Need your help building an interior door, please.

[bhendrix]

I am going to fabricate an interior passage door. The passage opening is 47" wide by 9' tall.  The plan is to fabricate a standard 36" x 80" four panel door and frame it into the opening to mimick the armoire pic attached.  A transom will be built above the door so a chandilier will be visible.  The armoire is mahogany with croch mahogony panels.  

Questions:

What materials would you use for rail/stile and panels?
Are dominoes a sufficient tenon for joinery?
What router bit set should I use for rail/stile?
What other things do I need to consider?

I have extension experience in cabinet fabrication and trim work, but have not yet fabricated a passage door.

Thanks for your teachings!!

[attachimg=#]

 

[woodguy7]

Bill,

Use solid timber for the stiles & rails & possibly some sort of veneered board for the panels if they are flat.  If the panels are to be fielded, then they will also need to be solid timber.  I would never use dominoes on a full sized door like that.  I have a Domino jointer & think it is a fantastic piece of kit but for a door that size & weight i would always use mortise & tennon joinery.

Other advise, use Festool sanders, they rule 

Woodguy

 

[Brice Burrell]

Bill, I think Woodguy has some good input here. This could be a tough project for your first door. If I were in your shoes I'd have the door made and install it myself. But since you asked. The molding looks raised like applied molding for wainscoting. You could rout shallow grooves for the panels and apply molding. I'd use loose tenons for the stiles and rails (no rail/stile bit set necessary) and MDF with mahogany veneer. But sure to let us know how this project turns out.    

 

[Chuck Kiser]

Bill,

You have been given some good information thus far. I do take some exception about the Domino not being suitable. The tool was made for this application. Using the optimal sized Domino tenon for the thickness of the material you will have no problem. And remember, there is no reason you cannot stack Domino tenons on top of each other properly spaced throughout the material thickness.

 

[chrisrosenb]

Bill, I think Woodguy has some good input here. This could be a tough project for your first door. If I were in your shoes I'd have the door made and install it myself. But since you asked. The molding looks raised like applied molding for wainscoting. You could rout shallow grooves for the panels and apply molding. I'd use loose tenons for the stiles and rails (no rail/stile bit set necessary) and MDF with mahogany veneer. But sure to let us know how this project turns out.    

Brice, the doors are frame & panel construction. The panel is thinner than the door frame. The molding is applied, but is thicker on the panel edge than the frame edge.

 

[bhendrix]

Hi Folks,

Chris is correct.  Sorry I didn't specify further.  The door is frame and panel with applied molding similar to library molding.  On the Armoire, the panel face is recessed 3/8" from the frame face.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Brice, the doors are frame & panel construction. The panel is thinner than the door frame. The molding is applied, but is thicker on the panel edge than the frame edge.

Right, that's what I was talking about, I believe the correct term is panel molding.

 

[Wonderwino]

Hi, Bill.  Sounds like good advice so far.  MDF core panels will be the most stable.  Solid mahogany has been used for doors forever, so that would be a good choice.  Eiji Fuller built some solid doors from mahogany using 4 dominos to join the rails & stiles, and as far as I know, it worked fine.  He has also used them on stairs.  The chioce of glue may be more critical than the domino vs. larger loose tennon.

You should approach this as if you are building a piece of furniture, that happens to be a door.  You will also have a lot of interesting work framing the opening down to the 36x80 size.  Can you get mahogany mouldings in the profiles you need or will you be custom milling them with a router?

 

[bhendrix]

Hi Alex,

I got your phone message, but I was in Breckenridge skiing with my daughter and had limited phone service.  Sorry I missed you!!

There is some limited supply of mahogony molding available, but some of it will have to be fabricated.

What glue do you think will be best?

 

[woodguy7]

Bill

I know some people here suggest that Dominoes will be fine for the main joints.  I have never used Dominoes for a full sized door but if others have tried it & say it works fine then i couldn't argue with that.  I would just be concerned with the weight.  I make my living doing bench joinery doing stairs, windows, doors ect for the last 24 years so i do have an idea of what i am talking about when suggesting mortise & tennon joints.  Certainly in my area, no professional workshop would entertain the idea of using Domino's for the main joints.

I'm not saying you shouldn't do it but giving you my opinion based on 24 years of doing this,

Woodguy

 

[Wonderwino]

I'll be back to ICT in a few weeks.

