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My SYS-PCH, or Power Charge Hub
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mino
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A couple comments /I had a similar project in the pipeline but scrapped now the SYS-charger was announced/:
- try add a power switch on the input, using a combined GFCI/breaker works pretty well for this purpose as it disconnects both N and L wires when off, so you do not have to unplug the lead any time you move away from it
- there are fire-retardant filaments now available for electrical stuff like this, this one looks like PET which is something you really, really do not want around power connections.
- ventilation, ventilation, ventilation, if you do not add a temperature control, add a slow USB-powered fan + exhaust combo on other side of the systainer, this works both to prevent overheating AND to ensure you would smell any starting fire before your shop is in flames
- when not used to charge, it would be nice to be able to close the systainer /and thus prevent mess getting into it/ while being ale to use the front sockets, hence having accommodation for the cable to exist while the systainer is closed
- lastly, the power sockets are not supported-enough, the front systainer wall is not strong enough making it likely they it would get ripped-open when a cable is pulled
Electricians use those special mineral-fibre fire-resistant plates to install stuff on wooded backings, get one of those, cut it and glue it using Mammut or other silicon-based glue to the wall so you can give as much as possible a backing to the outlet mounting screws /use big washers too/.
The fan I mention should be of an always-on type. These are sold as computer accessories. I thin Noctua makes one, though any 5V fan with USB plug will do and if one is proficient, soldering a 12V one known to work at 4V is even better as it is then super-quiet and the airflow is enough.
Yeah, a bunch of additional work and inspiration ... just reading from the notes I made when drafting my design.
- try add a power switch on the input, using a combined GFCI/breaker works pretty well for this purpose as it disconnects both N and L wires when off, so you do not have to unplug the lead any time you move away from it
- there are fire-retardant filaments now available for electrical stuff like this, this one looks like PET which is something you really, really do not want around power connections.
- ventilation, ventilation, ventilation, if you do not add a temperature control, add a slow USB-powered fan + exhaust combo on other side of the systainer, this works both to prevent overheating AND to ensure you would smell any starting fire before your shop is in flames
- when not used to charge, it would be nice to be able to close the systainer /and thus prevent mess getting into it/ while being ale to use the front sockets, hence having accommodation for the cable to exist while the systainer is closed
- lastly, the power sockets are not supported-enough, the front systainer wall is not strong enough making it likely they it would get ripped-open when a cable is pulled
Electricians use those special mineral-fibre fire-resistant plates to install stuff on wooded backings, get one of those, cut it and glue it using Mammut or other silicon-based glue to the wall so you can give as much as possible a backing to the outlet mounting screws /use big washers too/.
The fan I mention should be of an always-on type. These are sold as computer accessories. I thin Noctua makes one, though any 5V fan with USB plug will do and if one is proficient, soldering a 12V one known to work at 4V is even better as it is then super-quiet and the airflow is enough.
Yeah, a bunch of additional work and inspiration ... just reading from the notes I made when drafting my design.
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onocoffee
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Can you tell me more about the potential issues of PETG with electric?
mino
Member
Did you try playing with flame and PETG ?
Guess what. It melts, then it burns. BY ITSELF, meaning, it is enough to start a fire and the chemical energy stored in PET will take care of the rest ..
Fire-retardant plastics are made with additives such you can use (thermo-)plastics in places where previously only thermosets or ceramics were safe to use.
There are good reasons any power electrical stuff is legally-mandated to be made from fire-retardant plastics.
The only reason Festool could get away with the SYS-PH being made from /mostly/ ABS is because they have included a heat fuse that will turn off the power before a fire has the chance to break out. And that is with ABS which is able to handle higher temperatures than PETG can.
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- ventilation, ventilation, ventilation, if you do not add a temperature control, add a slow USB-powered fan + exhaust combo on other side of the systainer, this works both to prevent overheating AND to ensure you would smell any starting fire before your shop is in flames
You are overthinking this, both chargers have forced ventilation and enough space for air to ventilate. The lid will not be closed, as a matter of fact, when the batteries are on the charger the lid cannot close.
- when not used to charge, it would be nice to be able to close the systainer /and thus prevent mess getting into it/ while being ale to use the front sockets, hence having accommodation for the cable to exist while the systainer is closed
It gets the cutout, its not done yet
- lastly, the power sockets are not supported-enough, the front systainer wall is not strong enough making it likely they it would get ripped-open when a cable is pulled
Electricians use those special mineral-fibre fire-resistant plates to install stuff on wooded backings, get one of those, cut it and glue it using Mammut or other silicon-based glue to the wall so you can give as much as possible a backing to the outlet mounting screws /use big washers too/.
