My 2012 Kapex let out the smoke today

[bwehman]

Super sad. Just cutting away and poof. Black stinky smoke rising out of the motor housing. I was in the middle of a huge siding job and had to keep going, so went down to the local dealer and picked up a new one. Pretty interesting to see the little improvements they've made over the last 6.5 years. The angle finder is MUCH better, different fasteners here and there, the CT hose connector is now the new one of course. I'm hoping they maybe addressed and fixed whatever has been causing the motor issues so numerously reported over the years? I'm going to tear into the 2012 Kapex and see if I can fix it. I might crack open both to see if anything's changed.

Anyway, just reporting an official failure of a 3/2012 model.

 

[vkumar]

Interesting. The general wisdom was that the older units were more reliable--in fact many members  here would say that. Only the newer ones had problems.

Which is it?  Or do they all have problems.  Festool ought to do better than have this festering problem affect their reputation.

 

[bwehman]

Yeah :/ Not sure but I'm really hoping that by the 2018 iteration things have been fixed.

 

[Cheese]

Well maybe it’s time to check the old Ekat and look for different part numbers. That could be a clue.

Although reading today that Festool sometimes just changes assembly numbers on products willy nilly, isn’t exactly reassuring.  [eek]    Actually that’s really scary.  [crying]

 

[AlexThePalex]

I'm hoping they maybe addressed and fixed whatever has been causing the motor issues so numerously reported over the years?

No, they haven't.

 

[kevinculle]

...had to keep going, so went down to the local dealer and picked up a new one.

Taking customer loyalty to a new level!

 

[bwehman]

haha, well... that's the thing, I don't think it's wholly unreasonable that this died after 6 years of service - I'm super bummed - but even if I did, my entire shop is built around Festool and the fabled system. If I went with another brand, that means bucking the MFT Kapex, the extension wings and how I use them, figuring out a new method of making fast dados for framing, dealing with freakin heaps of dust, etc. I use the variable speed motor to cut aluminum flashing all the time, PVC too, so there's that feature I'd have to find in another brand, same with having to find a SCMS with such a small foot print. I've had DeWalt's equivalent set up, with the stand and such, and it's all is so crude compared to the Festool miter saw life. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[ChuckM]

Good points about sticking to the KS120 since you use it for making a living, and familiarity is important.

Similar arguments can be made for the SawStop owners. I have yet to meet one single SawStop cabinet model owner who ditches his or her SawStop for another brand of cabinet saw.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Good points about sticking to the KS120 since you use it for making a living, and familiarity is important.

Similar arguments can be made for the SawStop owners. I have yet to meet one single SawStop cabinet model owner who ditches his or her SawStop for another brand of cabinet saw.

If the motor burned out in a few years, and it was a known issue, I bet they would. 

 

[andyman]

Mine done the same about 4 months ago, 2015 model luckily still under warranty.
They said something to do with the brushes, it had not had heavy use either

 

[ChuckM]

Good points about sticking to the KS120 since you use it for making a living, and familiarity is important.

Similar arguments can be made for the SawStop owners. I have yet to meet one single SawStop cabinet model owner who ditches his or her SawStop for another brand of cabinet saw.

If the motor burned out in a few years, and it was a known issue, I bet they would.

If my Kapex burned out on me, there is zero chance that I would go out and grab another Kapex to finish whatever job I was doing. I would get a Bosch instead, and sort out the repairs later. But I am an amateur and can find whatever time needed to learn a new brand and its features.

If my SawStop's motor burned out and the SawStop safety feature was the overriding reason why I got the saw, I would not have any option but to replace motor, would I?

 

[glass1]

many guys i work with have 10, 15, 20 year old scms made by hitachi, dewalt, and makita still going strong. Its just sad that y'all accept a few years from a $1600 saw and after it fries itself y'all buy another. Why reward festool for designing such garbage.

 

[Cheese]

many guys i work with have 10, 15, 20 year old scms made by hitachi, dewalt, and makita still going strong. Its just sad that y'all accept a few years from a $1600 saw and after it fries itself y'all buy another. Why reward festool for designing such garbage.

I agree, 4-5 years of Kapex superiority will never equal the 20 years of service produced by ANY OTHER MITER SAW. Even the compromised brands have a better track record than Kapex...Festool.

Ridiculous... ridiculous not because Festool produced a turd...rather, ridiculous because they never considered it prudent to fix their turd production problem. Just keep cranking those turds out seems to be the Festool mantra.

 

[vkumar]

If the motor burned out in a few years, and it was a known issue, I bet they would.

Brice,  Sawstop is owned by the same company as Festool is. Are you sure this would happen now?  Of course this is probably a theoretical question, since Sawstop motors are pretty good.

 

[Jaybolishes]

You mean sawstop motors used to be good.  Let’s see, now that they have been bought by a company known to have underpowered motors that blow up prematurely. Is this a dead horse?  Sad isn’t it?

 

[Roseland]

The TS55 has thermal overload protection.  Is this also in the Kapex (but doesn't work)?

