New Dominos with no registration pins? What the....

[Warrior]

I saw in another post a pic of the new Domino and it has these little plastic flapper thingies instead of the registration pins. Man, am I glad I got the domino before they changed the design. I use the pins for running multiple domino joints all the time. e.g. My casing miters are reinforced with 2 dominoes. I hook the pin on the long point then  register the pin in the first mortise for the second mortise. Not possible with the new Domino. IMO this is a huge design fault. I would not have purchased the domino in the first place if the registration pins were not there.

With out the pins the Domino machine still cuts flawless mortises but looses an incredible amount of versatility.

Eiji

 

[Dan Clermont]

I've heard we can expect some really cool Domino accessories down the road but can't go into detail cause the specific person wouldn't cough it up.

I wonder if these accessories have something to do with the missing pins.

Then yet again, I have no idea where you saw a pic of the Domino without the registration pins

Dan Clermont

 

[dltflt]

I agree with Eiji, I would not have purchased the Domino either.  I've been using the pins to put multiple dominos across a desk top I'm building and if I were to measure each one I would have probably made a mistake because the were all mitered corners.

 

[robsw]

I've heard we can expect some really cool Domino accessories down the road but can't go into detail cause the specific person wouldn't cough it up.

I wonder if these accessories have something to do with the missing pins.

Then yet again, I have no idea where you saw a pic of the Domino without the registration pins

Dan Clermont

I think someone posted a pic of the Domino without the pins on Sawmill Creek. That's the only pic I've seen them without.

Rob

 

[Warrior]

the pics are on johne's threadhttp://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=3168.0

 

[Dan Clermont]

Thanks for the links and pics.

I like the old registration pins better then the new ones unless Festool can tell me why they changed to the new version

Dan Clermont

 

[Warrior]

They don't look as substantial as the old type  .
Without knowing why they have changed "upgraded", one could be assume they are cheaper to manufacture and install  :-\
They are replaceable, so that would mean they have a limited life.

Still, I don't see how you can run multiple mortises with the new unit with out having to mark the work. As a consumer hearing that the decision was based on economics at the expense of function makes me mad. Actually disrespected.

On another note... what is the deal with Festool wanting costumer feedback on tools going to be released in 60 days? Even if they would consider what we had to say they wouldnt have time to do anything about it anyway. Don't get me wrong I have the utmost respect for what Festool and their engineers bring us I just don't always feel there is any reciprocity.

Did anyone see a Forum post stating: Festool seeking customer feedback on new domino design...(the pins aren't doing it for us, anyone have any ideas?)

I would have been the first to shout out "KEEP The PINS!, make them work, change something, But just keep the pins. We need them for efficiency.....Hello?"

Eiji F

PS Festool, I still love you and can I have the MFK700 now?

 

[Markus K.]

I'm glad to own the old Model with the Pins. They are working very accurate and they are very useful for doing following mortises. This Plastic Things looks "cheap" to me! I wouldn't buy a new Model without testing, because I can't imagine they will work for following mortises like the Pins do.  ???

 

[Warrior]

This makes me want to go out and find and old model domino for sale so I can have a back up. To bad we are addicted and dont have any real leverage. Its not like I'm going to boycott. I'm just shaking my head and saying "Darn it"

 

[honeydoman]

those are very similiar to the registration flappers that the kreg foreman has. and they work great.  the pins as we know them today, sometimes stick in the hole, these new ones look better.

I measure off lines and line the dom... up to the line.  I used to use the attachment wings but they never worked right. went with lines and it is quicker and easier. 

just wait for this to come out.... you will all want to buy one!  because the new one will come with the cool new shades!!!!!!! 

 

[Brice Burrell]

They don't look as substantial as the old type  .
Without knowing why they have changed "upgraded", one could be assume they are cheaper to manufacture and install  :-\They are replaceable, so that would mean they have a limited life.

  This too came up in Henderson, Festool was/is being sued (I think it was Mafell??) and are changing to the new plastic flapper style for this reason.

