New Festool Domino Deck Connector System

F

Forrest Anderson

Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2007
Messages
1,072
As I mentioned in my recent post about the publication of the Festool Facts newsletter here in the UK, Festool have released a new deck connector system!

(Click on image for larger version)

Details of it can be found at http://www.festool.co.uk/artikel/artikel_weiterleiten.cfm?id=1213 and http://www.festool.co.uk/artikel/artikel_weiterleiten.cfm?id=1214 and the order numbers are:

Clamping claw - EFK clamp DF 500/20 pieces,  496999
Double claw - DPK DF 500/50 pieces,  496998
Combination claw - KBK DF 500/20 pieces,  497000
Angle claw - WIK DF 500/20 pieces,  497001
 
Forrest

 
Forrest,

What materials are commonly used for decking in your area?  I ask because I didn't see what the brackets are made of.  They did mention stainless steel screws.  The cost of the system here would be a huge deterrent here I suspect.

Peter
 
peter halle said:
What materials are commonly used for decking in your area? 
Click to expand...

I don't have much experience of decking projects, so I'm not really a good person to ask.

The only answer I can give you is that decks are generally made of "wood"! The DIY superstore websites like B&Q at www.diy.com tend to just say "hardwood" or "softwood" and the only species I see mentioned is Douglas Fir. Even the Timber Decking Association doesn't seem to go in for naming suitable species, but it does state that "Over 90% of all decks are made from suitable pressure treated softwoods because of their availability, ease of working and cost effectiveness. Hardwoods come in a range of attractive colours. They tend to be more expensive and require more care to work with than softwoods".

Composite materials are also available from DIY stores in various colours.

I ask because I didn't see what the brackets are made of.  They did mention stainless steel screws.  The cost of the system here would be a huge deterrent here I suspect.
Click to expand...

In one place it says "Sophisticated hardware: The galvanized nails are black, protected against perforation and are also lightwave free" and in another it says "The matching stainless steel screws are included". I don't see where the nails fit in, so I wonder if the translation has gone askew and it is the four types of claw that are black galvanised?

Ah ha! I have some prices and better photos of the claws!

Go to http://www.festool.co.uk/artikel/artikel_weiterleiten.cfm?id=1214

Click on the order number for a claw, eg 497001

This takes you to a page with a large photo

If you click on the description, you get a price list of all four types of claw:

Double claw DPK DF 500 / 50 Order number: 496998 
for invisible connection of wooden deck boards 
qty. in pack  50 piece(s) 
incl. screws
Price exc. VAT 62,05 GBP 

Single claw EFK DF 500 / 20 Order number: 496999 
start or end claw for wooden deck boards 
qty. in pack  20 piece(s) 
incl. screws
Price exc. VAT 15,55 GBP 

Combination claw KBK DF 500 / 20 Order number: 497000 
special claw for longitudinal butt or cross bond of wooden deck boards 
qty. in pack  20 piece(s) 
incl. screws
Price exc. VAT 40,15 GBP 

Angle claw WIK DF 500 / 20 Order number: 497001 
end angled claw for forming end of decks or staircase construction 
qty. in pack  20 piece(s) 
incl. screws
Price exc. VAT 34,70 GBP 

Large photos are also available, eg this is the WIK DF500 Angle Claw:

zoom__fr_wikdf500_497001_z_01a.jpg


Forrest

 
Thanks, Forrest.  Any information regarding the number of "claws" needed per unit of decking area?  Is a "claw" needed at each joist on each side of each decking board?  If so, that would make for a very expensive deck at the stated prices. 

Dave R.
 
It usually averages out to about 1 fastener to about 1.5 sq/ft decking.

Their 50 count bag is close to what TC's cost.

I would have to think they are stainless, 95% of all hidden fasteners are.
 
That's cool and all but, that looks way slower than the Tiger Claw's, and the TC's are slow enough.  I am wanting to get TC's gun for shooting the clips.
 
I guess if you were to use a system like this for composite decking you would either have to do it when the deck boards are fully expanded (warmest part of the year) or make allowances for expansion.

Peter
 
I can't see using those on an average job. Too slow and probably far too expensive. Probably work on a high end job. Customers would likely be thrilled. I like the fact that the claws keep the boards elevated off of the joists slightly, very smart idea. When I've done repairs that's where the problems tend to start due to water retention. Mostly over winter though from snow/ice not so much from rain.
I don't know if they still do but Menard's used to sell 8' long galvanized angle bars with perforated holes along the entire length. Screw one side to the side of the joist, the other up into the decking. Worked really fast and easy. Haven't built a deck in a while thankfully. Built too many porches and decks, just don't care to anymore. The thrill is gone.
 