Andrew

 

[kevinculle]

You mean sawstop motors used to be good...

Fortunately cabinet saws are equipped with large, relatively standardized and rugged electric motors whose design details and engineering were worked out long ago, so this is arguably a moot point.  It is the art of packaging a compact purpose engineered electric motor integrated into the tool at which Festool seems to have badly stumbled and not yet even attempted to recover.

 

[ChuckM]

The TS55 has thermal overload protection.  Is this also in the Kapex (but doesn't work)?

Andrew

Good question.

Does the Kapex have any thermal overload protection?
Or is the motor issue due to a problem unrelated to overloading?

Regarding SawStop motors, since the SawStop is run strictly separated from Festool (manufacturing), the tablesaw motors won't be affected by whatever that has plagued the Kapex -- at least as long as Festool and SawStop have their own manufacturing and production jurisdictions.

 

[bwehman]

many guys i work with have 10, 15, 20 year old scms made by hitachi, dewalt, and makita still going strong. Its just sad that y'all accept a few years from a $1600 saw and after it fries itself y'all buy another. Why reward festool for designing such garbage.

I agree, 4-5 years of Kapex superiority will never equal the 20 years of service produced by ANY OTHER MITER SAW. Even the compromised brands have a better track record than Kapex...Festool.

Ridiculous... ridiculous not because Festool produced a turd...rather, ridiculous because they never considered it prudent to fix their turd production problem. Just keep cranking those turds out seems to be the Festool mantra.

It just isn't that way for me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The value the Kapex brings in terms of production and efficiency makes the cost of one rather immaterial. I mean, of course I'd prefer this thing to last as long as all those other brands. Of course I do. And it's a super shame that Festool has a problem they won't fix. But at the end of the day, even one Kapex per 3 years (warranty period) costs less than 1% of the revenue it allows me to produce in that same time period. When it's not blown up and smoking like a chimney, it does miter saw things *for me and my workflow* better than any other saw to such a degree that I don't even categorize most other SCMS as an equivalent tool to the Kapex.

A quick example is a commonly-compared saw, the Bosch Glide. It's $700, the Kapex is $1500, an $800 difference. That's gross revenue made in a single day. One day. It's not even worth thinking about with that kind of margin. What *is* worth thinking about, however, is how much a workflow will be impacted by introducing a new component. These are tools, means to an end. Whatever gets from A to B cleanest and quickest is the correct tool. For me that's the Kapex, even with the stupid motor issues that I wish would get resolved. But many others won't have that same need, and that's totally OK too.

Kapex isn't for everyone, but neither is the Bosch, DeWalt, etc.

 

[James Biddle]

many guys i work with have 10, 15, 20 year old scms made by hitachi, dewalt, and makita still going strong. Its just sad that y'all accept a few years from a $1600 saw and after it fries itself y'all buy another. Why reward festool for designing such garbage.

I agree, 4-5 years of Kapex superiority will never equal the 20 years of service produced by ANY OTHER MITER SAW. Even the compromised brands have a better track record than Kapex...Festool.

Ridiculous... ridiculous not because Festool produced a turd...rather, ridiculous because they never considered it prudent to fix their turd production problem. Just keep cranking those turds out seems to be the Festool mantra.

It just isn't that way for me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The value the Kapex brings in terms of production and efficiency makes the cost of one rather immaterial. I mean, of course I'd prefer this thing to last as long as all those other brands. Of course I do. And it's a super shame that Festool has a problem they won't fix. But at the end of the day, even one Kapex per 3 years (warranty period) costs less than 1% of the revenue it allows me to produce in that same time period. When it's not blown up and smoking like a chimney, it does miter saw things *for me and my workflow* better than any other saw to such a degree that I don't even categorize most other SCMS as an equivalent tool to the Kapex.

A quick example is a commonly-compared saw, the Bosch Glide. It's $700, the Kapex is $1500, an $800 difference. That's gross revenue made in a single day. One day. It's not even worth thinking about with that kind of margin. What *is* worth thinking about, however, is how much a workflow will be impacted by introducing a new component. These are tools, means to an end. Whatever gets from A to B cleanest and quickest is the correct tool. For me that's the Kapex, even with the stupid motor issues that I wish would get resolved. But many others won't have that same need, and that's totally OK too.

Kapex isn't for everyone, but neither is the Bosch, DeWalt, etc.

Are you saying the the Glide won't cut one day, two, or whatever?  Have you heard of similar failures in the Glide? Or maybe you think the Glide won't cut accurately.  Is the minute you save vacuuming up the shavings from the Kapex over the Glide your profit margin?  I don't even own a Glide.  Maybe it's too heavy.  What about the Makita, Dewalt, or Milwaukee?

I had a Kapex. It cut fine. I still had to vac afterward, but not too much.  Just how much of a competitive advantage is that, relative to the risk?  Everyone here acts as if the competition sucks...it doesn't. 

The Domino though, it rocks.