Need opinions on the Kapex- choosing a new model over the older one

[idratherplaytennis]

I'll preface this by saying, I do know about the motor burn out issues and with that said- I'm trying to research this more for my father, his uses, etc compared to my own personal opinions.

Background: He's currently interested (or at least may have been before my pessimism got the better of over explaining things to him) in getting a Kapex finally. He's used an old 10" Delta miter for decades and recently used or saw the advantages of using sliding compound miter saws (I loaned him 1 of my 2 10" Makita's, the corded one because I've been too cheap and not ready for the Kapex to blow a hole in my pocket) while helping my old scout troop with an eagle project doing miters that would have taken two cuts each with his old saw in some composite decking material. He is retired and we own rental apartments which we do owner-builder remodels on occasion as well as basic maintenance- nothing high end but he likes to do things to the best of his ability with very high standards regardless. In addition to basic work like helping the boy scouts with their Eagle projects- he would be keeping the Kapex at home in his garage which he plans to turn into his life-long dream of a decent woodshop and it wouldn't undergo the use that a typical contractor/production outfit would need to survive.

The question is that since they came out with the 2019 model- in your opinions, should he get the older version for $1106 as opposed to the new version which is $1475? I do realize how personal a question is, just looking for some insights from others who have used one or both of the saws, plus my father is one of those people who love a deal- no matter the size, but $300 less is still a good deal.

The old version is still available on Amazon (which until last night, I wasn't even aware that they were an authorized seller) and available at about $300 less. If it were for my own personal use- I would definitely prefer to bite the bullet and go for the newer version from a personal standpoint- but I'm 34 as opposed to 70- and I would like the added assurance that the tool might stand the test of time for myself. Concurrently, and because it is not for my own primary use, I know there are a LOT of people out there who have the older version and used it significantly without trouble or failure which is why I think for him, it may be a good buy (particularly also because I eventually will be getting one of my own, and I like new shiny Festool-smelling green things).

If you made it this far and are glad to offer your input, I am deeply appreciative- I want him to have the best experience (particularly since this will be his first personal Festool purchase for himself- he only knows of the quality because I have maybe 5 sanders and a router which I will swear by any day of the week. Thank you-

 

[ChuckM]

I like deals too, like your dad, so I'd jump on the $300 less deal if it was from a brick-and-motar store.

Given the stories about damages caused by shipping/delivery, I'm a bit worried. If your dad doesn't mind about the risk and the possible extra follow-up work (claim, return etc.) if the saw did arrive damaged, then I'd suggest the Amazon deal.

I hate buying something big and pricey and having to go through returns via courier.

By the way, no one should regret buying the Kapex (unless the motor smokes or it has other defective issues such a non-flat table, etc.). Properly tuned, it delivers results that even the finest and most demanding woodworkers won't complain about.

 

[Birdhunter]

I love buying small items from Amazon, but would never consider buying an expensive high precision tool from them. They just do not package large items well.

I strongly suggest buying from a “real” store.

 

[dpped]

I just purchased an older 2018 model from a knowledgeable retailer in Toronto. The price different was about $500.

They advertised and i verified with a festool rep that the 2018 models they sell now have the new 2019 model motor in it, and it will not have any issue's the previous generation did with burnt motors.

Not sure if this helps, but perhaps you can do what i did. Get an older model, with a newer motor and save significantly on the price.
https://www.atlas-machinery.com/festool/fes-561287

 

[PeppaPig]

Amazon isn't the seller - it's Hartville tools, and they will be shipping the saw to you in Los Angeles from Ohio using FedEx and that is quite a journey.  Basically Hartville is going to ship it in a single wall cardboard box that has some foam inserts....

Did you see the thread I started:https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/...-kapex-purchase-concerns/msg593809/#msg593809

I returned the first saw that I bought from Amazon/Hartville and ordered the second Kapex directly from Hartville, but it did not end up any better.

Festool Support and some people on the forum kind of 'blew off' the grease leaking problem (it just seeped out from the arbor bearing kind of thing)  - but if you actually look into it, you can see the grease apparently is from the gear box/transmission which is in a machined compartment with an O-Ring seal.  There is no way that anything should be able to 'leak out' unless the saw was stored or shipped upside down for an extended period of time and was able to seep along the motor shaft.  (pics in the other thread)

Hartville was great to deal with - but they said they would not send me a third saw, so I have another week or two to make up mind if I want to keep the one I currently have or not.  Like your father, I like a good deal, which is the main reason why I purchased it.