 

[Warrior]

Brice,
Was the domino design too similar to the Dowel machine that Mafell makes? Too bad.

Eiji

 

[Brice Burrell]

Brice,
Was the domino design too similar to the Dowel machine that Mafell makes? Too bad.

Eiji

If I remember the story correctly, yes. Here's a link to the Mafell Duo-Dowel Jointer DD40 .

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Eiji,
I was concerned about this as well, and I asked about it in Henderson.  I got an answer from them, but I'm drawing a blank on what they said.  I remember the answer did make sense.

I could be wrong, but I seem to recall that it was not a legal issue.  Maybe two different people answered this question at two different times?  Can someone else who was in Henderson help me out here?

Matthew

 

[Forrest Anderson]

They don't look as substantial as the old type  .
Without knowing why they have changed "upgraded", one could be assume they are cheaper to manufacture and install  :-\They are replaceable, so that would mean they have a limited life.

  This too came up in Henderson, Festool was/is being sued (I think it was Mafell??) and are changing to the new plastic flapper style for this reason.

Well, that's a possibility that had never crossed my mind, and it sounds a rather compelling reason for Festool to change the design!

Like some other members, I'm very glad that I got my Domino with the old-model metal plunging pins.

Incidentally, there's a side-by-side review of the Domino and the Mafell DD40 Duo-Doweller in Good Woodworking for January 2008, and the pages relating to the Domino are athttp://www.festool.co.uk/images/download_press/domino_2008-01_gw_88-89.pdf  The review mentions how the Domino "like the Mafell, has a pair of sprung referencing pins, meaning that you can work from an edge, and make a joint without the need for setting out".

Thanks for the info!

Forrest

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

Does anybody know when these new units will be hitting stores and replacing old inventory? I need to know how much time I have!!  ???

 

[johne]

I have the domino with the plastic pins. So far i had no problems with them and if the need should arise to put two mortisses very close together i would mark their location on the wood. Because of their shape there's no way the pins will catch in a previously cut mortise. You can still cut the first mortise using the pins on the side of the workpiece of course.

I copied the quotes below from another post. Steve Jones mentions an example where the round pins could be a disadvantage

I had an order for a full kitchen with mitered flat panel doors a few months ago. I decided that  that was a job that the Domino was made for. We cut all the rails and stiles at 45 degrees, ran them over the tablesaw twice to cut the dado for the panel. and then clamped them to the MFT and simply used the built in stop on the domino against the outside (point) corner to locate the holes.

It mostly worked well, most of the corners came out perfect, and a few just would not come out level, despite being very carefull with the domino, several people tried and none of us could get a "perfect score" on those joints. Easy enough to fix, as said earlier, glue in a domino and cut it off to start again.

Finally found out that sometimes the locating pin on the inside of the corner was popping into the slot cut into the inside of the frame piece and holding the blade up enough to throw off the joint.

Next time I do doors like that I'll cut the slots after the domino holes.

Thanks for the warning and advice.

 

[Hetzenauer]

Hi all. This is my first post here. FOG is great! I have just finished a cabinet using the new Domino with the plastic pins. It worked perfectly, although there is some extra measurement involved when not cutting near the edge. However, its pretty obvious Festool did not intent this change in design to be an improvement. I was told by my official Festool dealer that Festool had to change the design to avoid patent violation. Some heads up by Festool regarding this matter would have been nice though. I guess lucky guys owning the old Domino with the metal registration pins will see the price on their machine increase quite a lot. Not that you intent on selling one of your Festools ever, but theoretically...

 

[dltflt]

Tom, I bought mine last month and it has the steel pins. I agree with underused get out and get one ASAP.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Does anybody know when these new units will be hitting stores and replacing old inventory? I need to know how much time I have!!  ???

You know, I thought it was going to be a little while before the new Domino makes its way to the US, but don't quote me on that. Maybe someone at Festool can give you the definitive answer.