My first slab surfacing -- and question about appropriate router bits

[ear3]

I still had half the maple slab I used on a radiator table, so i decided to work the other half into a similar piece.  I was able to get away with just sanding the first half, because I chose the section with the least warping, but on this one I had no choice but to plane it with a router.  First time doing this -- I took a couple of pointers from the Wood Whisperer and used my workbench -- which is surprisingly flat even though it's just a piece of MDF with a poplar frame -- as the base.  I "jointed" a 2x6 with the tracksaw, then ripped two pieces of equal width on the table saw and clamped them to the table:

[attachthumb=1]

The guide was just plywood with a slot jigsawed in the middle for the bit:

[attachthumb=2]

[attachthumb=3]

Left about 1/16" of play in width for the 2200 to slide smoothly, and greased the bottom with some paste wax.

The bit I used was the Amana 1 1/2" straight bit (45452), which the 2200 handles with ease:

[attachthumb=4]

So here's the question -- I got the Amana bit because that was the largest one they had at the Festool dealer I go to in Wantaugh, but I was a bit disappointed to see the rough, scalloped surface it left on the board:

[attachthumb=5]

It was certainly nothing that couldn't be cleaned up with the RO150 -- I was able to sand it up to a glass finish in relatively short order, after starting with 80 grit in Rotex mode:

[attachthumb=6]

[attachthumb=7]

Is this just what I have to live with if I use this bit?  It's not as if the bit damaged the surface, or left prominent ridges between the router, but I'm wondering if there are other bits that would do a better job and leave a cleaner surface?  There's a post by [member=10581]Mauri Motti[/member] of a bench project in which he used a bit similar to the Amana RC-2251 surfacing bit, which has interchangeable cutters:  http://www.amazon.com/Amana-Spoilboard-Surfacing-Rabbeting-Flycutter/dp/B00O4THVNC/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1449786784&sr=1-1&keywords=Amana+RC-2251

Even though it's rated for a CNC machine, is it possible to still use it in the 2200 (I assume so, since he uses the 2200, but does it qualify as taking an unnecessary risk)?

The RC2251 is terribly expensive, however, and probably not worth it for something I won't use every day.  But is there something in between the ultra-expensive CNC surfacing bit and the relatively cheap straight bit that would be good for slab surfacing, which I want to try to do more of?

 

[rvieceli]

[member=37411]Edward A Reno III[/member]

I have the bit you are using and while it's ok I'm not particularly fond of it. I have been using this Amana bit for about a year and really like it. I think is a good value for about $80

http://www.amazon.com/Amana-Tool-Counter-Trimmer-Wings/dp/B000P4QFQ4/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1449787951&sr=1-1&keywords=Amana+57136

Here are some more detailed specs on it.

http://www.amanatool.com/products/router-bits/solid-surface-router-bits/counter-top-trim-router-bits/57136-carbide-tipped-countertop-countertop-trim-6-wing-solid-surface-2-1-16-dia-x-1-4-x-1-2-inch-shank.html

I am using it in a sled and a Festool OF2000. Cutting depth is about 1/4 but I always take shallow passes. It also has a good overall length at 3 5/16 inches by 2 1/16 diameter. Instead of a sharp point at the end of the carbide cutter there is bit of an angle which I think helps with reducing tear out. That bit you linked to is 2.5 inches long.

Sometimes I think that doing a back and forth cut contributes to the appearance of the "ridges", so I'll often only make a cutting pass going in the same direction. Sometimes I'll try to make long passes with the grain rather than cross grain passes. Sometimes it just happens but as you said they sand out fairly easily. I use an RS2

Here's a thread I started about my set up and some other folks hopped in with theirs.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/router-planing-sled/msg422040/#msg422040

Ron

 

[ear3]

That's really helpful, thanks [member=3192]rvieceli[/member] .  And I just saw that I left a comment in that thread -- guess I should have remembered.

[member=37411]Edward A Reno III[/member]

I have the bit you are using and while it's ok I'm not particularly fond of it. I have been using this Amana bit for about a year and really like it. I think is a good value for about $80

http://www.amazon.com/Amana-Tool-Counter-Trimmer-Wings/dp/B000P4QFQ4/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1449787951&sr=1-1&keywords=Amana+57136

Here are some more detailed specs on it.

http://www.amanatool.com/products/router-bits/solid-surface-router-bits/counter-top-trim-router-bits/57136-carbide-tipped-countertop-countertop-trim-6-wing-solid-surface-2-1-16-dia-x-1-4-x-1-2-inch-shank.html

I am using it in a sled and a Festool OF2000. Cutting depth is about 1/4 but I always take shallow passes. It also has a good overall length at 3 5/16 inches by 2 1/16 diameter. Instead of a sharp point at the end of the carbide cutter there is bit of an angle which I think helps with reducing tear out. That bit you linked to is 2.5 inches long.

