able to find it could have adversely affected his sales. (I'm glad you decided to move the thread back to its proper place.) If you can explain how your actions weren't disrespectful please do so.

You are generally very open to discussion about your management and I applaud you for that. But when it come to issues with the other forum, even when those issues are indirectly related, you become very unreasonable and unwilling to directly address any criticism. Your MO in the past has been to fiercely avoid addressing any issues of criticism and try to turn and attack the person who brought the issues up (that's exactly what you have done to me in the past). I have very clearly pointed out the issues on hand here with full explanations as to why I've brought them up. Now it is up to you if you have the integrity to address these issues directly, not with me, but with the entire FOG membership.

I await your response. 

(post edited by Brice Burrell)  

 

[Les]

I for one would like to see a post saying a thread has been moved. When the links to documentation was moved, I thought the link had been broken. Not necessarily that it had been deleted.

How much work are talking about Matthew? How many posts are being moved on average per month?

 

[Daviddubya]

...I and the rest of the FOG membership await your response.   

Brice - This thing about moving threads and deleting posts has blown way out of proportion, IMO.  Please speak for yourself, and let the rest of the FOG membership speak for themselves.  I just went back and reviewed the posts in this thread that express concern with moving threads and deleting posts.  I found four people plus Matthew that have posted on those topics - you, Nick, Les and Frank.  There are almost 6000 FOG members!

As an experiment, I deleted two of the posts that I had made in this thread myself, one yesterday and the other two days ago.  Both of those posts had replies made to them, but the quote function was not used.  Nobody has noticed the deletions.  My point is that everyone that is a member here has the ability to delete their own posts, or to move a post from one thread to another.  Just because a post was deleted, does not mean Matthew deleted it.  I understand only Matthew can move threads.  The Search function works no matter where a thread is categorized.

 

[Brice Burrell]

...I and the rest of the FOG membership await your response.   

Brice - This thing about moving threads and deleting posts has blown way out of proportion, IMO.  Please speak for yourself, and let the rest of the FOG membership speak for themselves....... 

David, your right, I should not have spoken for the entire forum. I will go back and edit that line.

I just went back and reviewed the posts in this thread that express concern with moving threads and deleting posts.  I found four people plus Matthew that have posted on those topics - you, Nick, Les and Frank.  There are almost 6000 FOG members!.......

David, I believe you know the number of people posting doesn't necessarily reflect the real number of people that share my opinion. In this case I know it to be true because I've heard from other members through means of communication.

As an experiment, I deleted two of the posts that I had made in this thread myself, one yesterday and the other two days ago.  Both of those posts had replies made to them, but the quote function was not used.  Nobody has noticed the deletions.  My point is that everyone that is a member here has the ability to delete their own posts, or to move a post from one thread to another.  Just because a post was deleted, does not mean Matthew deleted it.  I understand only Matthew can move threads.  The Search function works no matter where a thread is categorized.

If you reread me previous post you'll see I didn't mention deletion at all. That post also, very clearly, states my issues with Matthew's actions in this matter.

 

[peter halle]

I can honestly say that I have never read so much crap on a foum about moderating.  I didn't realize that this was a moderating by committee situation or forum.  I must have missed that post somewhere.  I even did a search for committee and didn't find anything.  Why is it that the fnags come out and the hair bristles when something is moderated versus just going along smoothly?

In the background I hear the lyrics of an old Carly Simon song ..." you don't know what you've got until it's gone, they paved paradise and put up a parking lot."  God I hope not.

Peter

 

[Daviddubya]

David, your right, I should not have spoken for the entire forum. I will go back and edit that line.

Thanks for doing that.

David, I believe you know the number of people posting doesn't necessarily reflect the real number of people that share my opinion. In this case I know it to be true because I've heard from other members through means of communication.

Using your logic, the number of people not posting doesn't necessarily reflect the real number of people that do not share your opinion.

If you reread me previous post you'll see I didn't mention deletion at all....

You are absolutely correct, you did not mention deletion.  But it was mentioned in other posts in this thread and I took the liberty of including it in my post.

Peter - it was Joni Mitchell.   

 

[alanz]

It's not surprising that members complain about threads being moved.  They seem to think that their words and organizational skills should not be challenged... and if a thread is moved, they are due some explanation and breadcrumbs to find it.

Beats me why

In all the forums I administer, we explain this when people sign up.  For example, in a motorcycle forum, this is the text:

"Threads get moved. If it's no longer there, it's probably somewhere else. Find it. The current thread volume does not permit for detailed offline explanations as to why your inquiry about "who was on that black Cruiser last Saturday" actually belongs in the On The Road forum. "

Very few of the forums that I frequent have forwarding stub messages to moved threads... some find them useful, some see them as noise.  Personally, I prefer not to see them.

Again, these are just my preferences, but usually based on years of community administration.

Members of forums rarely see the grief, abuse, legal, law enforcement and other actions that moderators and administrators wind up having to deal with.  Few non-moderators have any idea of how intense this can get.  And generally we're volunteers.  Calling it thankless would be kind...

So, thanks Matthew, from a kindred spirit.

 

[Dan Clermont]

Mathew

I have been avoiding this political discussion for days and tonight found out allot of the discussion has to do with me and my Qwas dog thread. I would have appreciated it if you would have contacted me beforehand or given me a reason why it was moved. The sales area seemed like the most logical place to put the information.

