My first date with a Kapex-Comments & Questions

gbruzze1

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Joined
Jul 21, 2010
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58
I received my Kapex this week.  Along with the saw, I also got the UG-Cart.  Not the wings, just the cart.  In my opinion, the wings are overpriced and don't suit my needs.  I have toyed with them.  Very impressive and deceptively sturdy, but just not for me.  Anyway...

I built a new set of home-made extension wings.  They are attached to the saw via the extension plate that comes with the crown stops.  The connection was an idea I used from NeilC.  The extension wings are based on Gary Katz design ( www.garymkatz.com

What I like about my set-up is that, while I don't see myself usually using them, I still have the ability to use Festool's crown stops, unlike with Festools extension wings.  However, I prefer to use a sacrificial 1x6 across the entire base plate of my saw.  It provides me with better support, especially when cutting self-returns.  What I do think I may do is put a T-bolt through the 1x6 with a knob and attach it to the t-track on the extension plates.  Since I didn't have any knobs or t-bolts handy, I used a Festool Rapid Clamp.  I thought this worked out very good.  It provided a stronger attachment of the 1x6 then my usual method of using quick-grip clamps that I always seem to bang out of position.

So the first task I had for the saw was running some 4 1/2" Dentil crown in a bedroom.  Very straight-forward, rectangular room.  No outside corners or self-returns.  Normally, I prefer to cope all my moldings whenever possible.  Dentil crown, however, requires way too much math for me in getting the dentils to continue properly around corners.  So I miter the inside corners.  I was excited at the chance to use the Festool Angle Finder that comes with the Kapex.  However, the way I work, I was quickly disappointed.  I believe in minimizing my movements.  Equipped with a Stabila Laser Measure, I stand in one corner of the room and shoot the measurement for my 1st piece.  Still in the same spot, I swing my laser measure 90* and shoot the measurement for my 2nd piece.  Then I walk diagonally across the room and repeat the same process to get the measurement for the 3rd and 4th measurements.  Here's where I realized the shortcoming of the Angle Finder.  When I spread the device open to the angle, there was nothing to record.  It's intended to be taken back to the saw, set using the lasers, and then the piece cut.  But now instead of 1 trip back to my saw I would have to make 4.  That's just way too time consuming for me.  It's not useless for me though.  Doing 1 or 2 pieces or needing to quickly bisect an angle, it's right there on the saw and is pretty accurate.  But for production, I'll stick with my Bosch Digital Angle Finder or Starrett Angle Finder so I can record the angles as I go.

Now for the cutting...

I'm not sure if it's just because it's a brand new saw with a brand new blade or what...but man I have never felt a saw make a smoother cut then the Kapex.  The only thing I need to get used to is the soft-start.  Coming from a DeWalt 708 12", the soft-start catches me off guard a little bit.  But I was very impressed with the smoothness of the saw and the quality of the cuts. 

As for the laser, I needed to adjust it out of the box.  I'm not sure if it got knocked out of calibration during transit, or if the factory setting differs from my preferred setting.  When I line up the laser with my pencil mark, I want to be able to split the line of a crisp, 2.5 lead pencil mark.  With a little adjustment, I was able to achieve this.  After a few test cuts, I was marking the crown, lining up the pencil mark with the laser and dropping the saw right on for a cut right where I expected it...sort of.  No fault of the Kapex, I just have to pay more attention to what end of the board I need.  I figure within about 5 years of using this I'll finally get the hang of it.

One of the biggest reasons I got the Kapex was the dust collection.  I mostly work in occupied homes.  On a rainy day like today, cutting outside is out of the question.  Even when cutting in the garage, I don't want to cover their car or children's stroller in sawdust.  Also, working in apartment buildings makes it nearly impossible to set up outside.  So I was really excited to finally get a miter saw with great dust collection.  Surprisingly, I was disappointed.  I bought a 37mm hose in along with the Kapex to make sure I got the most out of the dust collection ability.  Hooked up to my CT33 and I was ready to kiss clean-up goodbye.  Perhaps that was my problem...I had too high expectations for the dust collection.  I know that cutting crown in position reduces the dust collection because of the "empty space" below the material, but even cutting some flat stock I wasnt getting as much dust collection as I expected.  I had the big rubber scoop on, 37mm hose hooked up and suction on full bunny rabbit.  So what gives?  Am I just expecting miracles out of a machine?  Or am I missing something??