I am sorry but this is nonsense. The ABS is 3mm thick and the sockets are mounted with nuts and rings at the back, it is plenty strong enough.
You are overthinking this, both chargers have forced ventilation and enough space for air to ventilate. The lid will not be closed, as a matter of fact, when the batteries are on the charger the lid cannot close.
- when not used to charge, it would be nice to be able to close the systainer /and thus prevent mess getting into it/ while being ale to use the front sockets, hence having accommodation for the cable to exist while the systainer is closed
It gets the cutout, its not done yet
- lastly, the power sockets are not supported-enough, the front systainer wall is not strong enough making it likely they it would get ripped-open when a cable is pulled
Electricians use those special mineral-fibre fire-resistant plates to install stuff on wooded backings, get one of those, cut it and glue it using Mammut or other silicon-based glue to the wall so you can give as much as possible a backing to the outlet mounting screws /use big washers too/.
I am sorry but this is nonsense. The ABS is 3mm thick and the sockets are mounted with nuts and rings at the back, it is plenty strong enough.
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mino
Member
Sorry you took the comments as confrontational. They were not intended so.
You implemented something I was putting off for like two years. So happy for you on that.
Fire safety with power electrics is not to "be complaint". It is to not to burn one's house down.
Electrical safety /in having a way to conveniently turn off a potentially dangerous device/ is not "to be complaint" either. Two-wire 15A+ switches are relatively bulky, not much smaller than a breaker is. GFCI/CI combos are thus a practical way to introduce a high-amperage-rated power switch. I mentioned this because employing one was at the end of several iterations of figuring out how to put a compact-yet-powerful power switch on my design. I am absolutely fine with you thinking it is funny or stupid.
You implemented something I was putting off for like two years. So happy for you on that.
Fire safety with power electrics is not to "be complaint". It is to not to burn one's house down.
Electrical safety /in having a way to conveniently turn off a potentially dangerous device/ is not "to be complaint" either. Two-wire 15A+ switches are relatively bulky, not much smaller than a breaker is. GFCI/CI combos are thus a practical way to introduce a high-amperage-rated power switch. I mentioned this because employing one was at the end of several iterations of figuring out how to put a compact-yet-powerful power switch on my design. I am absolutely fine with you thinking it is funny or stupid.
Nice! Our national color.
Also there are a ton of cowboys in the solar panel and car charger business. Every single install that I checked had blatant code violations. Exposed bare wiring, missing conduit, wrong type GFCI, missing earth bonding, internal wiring with lower temperature rating, holes cut in distribution boxes instead of using proper entry accessories, cable sheating removed with a knife and half the wires in the cable cut to the bare copper, uncrimped ferrules, etc. etc.
And then there are the cooktop installers that have heard that 'fixed appliances with their own dedicated outlet don't have to be GFCI protected at all'. But they are missing the part where it says that if not using GFCI the ground fault loop impedance has to be so low (<2,9 Ohm in case of B16 MCB) that you can guarantee magnetic trip when making a hard earth fault.
And right next in line are the bathroom installers that install general use outlets in the bathroom on circuits without GFCI protection.
There are also a ton of malfunctioning GFCI's. There have been major recalls too, but only institutional landlords even do inspections.
The last home I did was from the 1980's, recently upgraded to 3-phase. The car charger and solar panels were added later, each behind a 300 mA RCBO.
Issues found:
Internal wiring messed up with multiple wires jammed in terminals that didn't allow for it (fire risk)
Wrong type wiring used (with lower temperature rating)
300 mA RCBO not allowed for car charger (30 mA mandatory)
Earth fault loop impedance > 166 Ohm (so even hard earth fault behind any of the 300 mA RCBO's to earthing of the installation wouldn't trip them)
So both car charger cowboy and solar panel cowboy (well, maybe cowgirl, but that has a different connotation) jammed a 300 mA RCBO into that install. For the solar panels that could have been allowed. But neither of them measured the earth fault impedance. There is a hard legal limit of 166 Ohm for the earth rod + connected wiring (that is part of the earth fault loop that can be higher), but for 300 mA GFCI the 166 Ohm is already the technical maximum for the earth fault loop.