Bottom line - you have nothing to lose by ordering it from Amazon/Hartville.  If there is any issues at all, just return it as defective.  (Leaking grease from the transmission is a defect and Festool suggested I either return the saw or send it in to them for repairs)

Your best bet is to try to find one local that you can actually look at in the store, but I don't think that is going to happen at this point.  (Hartville kind of cornered the market on the discontinued saws)

 

[hemlock]

I put off a Kapex for almost a decade.  Like you, it was the sale and reports of the motor being "fixed" that made me reconsider it.  I did a bit of research and I believe the newer EB (old kapex model) and the REB (new model) are the same saw except for the wings and where the angle gauge is stored.  Here is my summary of why I concluded that....it may be of help.
https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/kapex-eb-sale-curiouser-and-curiouser/

I ended up buying a new build EB on line for 1106 and it was damaged in shipping so I returned it and bought one from my local woodcraft that is perfect for almost the same price.  I can't say enough about this saw...its really too bad there are so many bad stories about it due to how the engine issue was handled...its an impressive tool.  Even for the full price IMHO.  I thought my bosch glide was a good saw, and it is, but it does not compare to the kapex now that I have used both.  Good luck.   

 

[dpped]

Amazon isn't the seller - it's Hartville tools, and they will be shipping the saw to you in Los Angeles from Ohio using FedEx and that is quite a journey.  Basically Hartville is going to ship it in a single wall cardboard box that has some foam inserts....

Did you see the thread I started:https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/...-kapex-purchase-concerns/msg593809/#msg593809

I returned the first saw that I bought from Amazon/Hartville and ordered the second Kapex directly from Hartville, but it did not end up any better.

Festool Support and some people on the forum kind of 'blew off' the grease leaking problem (it just seeped out from the arbor bearing kind of thing)  - but if you actually look into it, you can see the grease apparently is from the gear box/transmission which is in a machined compartment with an O-Ring seal.  There is no way that anything should be able to 'leak out' unless the saw was stored or shipped upside down for an extended period of time and was able to seep along the motor shaft.  (pics in the other thread)

Hartville was great to deal with - but they said they would not send me a third saw, so I have another week or two to make up mind if I want to keep the one I currently have or not.  Like your father, I like a good deal, which is the main reason why I purchased it.

Bottom line - you have nothing to lose by ordering it from Amazon/Hartville.  If there is any issues at all, just return it as defective.  (Leaking grease from the transmission is a defect and Festool suggested I either return the saw or send it in to them for repairs)

Your best bet is to try to find one local that you can actually look at in the store, but I don't think that is going to happen at this point.  (Hartville kind of cornered the market on the discontinued saws)

Read your post. I physically picked mine up from the store, box was mint, saw was packaged perfectly. I have a bit of dust on the exhaust port which i'm not too concerned about.

It seems this Hartville/amazon retailer isn't the greatest. Perhaps You can get a price match with a local store and pick it up in person. A $1500 saw shouldn't have a broken box - that's for sure

 

[RKA]

I think the $300 savings is worth it.  The improvements to the new saw are minor in my opinion. Regardless which model you go with, he will appreciate its light weight compared to many other models if he is transporting the to the apartments.  I move mine between the basement, garage and sometimes outside and I love how compact it is.

 

[PeterJJames13]

I'll add my opinion here. First, I agree with buying local. And establish a relationship with your dealer of choice. It's no secret the "gentle hands of brown" aren't so gentle. A big ticket items like a Kapex can get banged around too much for my liking. I'm fortunate to live down the road from FestoolProducts.Com so I consider myself very lucky. They always have whatever I want and know their stuff. And they're a five minute detour on my way to work. Regarding new vs old Kapex.... I own both. I honestly don't care for the new one. I keep one in the shop and one for the road. The newer one is in the shop. I still use the older version more. I don't care for the location of the angle guide on the new one. The side tables don't make much difference in my opinion. Everything else seems the same to me. I'd definitely save the coin and get the older one. Use the money you save on a spare blade. YMMV of course. I never had a problem with the older Kapex and don't see the point of the new one. I think Festool just wants to put the older model to bed given the complaints.