And now for my favorite part of the whole set-up.  I HATED pulling out my DeWalt 718.  All 57 pounds of it.  And at the end of the day, I think it gained a few pounds because it felt even heavier at 4:30.  And then my stand.  A cheap Black & Decker Workmate I modified so I can lock the 718 on and attached extension wings.  Once set-up, it worked well.  But carrying the 718 was a 2-hand and 1-thigh job.  So thats 1 trip from the van to the work area.  Now back to the van for the stand.  So now even if I'm just doing a few quick cuts, I still need to make 2 trips back and forth to the van just to get my saw set up.  This right here is where that price tag of $450, for something which looks like it cost maybe $70 to make, is totally worth every penny.  Because it's not all about what does it COST, but what is it's VALUE.  And to me, the value of pulling the Kapex attached to the UG-Cart and wheeling it right to the work area with a free hand to carry a stack of systainers, extension wing or a cup of coffee is at least $450.  I can't put a price on that convenience, especially at the end of a long day when I just wanna go home and shower. 

So thats it...1 day working with the Kapex.  All in all, I am very happy with the purchase.  For saw and stand, I spent $1,750.  Do I feel like it was worth it? Absolutely.  For what I do and how I work, this set up is valued at at least $1,750.  Yup, I can probably get 4 good miter saws and stands for that kind of money.  But the value I get out of not only this saw and stand, but its compatibility with the system (on the stand my kapex deck is the same height as my mft/3, and I can attach my extension wings to my mft/3 because they all use the v-groove), and the customer service, this beats the hell out of any other saw and stand on the market that I know of. 
 
Great story! Really enjoyed reading it and believe me the rolling ability of the stand to the set up area is worth every penni!  No more humping a saw up the road

Yep dust collection is not bad still leaves dust around the saw and right below but the vac does suck up a good percentage that would get blown out all over the garage

The angle finder I have yet to use I use the starrett angle finder tells you the cut angles for single cuts or motets

I work just like you do new job site every day or ever few days. And set up in garage and even in the house a few times

Like to see pics of how you set up wings.

You have learned from Gary Katz just like I have.

Thanks oh did my video of the stand help you?  Thanks
 
gbruzze1 said:
So what gives?  Am I just expecting miracles out of a machine?  Or am I missing something??

Great write up thanks.

I have noticed the same thing with my Kapex. Not all the dust gets picked up, but it's still better than my old Delta, with the hose falling off every 5-6th cut.
I find I get slightly better collection if I hold the saw down till the blade stops turning but in practice it's difficult to do. I am forever letting the saw rise and taking my cut molding etc. away from the saw before the blade stops moving. It's a bad habit, I know.
Tim
 
You probably know this but---
I don't own a Kapex but at a Gary Katz show, I noticed that it makes a huge difference in dust collection if the vacuum is allowed to spin up to full speed before the cut is started. Just pulling the trigger and immediately plunging would throw far more dust than if a slight delay for the vac to speed up. This was with a Midi and 36mm hose. There was almost no visable dust cloud when the vac was at full speed.
Pete
 
Well I have to edit my complaint on dust collection. Just got a turbo head and I noticed it wasn't working right. Got back to the job this morning, checked the bag and oh boy! After I changed the bag and blew out the filters with an electric blower, the turbo head worked and the dust collection was much improved! Silly me, although certainly not the dumbest thing I've done!

Kreg I will post some pics later when I get home. Yes you're video was very helpful, as were your series on built ins, very impressive.

Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk
 
Thanks very helpful. I am on the fence about the cart i have an old delta stand on wheels but didint like it when i had to go up and down stairs. Carring the kapex buy itself is no big deal and if iam doing built ins on site i like to set up my two mft's one on each side of the saw. When i break down sheet goods i set the saw on the floor but when i have all my rips made i put the saw back up. I can cut 1xs on the saw then use the 55 on the tables to cut shelving to length. Has anyone had experience going up and down stairs in a house, with carpet and hard wood stairs.  And what does the weight feel like pulling up a flight of stairs.
 
PeterK said:
Just pulling the trigger and immediately plunging would throw far more dust than if a slight delay for the vac to speed up.