Sometimes I think that doing a back and forth cut contributes to the appearance of the "ridges", so I'll often only make a cutting pass going in the same direction. Sometimes I'll try to make long passes with the grain rather than cross grain passes. Sometimes it just happens but as you said they sand out fairly easily. I use an RS2

Here's a thread I started about my set up and some other folks hopped in with theirs.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/router-planing-sled/msg422040/#msg422040

Ron

 

[Mauri Motti]

The bit I've been using is a CMT cutter Specifically;

spoil board surfacing router cutter HW
S=12    D=60X12X80mm    Z=2
Item number 663.002.11

Last time I've checked (several months ago) they show a similar (older) bit on their website but not specifically this one which came out (here in Europe) somewhere last year. The bit is huge but in the of2200 working like a charm. (including climb cutting on the sled, the heft one has with a 2200 is priceless) The rotatable/ replaceable insert cutters made me purchasing this bit. The bit can be used for CNC indeed. When I got it I called Festool Finland to ask them about the speed I could safely run this cutter in the 2200 and if wished so you can run the bit at full speed, no biggy. But of course depending on the type of wood/ sharpness of the inserts you may want to adjust speed accordingly. It was pricey, I believe I payed somewhere about 185 Euros VAT included. I would buy it again tomorrow if I'd had to.

Kind regards

 

[Mauri Motti]

Yet another thing..  [smile]

In the video I recall you see me using the router across the board, I do this to remove the bulk of the material, getting it flat. That what you do not see is that the final/ finishing cuts are made along the board as it leaves a much smoother finish and the board is surfaced already thus I take a light pass only. This, I hope, will help you getting a better surface before sanding.

 

[Cheese]

FWIW [member=10581]Mauri Motti[/member]
I went to the CMT website and it appears that they no longer make that bit with a 12mm shaft. The only one they now have has a 20mm shaft for CNC use. [sad] [sad]

 

[ear3]

Thanks much [member=10581]Mauri Motti[/member] , that makes a lot of sense doing a final pass with the grain.  And just to follow up on the query of  [member=44099]Cheese[/member] about the bit, to my eye the Amana bit looks almost exactly the same as the CMT: http://www.amazon.com/Amana-Spoilboard-Surfacing-Rabbeting-Flycutter/dp/B00O4THVNC

Basically the same price, too.

Yet another thing..  [smile]

In the video I recall you see me using the router across the board, I do this to remove the bulk of the material, getting it flat. That what you do not see is that the final/ finishing cuts are made along the board as it leaves a much smoother finish and the board is surfaced already thus I take a light pass only. This, I hope, will help you getting a better surface before sanding.

 

[Cheese]

[member=37411]Edward A Reno III[/member]
Thanks for the heads-up on the Amana cutter. It's an expensive piece but I really like the replaceable carbide inserts. I use all inserted tooling on the metal lathe and I'm trying to change over for woodworking projects also.  [thumbs up]

 

[Discap]

I do quite a bit of machine work on a Bridgeport mill. With a bit that size any tilt to the bit will cause it to cut scallops instead of a flat surface. This is sometimes handy like when I need a decorative scallop on a concave piece. It only has to be tilted a fraction of a degree for this to occur.

I can't see any way that you could use your set up without the scalloping. If the RO 150 took care of it then the tilt must have been pretty small.

Bill

 

[Dbn107]

Infinity sells a "mega planer bit".  I haven't used the bit myself but have been very happy with the dozen or so other router bits we own from infinity. 
http://www.infinitytools.com/1_2-Shank-Mega-Dado-Planer-Bit-2-CD-1-CH/productinfo/52-506/

 

[mo siopa]

As several have mentioned or alluded to above, deflection may be more of an issue than the bit.  MDF will deflect more than PB which will deflect more than solid wood.  Also, the wider the sled, the more it will deflect.  AND the wider the bit, the more effect the deflection will have.

Frankly, I don't see how bit quality would have any significant effect on this issue.

 

[travisj]

I prefer a "bowl & dish" carving bit.  They don't have the harsh 90 degree edges and by design won't leave the little swirls.
http://www.amanatool.com/45986-carb...adius-x-1-1-8-dia-x-5-8-x-1-2-inch-shank.html