Like Holzhacker, I like the idea that the hardware keeps the boards slightly elevated.  But, I don't see how one can use the system and leave a gap between adjacent deck boards.  I always leave about a 4mm gap between boards.  Maybe I am missing something and there is a way to do this.  Can anyone either confirm or deny my suspicion? 

Like Holzhacker. I have built many decks but, unlike him, I still very much enjoy such projects.  If there is a way around the problem that I mentioned in the first paragraph, I would love to give this system a try.
 
These systems are set up to leave a 1/8 to 3/16 gap between the boards.

On the expansion part, the holes for the clips are bigger than the clips, that lest the board move.  Composite boards usually onlt move length wise.

On the high end thing, anyone that is spending the money for a composite deck/porch, expects it to look top dollar.  I dont even use face screws in the few pressure treated decks I do.

When someone is spending 10k for 250 sq/ft porch/deck, do you think the price of the fastener/hidden clip makes a whole bunch of difference.

 
Thanks for the information about the gap (1/8 to 3/16 does equate to about 4mm in a "real" measurement system  [tongue] ).  I'm glad that I was wrong.  In the video, I did not detect a gap but I checked the pictures with the hardware and see that there is one.

Now all I need to get to try this system out is:
(1) a suitable project,
(2) a bunch of hardware to be sent to me by a friend in the UK,
and (oh yes, I almost forget  [oops] ),  (3) a Domino. 
 
Teh decking material I am using requires a 3/16 inch gap between boards.  I found that speed squares are commonly that thickness.  Put the base on top of the board with the point down and it makes it easier.

Peter
 
WarnerConstCo. said:
That's cool and all but, that looks way slower than the Tiger Claw's, and the TC's are slow enough.  I am wanting to get TC's gun for shooting the clips.
Click to expand...

I agree tiger claws seem alot quicker and do the job for hiden fixing. With the gaps I have fitted one decking where I was asked for no gaps even though their should be gaps I was told no gaps. It was tanalaized wood and to my amazement all year round no gaps have appeared and no boards tryed to pop up.
 
I shoot for no exposed fasteners in decking, you will still have a few but, not many.

The Deck Master connectors (ones that go underneath) are rubbish.  I do not want to climb underneath a deck and fasten it down, it also requires someone standing on top to hold the boards in place.

Festool needs to try and gun down Tiger claw, if they want a share of that market.

The TC's give you the perfect gap as specified by all the composite decking manufacturer's.
 
I'm a deck builder. I build A LOT of decks.

While this tool fastening system may look good to cabinet makers, I can tell you, as a deck builder, that aside from a VERY FEW types of jobs, this tool has no practical value on a job site.

Number one, it's way too slow installation-wise. There are similar systems out there already that don't require a $700 tool be used on every joist connection, let alone the time it would take to actual do all the Domino-ing. The labor would be a killer.

Also, I have no idea what the cost of the fasteners actually is, but I am pretty positive it will be double the price of the next highest non-Festool offering. I also do not like any clip that fully supports the board. They generally squeak after a season or two.

In short, it's neat system for someone that is not in a production environment, but I can't see it really being a game changer. The fact that the Domino slot is so small leaves ZERO room for error when you are cutting it in. You would have to EXACTLY position the deck board (slow), mark it in place, move it to Domino it, put it back in the same place, insert clip, grab screw, grab drill. See where I'm going with this?

We can lay 100 SF per hour easily with TigerClaws.

Honestly, just watching the video was painful. Time lapse videography should not need to be used to demonstrate laying one deck board on two joists.  ::)
 
While I agree with Greg about the entire system issue. I will point out that you use the Domino on its widest setting when cutting the mortise. You do not need to be hyper accurate using this setting.
 
Chuck Kiser said:
I will point out that you use the Domino on its widest setting when cutting the mortise. You do not need to be hyper accurate using this setting.
Click to expand...

Are you sure on that? The holes I see in the video are very narrow.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

F
UK New Products Announcement, plus Latest Offers
Replies
4
Views
2K
EdL
E
F
  • Locked
Consolidated List of Festool Links (Reviews, Videos, Brochures, Manuals etc)
Replies
2
Views
189K
Forrest Anderson
F
Back
Top