Great tip Peter, Thanks!
I am definitely guilty of walking up carefully positioning the material in position for a cut and then just pulling trigger and cutting...
I just thought my Kapex didn't like my Bosch vacuum [big grin]
Tim
 
festooltim said:
Thanks very helpful. I am on the fence about the cart i have an old delta stand on wheels but didint like it when i had to go up and down stairs. Carring the kapex buy itself is no big deal and if iam doing built ins on site i like to set up my two mft\'s one on each side of the saw. When i break down sheet goods i set the saw on the floor but when i have all my rips made i put the saw back up. I can cut 1xs on the saw then use the 55 on the tables to cut shelving to length. Has anyone had experience going up and down stairs in a house, with carpet and hard wood stairs.  And what does the weight feel like pulling up a flight of stairs.

it will go up carpeted and hardwood stairs fine. just make sure yur wheels are clean of sand or tiny pebbles from the driveway before you hit the hardwood.. i still carry it up the stairs, rolling it up hand truck style just takes too long
 
Pardon my ignorance, but what's a 'turbo head'? 

Is it like a Dust Deputy?

How much improvement did you see?  (50%?  75%...)

What percentage of the total dust made would you estimate the vacuum gets in the cut?

I'm curious because a Kapex is definitely on the list...but I need to establish where.

Thanks.

RP
 
In reference to your question about a turbo head, this is what I think was being referenced:

[attachimg=#]

A beater bar attachment that is powered by the airflow of the dust collector.

Peter

 
Well after Day 2 of working with my Kapex and stand, here are my findings.

Once I replaced the bag and cleaned the filters, dust collection was much improved.  I can't really say what percentage of dust was collected, but it was definitely most of it.  To give some comparison, here is a picture of all the dust left on the floor from a full day of cutting crown in position

[attachimg=1]

And here is a photo of the dust left on the floor after ripping a 12" piece of 1x pine on the table saw

[attachimg=2]

You can see that just one rip on the table saw left me with about half the dust that I had from about 40 cuts on the Kapex.

Kreg, here is a shot of my Kapex on the UG-Cart and with my home-made extension wings

[attachimg=3]

And here is the attachment

[attachimg=4]

I can't take any credit for that attachment.  It is a blatant copy of an idea posted by NeilC.

One thing I love is I can clip on a garbage bag so that I don't just drop my off-cuts on the floor and wind up with a mess to clean up later.  Also, you can see that I have a sacrificial 1x6 attached to the extension plates using 2" t-bolts and knobs. 

[attachimg=5]

Yesterday I used the Rapid Clamp, but using the t-bolts is much better as it is less cumbersome and doesnt get in the way of setting the crown in like the rapid clamps, or any clamps for that matter. 

You'll notice I cut out little holes in the board.  Lucky for me, the places like this forum exist where people far smarter then me share their ideas, which I then copy. 

It's usually not that vital for me to read the miter scale when I'm running crown, except for outside corners.  I almost always cope my inside corners, so I just set the saw at 45* and cut.  However, I hate coping dentil and find it easier for me to line up the dentils using miters.  So now it's really important for me to be able to read the miter scale.  Using my Starrett protractor, I bisect the angle to the nearest 1/2*.  With these little cut-outs I made, I was easily able to look right in and accurately set the miter scale, like in this picture, to 44 1/2*

[attachimg=6]

I wish I realized it before I made the cut, but I didn't need the hole on the right side.  the 45* area is easy to see because its more towards the front of the scale on the right side, the 1x6 doesnt block it.  That hole lets me see 55*, which so far I've never set my saw to for crown.

This brings me to something I HATED about my DeWalt 708.  I use my laser measure to get a perfect measurement of the piece I need.  I determine the angle very accurately using a Starrett protractor which tells me the exact angle I need to set my saw to.  Mark my crown, set my saw, make the cut.  I am destined for glory.  Get to the corner, set the boards in and...WTF!  The joints aren't closing.  What happened?  During the cut, the miter scale on the 708 slipped out of position.  Especially on a cut like 44 1/2*, the saw wants to jump in to that 45* detent.  And usually does during the cut without me noticing.  Because the handle of the DeWalt saw is to the right of the blade, the motion of my hand when dropping the saw causes the blade to be pushed slightly to the right.  Thats all it takes to move the miter scale and ruin my joint.  I mean, with all the effort I'm going through to produce a beautiful joint that I can take pride in, it's very upsetting to have a machine that doesnt want to cooperate.