 

[idratherplaytennis]

Amazon isn't the seller - it's Hartville tools, and they will be shipping the saw to you in Los Angeles from Ohio using FedEx and that is quite a journey.  Basically Hartville is going to ship it in a single wall cardboard box that has some foam inserts....

Did you see the thread I started:https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/...-kapex-purchase-concerns/msg593809/#msg593809

I returned the first saw that I bought from Amazon/Hartville and ordered the second Kapex directly from Hartville, but it did not end up any better.

Festool Support and some people on the forum kind of 'blew off' the grease leaking problem (it just seeped out from the arbor bearing kind of thing)  - but if you actually look into it, you can see the grease apparently is from the gear box/transmission which is in a machined compartment with an O-Ring seal.  There is no way that anything should be able to 'leak out' unless the saw was stored or shipped upside down for an extended period of time and was able to seep along the motor shaft.  (pics in the other thread)

Hartville was great to deal with - but they said they would not send me a third saw, so I have another week or two to make up mind if I want to keep the one I currently have or not.  Like your father, I like a good deal, which is the main reason why I purchased it.

Bottom line - you have nothing to lose by ordering it from Amazon/Hartville.  If there is any issues at all, just return it as defective.  (Leaking grease from the transmission is a defect and Festool suggested I either return the saw or send it in to them for repairs)

Your best bet is to try to find one local that you can actually look at in the store, but I don't think that is going to happen at this point.  (Hartville kind of cornered the market on the discontinued saws)

AHHHHH Amazon strikes again!!! I totally missed the shipped from and sold by. I'm usually very careful about that on ANYTHING I get off Amazon. That alone would make me more hesitant to purchase that. I've done Beaver Tools in the past because of great reviews of packaging but that was for the RAS recently and my local store only had one in stock which was a bit scratched up and I prefer to be the one to make my own scratches on my tools (if they were to get them).

I do prefer certain brick and mortar stores for certain items normally, particularly my Festool- I've bought from the same place locally each time even though the 10.25% sales tax on top of the high Festool premium just hurts... but that's something else entirely, not their fault.

I'll talk it over again with my father- I've had issues in the past (along with others in my family) when I bought through Amazon and it wasn't fulfilled through them and things arrived with damages. I worked for FedEx: Ground in college loading their semi-trailers and I know how lots of different packages of various types are handled, the small heavy as sin ones, the air-light boxes, the ones that are packaged poorly, etc. I think it may make more sense as some have said to look into the refurbished ones with the newer motors in the older housings or to just get the new one.

The discount is nice... but it's not worth the headache if there's an issue. I purchased a RO150 earlier in the year on a Saturday at a different Festool dealer near me than my normal one because my normal place isn't open weekends and I needed the Rotex for a job, and when I went to change out the paper on a different job a few months later, part of the stick fix was peeling away from the padding. I checked with my local guy and while he had never heard of it happening, he would have replaced it had I not been honest and said I bought it from the place 3 miles away because I needed it on the weekend.. etc etc. He suggested I talk to their Festool guy who he knew by name, so I was lucky and got that fixed free without shipping anything and he just swapped my pad out- but it just goes to show that for some things, it really does pay to buy locally- especially if there is a problem.

Thanks everyone- I really appreciated the input. Hearing your opinions opened my mind up to see it a different way- mostly the route of "what if..." worst case and needing help- local definitely helps. I'll see what my local places' offerings are!

 

[Cheese]

Check in with your local Woodcraft store. The one here had a pallet full that they were selling at a discount. Can't remember the price...I just remember the pallet.  [wink]

 

[FestitaMakool]

Given what I have been reading here, the new REB (That I have) differs in a new motor design (but probably same as the “sorted” EB version), a new place but less handy for the angle gauge, a new dust port design which accepts the newer 27 mm bayonet tool connection, and extendable side wings.

If I could have saved a lot of money, I would definitely bought that former EB version, with a new motor. As the other “improvements” does very little, if none.

 

[Bob Mircetic]

I just recently received my Kapex that I bought from the Festool Recon site on Black Friday.

I too had been debating for a while about buying the older model or paying more for the new one.
In the end, I figured (hoped) that Festool wouldn't still be putting the old problem motors out into circulation, and the price on the Recon site was too good to pass up.