I am not aware of your issues with Qwas and I really don't want to get involved at all.

Please do not move my posts without contacting me and letting me know why it is being done. I have been a strong FOG supporter over the years and would like to continue doing so.

Funny thing is, I haven't even posted the fact I am selling the Qwas Dogs on the other forum. Qwas seems to have no issue with the fact I am promoting them on your forum.

Dan Clermont

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Dan,
This has been a long and windy thread, so let me catch you up.

I have been avoiding this political discussion for days and tonight found out allot of the discussion has to do with me and my Qwas dog thread.

The discusson had nothing to do with your post about the products you mention.  How did you "find out" that this was the case?  The issue with Qwas came up in mid-stream.  The discussion arose because the people on TF have once again started up a rumor campaign.  Well, they always have a rumor campaign, but every once in a while they take it up a notch and I need to respond to it.

I am not aware of your issues with Qwas and I really don't want to get involved at all.

You and I have discussed TF issues before, back when you were a frequent contributor to that forum.  As you know, Qwas is a moderator on TF.  Enough said.

Please do not move my posts without contacting me and letting me know why it is being done.

I have not, and will not, write personal letters to members informing them that their posts have been moved.  It's work enough just keeping up on forum administration, without having to keep track of personal messages to individual posters about the tiny details of where their posts are located.  I move posts in order to order things better.  Anyway, as has been mentioned before, a simple search will reveal your post's new location.

More specifically, I am being unbelievably generous (in my opinion) by even allowing these products to be publicized through the FOG.  Again, the person who profits from the sales of these products is part of a group that has been on a campaign to destroy this forum for almost a year.

I've been in touch with several other forum administrators, and 100% of them say that they would delete -- without comment -- any posts in their forums about such a product.

I have been a strong FOG supporter over the years and would like to continue doing so.

I don't like your implication here.

As you know, the FOG has been a resource for you and your business.  I would like to continue doing so.  But if you choose to go elsewhere, good luck.

Funny thing is, I haven't even posted the fact I am selling the Qwas Dogs on the other forum. Qwas seems to have no issue with the fact I am promoting them on your forum.

Yes, I know.  As I mentioned, I personally wrote to him myself a while ago and, even with the TF people's destructive activities, I said it was all right if he mentioned his products here.  You see the thanks I have received.

Why would Qwas have an issue with his products being mentioned here?  Is he afraid he might sell a few more of them through this forum?

* * *

Everyone, I'm at the end of my patience with this garbage.

Thanks,
Matthew

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Matthew, you are downplaying and avoiding addressing the important issues behind your moving of Dan's thread, the issues are clear. I will point them out just so there is no question.

Issue Number One: You didn't simply move the thread to another board because it didn't belong where it was posted as per normal procedure for the FOG. The thread appears to have been moved because of a personal grudge you have with another person outside of the FOG. If that is the case I feel that is an inappropriate manipulation of content on this forum. If you have another explanation I'd like to hear it as would the rest of the membership.     

Issue Number Two: By moving the thread in question you put your personal feelings above the best interests of the FOG membership... Again, if you can explain you behavior please do.

Issue Number Three: Inappropriately moving the thread in question was disrespectful to the poster and the membership as a whole. ...

I have directly addressed all three of these "issues" in this discussion.  Take a look at previous posts.  I have not "inappropriately moved" or "manipulated" anything.  For a brief time, I moved the discussion in question to the "Off Topic" zone, then thought better of it and moved it back.  It was in the "Off Topic" zone for a very short time.

In no way does this show disrespect for anyone, except perhaps to myself for allowing an antagonistic person to reap financial gain from this forum.  Certainly, it is not disrespectful to the "membership as a whole," as most people don't really care much about this.

In fact, I'd say you show more disrespect to the membership as a whole by regularly questioning my administration and making it so I must spend time responding to your personal gripes, which takes time and effort away from general forum work.

You are generally very open to discussion about your management and I applaud you for that. But when it come to issues with the other forum, even when those issues are indirectly related, you become very unreasonable and unwilling to directly address any criticism. Your MO in the past has been to fiercely avoid addressing any issues of criticism and try to turn and attack the person who brought the issues up (that's exactly what you have done to me in the past). I have very clearly pointed out the issues on hand here with full explanations as to why I've brought them up. Now it is up to you if you have the integrity to address these issues directly, not with me, but with the entire FOG membership.

I hardly think I've been "unwilling to directly address criticism"!  Far from "fiercely avoiding addressing any issues of criticism," I probably have gone farther than I should in addressing it!!  This entire discussion can be seen as an open place to criticize my decisions.  Not one person who has criticized me has been hampered in any way, and I have responded to each of them.

What exactly do you think I have not addressed directly?

Since we're discussing integrity here, let me ask you a few questions Brice.  Why are you always one of the most prominent questioners of my forum administration?  Why did your criticism of my administration begin precisely when the other forum came into existence?  Does this have anything to do with the fact that you were one of the earliest contributing members of that new forum?

Thanks,
Matthew

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Robert,
OK, I moved Dan's post which I quoted earlier.  With so many posts, Dan's slipped through the cracks on this one.
But now it is here, where it belongs.
Matthew