My Vote: No Off-Topic or Way Off or Totally Off

[Matthew Schenker]

Everyone,
I don't think John suggested getting rid of the off-topic board.  My interpretation was that he just wanted to see off-topc stuff moved to that board.  Beyond that, I think he's talking about having offensive stuff deleted, as I see fit.  I'm already moving stuff as needed.  Now I am starting to delete materials more often, also as needed.

I would not want to get rid of the off-topic board for fun and entertaining material, but I am in favor of putting more severe controls on personal gripes and political topics.

If I misunderstood, let me know.

Thanks,
Matthew

 

[Daviddubya]

Aye.

Here is how I think it might work.  Continue to have an Off-Topic Group including a Way Off-Topic board and a Far Side board (if it is still needed).  Do not show the posts to Way Off-Topic in Recent Posts.  The Far Side is already invisible to Recent Posts.  Folks that want to participate in Way Off-Topic or Far Side boards merely go there.  The postings to both Way Off-Topic and Far Side are out of the public eye, and do not clutter the woodworking topics.  Leave the other Off Topic boards as they are - Classifieds, etc.  Perhaps this is a solution that works for everyone.

 

[Matthew Schenker]

David,
There might be a way to modify the forum code, but the way it works now, I cannot make a board visible to everyone and yet have its posts invisible in the "recent posts" list.  You either see the board and the posts, or neither.

For example, the posts in "The Far Side" are invisible, unless you sign up for that board.  Then they show up in your "recent posts" list.  The "off topic" boards are visible to everyone, and the posts show up in the "revent posts" list.

The only other solution is to make the "Off Topic" area invisible unless people sign up for it.  That would keep it off the "recent posts" list for those people who don't want to see it.

But I will look into a way to modify the forum code to achieve what you're talking about.

Matthew

 

[JayStPeter]

Aye.

I stopped reading the FOG regularly back when bad things were happening.  I was pretty happy things were back to normal until the last couple weeks.
I'm not a fan of heavy handed moderation.  OTOH, my track record indicates I'm obviously less of a fan of flame wars.
Quick/quiet moderation will annoy those that get moderated.  But without drawn out discussions, most of us won't even know it's happening and will be happy in our ignorance  8).  Yes, I've been quickly and quietly moderated before on other boards.  But, when I asked the moderator why, the answer "'This statement you made' is unacceptable in the TOS" kind of makes you realize that you are out of line.  Sometimes a rewording of your post without a negative connotation is all that is necessary (and in most of my cases what was intended in the first place).

 

[alanz]

Keep in mind that this isn't a real voting situation... perhaps the original poster's topic title is misleading.

This is a thread an individual voiced his preference as to the type of content he wanted to see, and the rest of us are voicing our preferences as to the type of content suitable for the forum.

There's no outcome implied by the messages logged here.

The ultimate decision is up to Matthew, and the input should be only one of the factors weighed into the final decision.

 

[BarryL]

Jay and Alanz...you both hit the nail on the head in my opinion!  Both of your posts make good sense and I agree with what you have said.

Aye here!

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Good afternoon,
Yes, I don't think John wanted a poll, or he would have included one.

Thank you Jay and Alanz.  I'm also not a fan of heavy moderation, as most members can see.  But too-light moderation is not necessarily the answer!

I'm approaching a proper balance, and I'll follow that from now on.

Thanks again everyone,
Matthew

 

[sw1211]

Who's going to moderate the moderator?  Any of your personal one on one battles, emails, gripes, etc with the other forum or their members should be kept private and should not show up on the boards here.  Seems like the majority of the time others start complaining about the other forum is when they're responding to a thread you've started.  Just my $.02  Delete, move, edit posts to your hearts content, if left alone most topics will run their course in a few days and fizzle out.

 

[bigwoody]

Who's going to moderate the moderator?  Any of your personal one on one battles, emails, gripes, etc with the other forum or their members should be kept private and should not show up on the boards here.  Seems like the majority of the time others start complaining about the other forum is when they're responding to a thread you've started. 

Good points, Steve.

If anyone were to read through the entire Talk Festool forum today they would find little mention of this forum at all (good or bad), right back to the very beginning. Stop bringing them up here and most of the problem would be autmatically solved.

 

[butzla]

Does this mean that this thread will be deleted then?

 

[nickao]

Much simpler to get rid of it all because everyone does not have the same sense of humor and it is always going to be a problem. I have offended people and was in awe that any took  offense, so you will always be a referee Matthew.

I think John meant what he said. ONLY woodworking discussions is what I got from his proposal and I am all for that, nothing but woodworking, it sure would keep it simple.

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Good Afternoon,
I'm listening to everything being discussed here, and I can promise that the solution I come up with will finally take care of this issue, allowing us to focus much more on tools and woodworking.  I'm putting it together today.
Thanks everyone,
Matthew

 

[woodshopdemos]

So no more "Computer, Gadgets, Technology", "Photography","Classifieds"  I will miss them.  

I don't think this will work.  I remember some other postings about people getting mad because Matt did that, did this, did whatever and now we are asking him to just delete posts, that will be a declaration of war for some.  I don't think this is a good idea.

Keep the far side forum and visible for people requesting access. Give it a rest about this.

I do not think those subjects fail the test. For example, the photo pf woodworking items is woodworking.

 

[woodshopdemos]

Everyone,
I don't think John suggested getting rid of the off-topic board.  My interpretation was that he just wanted to see off-topc stuff moved to that board.  Beyond that, I think he's talking about having offensive stuff deleted, as I see fit.  I'm already moving stuff as needed.  Now I am starting to delete materials more often, also as needed.