Enter the Kapex.  The miter scale locks into place very firmly.  It lets out a loud SNAP when it's locked in, and you ain't moving it.  Also, the handle which is directly over the blade, I was a little hesitant about, as I had never used a saw like that before.  I quickly found that the motion is easy to get used to.  Also, it forces the motion of my arm to be in line with the motion the blade is supposed to go.  The only bad thing about this miter scale is that now when my joints don't close, I can't blame the saw!

 
With my wings, I can support a full 16' piece of crown to one side of the blade

[attachimg=1]

The nicest thing is I don't need to risk a finger using a death grip to keep the crown in place.  I can safely keep my hand away from the blade and locked behind the fence, gently holding the crown in place and letting the sacrificial board and the extension wings do all the work.  After all, I'd hate to get blood all over my brand new Kapex!

I mentioned in my first post, that I really like the system approach Festool has taken.  I can take these wings and because they attach to the v-groove, I can easily set them on to my mft/3

[attachimg=2]

I haven't attached it yet, but here is my extension wing fence, equipped with t-tracks and a flip stop for repetitive cutting.  The stop slides along the length of the track on top, and the fence it self slides along the length of the track on the bottom.  So I can set a repetive stop up to about 7 or 8 feet.

[attachimg=3]

Here's the saw with the cart, no wings

[attachimg=4]

And here it is, packed up and neatly tucked away in a the corner of a closet until I come back on Monday morning

[attachimg=5]

So, while it's only been 2 dates, I think I am already in love.

Thank you to all of those creative people out there and Al Gore for inventing the internet.  I never could have come up with this stuff on my own, so thats for the ideas which I copied!

If anyone is on the fence about the Kapex or the stand, feel free to shoot me a PM and I'll see if I can answer any questions you might have.

Thanks for reading,

Gary
 
I guess i have been looking for the perfect solution. As in one of your pictures you show a room with the crown sticking out the window, witch is often my situation i do every thing in one room. I sometimes need to move the saw around some to cut and work in the room. Then i also have to do my ripping of materials on top of my miter stand and even some sheet goods, so the miter stand becomes a complete work station for everything even laying a door on there and holding it down with clamp on the kapex so it doesn't fall off while i trim the bottom off.
 
Thanks for the write up!!
I ordered my Kapex on Tuesday and every time I hear a truck come down the road I (and the dogs) run to the window..
Maybe Monday (I hope). I did order the Kapex with the 37mm hose, no crown stops at this point with the design of setting it built in my work bench with the bench top as outfeeds also building in the Kreg track set up. I'm sure at one point I will take it to some jobs but my intention is to keep it safe and clean at home. I too have the Dewalt 708 with the dewalt stand and have had it for about 10 years. Its heavy and bulky but I can split hairs with it and it has been out in snow storms (with me) working and it still works good.
I can't wait to get mine and complete my work bench area.
Thanks to Kreg for answering some questions for me about the saw and other goodies that he's got.
I appreciate this forum and the people in it, Woodworking is my job and my passion and its nice to see others as interested as I am!!
Thanks All  [big grin]
 
Thanks marc ,  glad I could help any other questions let me know and anybody else just call me or email me  my website has info

 
honeydokreg said:
Thanks marc ,  glad I could help any other questions let me know and anybody else just call me or email me  my website has info

...don't call while he's in the middle of making a video.  [wink]
 
gbruzze1, I agree with you on the DC. I too was a bit unimpressed by the dust collection when I first got the saw. I have the larger hose plus a CT22.

The lasers were off major when I unboxed the saw and was able to dial them in to a tee.

I also had a bit of oil leak out during the first few days of cutting near the arbor.

Now with the collection, I added a small thin piece of rubber matt cut in a V shape and I fixed it to the bottom of the dust collection boot. This thin flap I added to the boot hangs down maybe 2" from the bottom of the boot. Now no matter what I am cutting the majority of the dust is sucked up the boot and into the CT.

Now when I have the Kapex in my shop, I have it hooked up to my 2HP DC with a 3" hose, and that is pretty close to 95% of the dust getting sucked up.

After 30 years of using power miter boxes this is for sure the best I have ever used. Did I toss out my old Dewalt 705 or my 10" Makita, no but the Kapex was worth every penny.

I know some of my clients are very impressed with how clean I leave their home and this actually gets me more work...
 
great thread gbruzze1, very enjoyable read..."full bunny rabbit" ha ha cracks me up.
 
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