The home right next to it had an even worse earth loop impedance by the way. So bad that you could achieve dangerous voltage on earthed appliances if you count up 50% of nominal risidual trip current for each 30 mA RCBO / GFCI. I wouldn't be surprised if the entire street has the same problems. And this will most likely continue untill someone gets zapped, the central gas boiler stops working or someone happens to catch a competent electrician with their solar / EV charger / .. installation.
I wonder how they came up with 96W; just shy of the original maximum of 100W (20V, 5A) of USB-C.
It is not. Any home with unaltered installation predating the GFCI becoming partly mandatory can still have none at all while being code compliant. The last time the rules were altered and applied to existing installations was in 1962. And worse; you can pretty much assume those old homes have their earth rod rotten away, so they don't even comply with the then-required low impedance earth fault path. In Belgium there is mandatory electrical inspection that you have to pass before you can legally sell an older home. In the Netherlands there isn't.
Also there are a ton of cowboys in the solar panel and car charger business. Every single install that I checked had blatant code violations. Exposed bare wiring, missing conduit, wrong type GFCI, missing earth bonding, internal wiring with lower temperature rating, holes cut in distribution boxes instead of using proper entry accessories, cable sheating removed with a knife and half the wires in the cable cut to the bare copper, uncrimped ferrules, etc. etc.
And then there are the cooktop installers that have heard that 'fixed appliances with their own dedicated outlet don't have to be GFCI protected at all'. But they are missing the part where it says that if not using GFCI the ground fault loop impedance has to be so low (<2,9 Ohm in case of B16 MCB) that you can guarantee magnetic trip when making a hard earth fault.
And right next in line are the bathroom installers that install general use outlets in the bathroom on circuits without GFCI protection.
There are also a ton of malfunctioning GFCI's. There have been major recalls too, but only institutional landlords even do inspections.
The last home I did was from the 1980's, recently upgraded to 3-phase. The car charger and solar panels were added later, each behind a 300 mA RCBO.
Issues found:
Internal wiring messed up with multiple wires jammed in terminals that didn't allow for it (fire risk)
Wrong type wiring used (with lower temperature rating)
300 mA RCBO not allowed for car charger (30 mA mandatory)
Earth fault loop impedance > 166 Ohm (so even hard earth fault behind any of the 300 mA RCBO's to earthing of the installation wouldn't trip them)
So both car charger cowboy and solar panel cowboy (well, maybe cowgirl, but that has a different connotation) jammed a 300 mA RCBO into that install. For the solar panels that could have been allowed. But neither of them measured the earth fault impedance. There is a hard legal limit of 166 Ohm for the earth rod + connected wiring (that is part of the earth fault loop that can be higher), but for 300 mA GFCI the 166 Ohm is already the technical maximum for the earth fault loop.
The home right next to it had an even worse earth loop impedance by the way. So bad that you could achieve dangerous voltage on earthed appliances if you count up 50% of nominal risidual trip current for each 30 mA RCBO / GFCI. I wouldn't be surprised if the entire street has the same problems. And this will most likely continue untill someone gets zapped, the central gas boiler stops working or someone happens to catch a competent electrician with their solar / EV charger / .. installation.
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@Coen I am well aware of everything you write and know the difference between paper and reality all to well.
I haven’t been active reading the FOG for quit some time and after many self cobbled contraptions with radios, cable reels and what not more in systainers with always a lot of positive comments I thought it would be nice to place a project here, also as an inspiration for others but I notice the tone has changed and become a lot more critical.
I haven’t been active reading the FOG for quit some time and after many self cobbled contraptions with radios, cable reels and what not more in systainers with always a lot of positive comments I thought it would be nice to place a project here, also as an inspiration for others but I notice the tone has changed and become a lot more critical.
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MacBoy
Member
Thank you for sharing — please continue.
The cautions given by others are also informative. Sometimes they are stern. It’s okay, that is part of their personality to be careful.
luvmytoolz
Member
The house we're in now the prior owner had added onto the building and had done all the work himself. I found multiple earth points vicariously connected to the gas pipes, water pipes, and stakes in the ground. We also discovered that in the back section that had been added on he'd swapped the neutral and active around, so depending on what you touched in the kitchen it was at mains potential, but wasn't necessarily obvious until you switched an appliance on.
Getting the entire property rewired with loads of extra capacity has been such an incredible relief for me! Very happy I spent the money on that.
No I like your project, that is the first thing I said in my post. I did go a bit too long on that one detail, but don't take it personal, please.