I would not want to get rid of the off-topic board for fun and entertaining material, but I am in favor of putting more severe controls on personal gripes and political topics.

If I misunderstood, let me know.

Thanks,
Matthew

You misunderstood. I wanted any and all non-wood stuff be deep sixed. But Matthew, I dont really mind if you use off-topic for a lot of this...it puts more work onto you and for marginal returns in my book. I absolutely believe in your ownership and therefore, you decide what can work within your scope.

 

[Brice Burrell]

You misunderstood. I wanted any and all non-wood stuff be deep sixed. But Matthew, I dont really mind if you use off-topic for a lot of this...it puts more work onto you and for marginal returns in my book. I absolutely believe in your ownership and therefore, you decide what can work within your scope.

I'd like to see the off topic section stay. Like John, I believe in your ownership and you should be able to find a balance that offers the best returns even if that means getting rid of the off topic area.

 

[sw1211]

Just getting rid of a section doesn't mean people will stay on topic, just look how some threads start and then take many twists and turns.  To say a forum will ONLY discuss tools is a bit naive.  People are posting, not robots.

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Good Evening,
I've come up with a plan that keeps the off-topic discussions available to people who want to see them, and yet also hides them from the "recent posts" list for people who do not.

I've already created a "Far Side" section.  Tonight, I renamed it "The Far Side & Way Off-Topic."  This area currently contains just "The Far Side" as an opt-in only board.  I will soon move the "Way Off-Topic" board into this opt-in only section.  I will add an explanatory note about it, just as I have done for "The Far Side."  That way, will have both of these boards tucked away neatly in their own section.

Both boards will be invisible unless you ask to opt into them.  But it will be very clear and easy to opt in, if you choose.

You will be able to opt into both of these boards, or just one or the other -- as you choose.

Keep in mind, we're only talking about "Way Off-Topic."  The "Computers, Gadgets, Technology," "Photography," and "Classifieds" boards will remain as is.  Those discussions are helpful, and no one has complained about them.

The advantage here is that anything in "Way Off-Topic" or "The Far Side" will not appear on the "recent posts" list for those of you who do not wish to see them.  For people who want to see it, it will be visible to them.

I'll implement this concept tomorrow.  But I wanted to give people a chance to hear about this before I moved anything, so there are no surprises.

I think this will solve our problems.

Thanks again everyone for discussing this in a constructive manner.

Matthew

 

[sw1211]

Are two hidden boards really needed, who's to decide Way Off Topic vs Way Way Off Topic?  Seems like one hidden board just called Way Off Topic would suffice.  Other than that seems like a viable solution.

 

[nickao]

I do think woodshopdemos is correct. Photography is certainly a woodworking item. You need to know how to shoot your projects.

"Computer, Gadgets, Technology", "Photography","Classifieds"

The above are ALL woodworking items. I use everyone of those in my woodworking business almost everyday.

I thought the topics we already have all stay and anything not listed goes into the areas Matthew wants to make. Like politics, religion, etc, there are no current topics for those. To me every category we already have except way off and far side are woodworking topics or have little or no problems at all. Isn't it only the way off topics that create a stir?

Think of it this way. Pretend you are running a woodworking business or web site, anything you can think of to run those are woodworking to me. And I mean the mandatory minimum items to run a current online or site business only. Some people want to run a Christian based company, but that is not mandatory to run a woodworking business so it is not included, etc.

I think every category has worked well other than the way off threads. Even the far side is working. Of course I want to sign up for both personally and I am sure anyone that joins me will certainly bond with me more and get to know me better too. If you do not want that great, do not sign up.

Actually, in the far side I really think anything should go except swearing. Flaming and everything allowed. Knowing this just make a rule NO FAR SIDE TOPICS CAN BE COMPLAINED ABOUT PERIOD and after a two complaints are made from the same person(that are not about swearing) take them out of the far side area, they can not handle it. You should never ever have to modify or take complaints on far side threads, actually if you want I would be glad to moderate that single area for swearing if you like. Then you never ever need to hear about it. They can PM me a complaint and if it is swearing I will pass it to you, if not I will explain to them the rules of the far side and if they do not like it I will forward them to you for deletion from that area. Having it set up this way the guys that bring up free speech will not have a leg to stand on.  Maybe you can call it the Free speech area, meaning NO profanity(no demeaning family members too and profanity to be determined by the moderator of that section) but anything else goes. Of course any of my thoughts can be expanded on or maybe a few other No NO's can be listed, but not many.

Just an offer to reduce your headaches Matthew.

The way off topic will still have the current rules in place, but "far side free speech area" should be just that, if two guys want to argue let them. With a second way off "far side" area I think it should be open to almost anything otherwise why have two areas?

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Are two hidden boards really needed, who's to decide Way Off Topic vs Way Way Off Topic?  Seems like one hidden board just called Way Off Topic would suffice.  Other than that seems like a viable solution.

Of course, it would be easier for me to create a single off-topic area rather than have "The far Side" and "Way Off-Topic" as two separate boards.  Perhaps I'll do that in the future.  For now, let's set it up the way I described -- as two separate boards -- and see how it works.  It seems that, within off-topic, a lot of people still make the dintinction between these two types of discussions.  We can always come back to this later.

This seems to be a good compromise, I'd like to opt-in for both the Far Side & Way Off-Topic, thanks.

OK, you are in.

By the way, I should add the everything that appears in "The Far Side" or "Way Off-Topic" is invisible to Google searches.

Thanks,
Matthew