Here is a page from Eiji's portfolio.  I recall that he used dominos for all his assembly:

http://www.fullerbuilt.com/untitled1.html

2 over 2 on the stiles, I would guess the 10x50mm size.

 

[woodguy7]

Wonderwino

I did read this thread on the doors Eiji built & they look fantastic.  All i can say is if they are good enough for Eiji then that says it all  [cool]

Woodguy

 

[Wonderwino]

I have had good luck with Titebond III on hardwood.  I think its thinner viscosity and longer open time let it soak into tight pore better than the thicker glues.  I usually apply one thin coat and then another on end grain just before joining.

 

[woodguy7]

Never used no 3.  have tried titebond 2 & thought it was ok, but have read that 3 is much better.

 

[Warrior]

+1 on the tightbond3! love the stuff. 
Mahogany is actually a pretty light wood and if Im correct there is going to be 3 connections on each side of the frame or 3 rails connecting the 3 vertical styles of the door. A total of 10 connections! This frame assembly would easily be twice the strength of you standard single panel door. You will be able to hang a gorrilla off this thing without any problems at all, using dominoes, dowels, M & T, even biscuits. as long as your joints are cut well and you have a good glue bond. The dominoe cut very nice joints indeed.

When Im making doors I like to use home made dominoes of the same species of timber that the door is. The homemade dominoes are sized to fit the widest and deepest domino mortise  I'll use 4 dominoes/joint in the upper and mid styles and 6 - 8 dominoes for the bottom rail.

You can give me a call if you have any questions.
# is on my website.

Cheers,

Eiji

 

[Warrior]

I know Im going to get slammed even mentioning biscuit joinery for doors. I havent used biscuits but it doesnt mean they are not strong enough. Just remember there are a minimum of 4 joints in a door all supporting each other. as you increase the number of panels the number of supporting frame joints goes up as does the overall strength of a door.

I didnt just wing it and say "what the heck, the domino should be strong enough!" I did some research first. That way I know the doors I build will be strong enough before I build them.

check out this. its a nice read http://www.woodworking.org/WC/GArchive98/Abstract/abstract1.html

 

[Nigel]

  Interesting link Eiji,most people have the view that biscuits are only for locating.This link says otherwise.I have never had a biscuit joint fail although I haven't used them for doors but I have made beds,cabinets and chests of drawers.As far as I know kitchen cabinets in Europe are built entirely with biscuits.No screws.No problems.
Nigel.

 

[woodguy7]

Eiji

That's a good idea of using the widest slot on the Donimo & then making your own tenons from the same material.  I have never thought of doing that & will give it a try.  The standard Dominoe's have the grooves ect for the glue, do you do anything to yours ?

Cheer's, Woodguy.

 

[jacko9]

Eiji,

I'm a little late to this discussion and you may already have built your door.  My experience with Mahogany doors is that if using Honduras Mahogany it may not be light as you might think and I have built several out that material although, they were exterior doors 1 3/4" thick.  I have a Domino Joiner which I love but, a door that heavy is not a suitable use of the tool IMHO.  The doors that I have built have 8" top and bottom rails and a 6" lock rail.  I have used twin haunched tenons 4" deep into the Styles and used Tidebond glue for the joints.  I also installed ball bearing hinges for smooth operation.  

 

[-woodsman-]

I kinda skipped through this thread but my [2cents] is this. If the door is not going to get heavy traffic I might consider using Spanish cedar for the rails and styles. the grain and color is very similar to mahogany while being considerably lighter in weight. Maby you would have to do a slightly reder staid to get it to match the panels.  For the joinery on the door I would suggest a through tenon to maximise the gluing surface. Like the tenon in this pic but it travels completely through the stile (left long to cut after gluing) . the edge grain of which would be visible if you where looking at the end grain of the stile.  Lay it out in thirds of the stock thickness.  The tenon being one third of the total.  This could be pined with dowels.  If it was me I would spend the money on the solid stock for the panels but you could have a cabinet shop veneer 5/8 MDF.    Sometimes its easier to outsource these things.  The panel molding would act as a stop for the panels.  Also make a couple of extra parts when you are milling it up.  Mistakes happen [crying]. If you are still in the planning phase of this I could take a couple of pics this weekend of a co workers door. Its solid mahogany through tennoned.  It has bin in for 8-10 years and looks grate.