Regarding shipping, my box took a hit that punctured the outer and inner cardboard.  Opening it up, I got a little nervous as the styrofoam appeared to be destroyed on one side:
View attachment 1

Going over the saw, I found some damage to the plastic housing at the back of the rails.  Not sure if that damage was shipping related, or I suppose it could have gone out the door that way as a Reconditioned tool:
View attachment 2

That being said, I love it.  I haven't found any operational issues with it yet.  The cut alignment and lasers might be just a hair off, so slight that I probably won't even mess with it.  It's better than I was able to get my current Hitachi. The bevel adjustment is a dream.  I know it's the "honeymoon" period now, but so far I'm thrilled and glad I (finally) bought it.

 

[southrider]

Bought a "sale" EB from Hartville last month. Started using it this week. I'm trimming out a small office building that we just bought. This saw is fantastic. I currently have a 12" Bosch Glide saw permanently mounted in my shop. It will stay there for now and cut 2x material, treated lumber, etc. The Kapex is mounted on a 20 year old Ridgid miter saw UV which works very well.

About the saw - I am amazed with the accuracy of cuts. 7" baseboard - no problem, base cap a breeze. The twin laser sure makes an accurate measurement easy to cut. Angles stay true. I have loved the Bosch, but there still is a noticeable difference in ease of use with the Kapex

Mine arrived with zero problems - even though the box was a little disheveled. Square and accurate out of the box.

With the updated motor circuitry - I can see no reason to pay the higher price for the REB as the EB bought on sale still gets the full 3 yr warranty (as opposed to recon sale 1 yr).

I held off on buying one of these a long time due to the problems, but I can't stress just how much easier it is to use than any other saw I've tried.

 

[peter halle]

I just recently received my Kapex that I bought from the Festool Recon site on Black Friday.

I too had been debating for a while about buying the older model or paying more for the new one.
In the end, I figured (hoped) that Festool wouldn't still be putting the old problem motors out into circulation, and the price on the Recon site was too good to pass up.

Regarding shipping, my box took a hit that punctured the outer and inner cardboard.  Opening it up, I got a little nervous as the styrofoam appeared to be destroyed on one side:
View attachment 1

Going over the saw, I found some damage to the plastic housing at the back of the rails.  Not sure if that damage was shipping related, or I suppose it could have gone out the door that way as a Reconditioned tool:
View attachment 2

That being said, I love it.  I haven't found any operational issues with it yet.  The cut alignment and lasers might be just a hair off, so slight that I probably won't even mess with it.  It's better than I was able to get my current Hitachi. The bevel adjustment is a dream.  I know it's the "honeymoon" period now, but so far I'm thrilled and glad I (finally) bought it.

There is no way anyone I know at Festool would have allowed that kind of damage to leave their corporate home.  I would suggest that you contact them about that damage which I believe is shipping related and see if it is an easy part swap or an exchange.

Offered Respectfully.

Peter

 

[xedos]

There seems to be a lot of faith being put into the "new motor" and that it will makes things all better.

Call me skeptical, but I think at this juncture the faith is unwarranted.  Remember this is a bit of a stealth upgrade from the same people who designed a motor that clearly has had issues in its 110v version. Yet first told us there was no problem. Then told us we were using it improperly. And now have upgraded a motor that supposedly had no problems.

I'm having a hard time feeling warm and fuzzy about whether the issue has really been addressed since there was never any world on said issue in the first place. Clearly the change and resulting buzz and sale has had the desired effect on getting most people to overcome the reluctance generated by the past Kapex motor issues.  But I can't help to wonder if the designers have really figured out why a significant number of these motors do not last a decade or longer without issue.

Motor aside, it's still an accurate, light saw with many features other saws don't have. I just think buyers should still factor in the motor longevity when deciding on one.

 

[Cheese]

Not sure if that damage was shipping related, or I suppose it could have gone out the door that way as a Reconditioned tool:

Hey [member=5310]bobmeister[/member]  having purchased probably a dozen items from Festool Recon...there is no way Festool would allow that Kapex to exit its facility with that type of damage. A few scuffs or a little dust, ya that's fair game, however a puncture through the plastic housing...no way, that's shipping damage.

Contact Festool and they'll make you whole...guaranteed.  [smile]