New finishing equipment

[phmade]

I'm looking to purchase a more substantial finishing system.  I currently have a nice setup that I purchased from Homestead Finishing; it's a stainless LVLP gun with a gravity fed cup.  I'm pleased with the performance but my volume is increasing and finishing is the major bottleneck.  I feel like I can't lay enough finish down without major bounce-back and I'm tired of re-filling the cup so often.  The fatique of lifting the cup and gun is also an issue.  My arm gets tired after a few hours of finishing.  So now I'm trying to decide on a new setup...

I'm considering an AAA rig (maybe Graco Merkur) or maybe a Finish Pro package?  This will always be used in my shop so portability isn't an issue.  Does anyone have any suggestions?  I'll likely buy a new compressor too, but if the Finish Pro will work well then I could wait on the compressor.  Thanks!

 

[Oldwood]

Hi,

I use a Kremlin 10:14 pump and MVX gun & it has worked well for me. I use all solvent based materials and I have heard this pump can cause problems with water based finishes. Kremlin now has a new style of pump called EOS that is designed to use with water based products. I have heard good things about the CAT pumps and guns and they cost less new and for replacement parts. They have a system designed for water based materials and the way the finish systems are going I would go with that pump as it will work fine with solvent based also.

The AAA systems are the way to go if you spray any amount of product. They save time and material and are fast to clean. You will love it once you get on to it. I have heard good things about the Graco Merkur also. I think the most important thing is to get the pump and gun from someone who will come out and demonstrate the system and will be around to help you service it.

Gerry

 

[Scott B.]

I'm looking to purchase a more substantial finishing system.  I currently have a nice setup that I purchased from Homestead Finishing; it's a stainless LVLP gun with a gravity fed cup.  I'm pleased with the performance but my volume is increasing and finishing is the major bottleneck.  I feel like I can't lay enough finish down without major bounce-back and I'm tired of re-filling the cup so often.  The fatique of lifting the cup and gun is also an issue.  My arm gets tired after a few hours of finishing.  So now I'm trying to decide on a new setup...

I'm considering an AAA rig (maybe Graco Merkur) or maybe a Finish Pro package?  This will always be used in my shop so portability isn't an issue.  Does anyone have any suggestions?  I'll likely buy a new compressor too, but if the Finish Pro will work well then I could wait on the compressor.  Thanks!

I use both the Merkur and the Finish Pro (and the new II). Also have experience with the Kremlin 10.14 and EOS 15:1.

On the Gracos, the Merkur comes with a G15 and a aaf flat style tip configuration. It is only rated for up to 1500 psi (which can be limiting in waterbornes).

The Finish Pro and FPII come with G40 gun, and the II also comes with a flat tip conversion so you can run both reversible and aaf. All G40's are rated up to 4000 psi. Best of both worlds and plenty of head room for all types of products. The aaf configuration allows you to go very low for thin viscosities.

The Kremlins are great too. The Golden Gun is just buttery. If you get a Kremlin, get the EOS. Its badass.

 

[mastercabman]

If you are looking at AAA I have heard good things about the CAT
Also you could look into a pressure feed spray gun with a pressure pot.
I have use the CAT CPR and they give really nice finish.

 

[phmade]

Thanks for the responses.  I am spraying waterborne products 99% of the time.  I'll occasionally spray some tinted shellac.  Right now I'm leaning toward the Graco FP because I can get it easily and I wouldn't have to upgrade my compressor yet.  Is there a downside to the Finish Pro?  Which model should I be looking at?  Will the on-boad compressor run all the time?  Should I get a second gun- one for clear and one for color?

As far as price, what do you think is the best value?  I really haven't looked at prices but I figured I'm going to spend $2-4k to do it right. 

 

[Scott B.]

Thanks for the responses.  I am spraying waterborne products 99% of the time.  I'll occasionally spray some tinted shellac.  Right now I'm leaning toward the Graco FP because I can get it easily and I wouldn't have to upgrade my compressor yet.  Is there a downside to the Finish Pro?  Which model should I be looking at?  Will the on-boad compressor run all the time?  Should I get a second gun- one for clear and one for color?

As far as price, what do you think is the best value?  I really haven't looked at prices but I figured I'm going to spend $2-4k to do it right. 

The Finish Pro II is the new generation of the Finish Pro. New in 2014. It comes with reversible tip set up, but also a flat tip (aaf) conversion.

They also put a SmartComp system on it, so the onboard compressor is now trigger activated. When you are on the trigger, the compressor kicks on, when you let off, it shuts off. VERY handy feature, especially for people who work solo - less walking back and forth to the machine to shut it off. Also, much better for the compressor to not be sitting there running. Air stays cooler too, which is important in wb shooting.

Here is some info: http://topcoatreview.com/2014/02/graco-finish-pro-ii/

 

[John H]

Take a look at the CAT H2O gun with one of their pressure pots

H2O CPR (they also have Air Assist Airless unit)
http://www.spraycat.com/H20-CPR%20PS.pdf

2 quart Pressure Pot - Bandit
http://www.spraycat.com/51600cs.pdf

I have the H2O CPR gun with the Bandit and a 5' hose.  It takes less than 2 ounces to fill the hose and cleanup is very easy.  One thing nice about the Bandit is the 'wide mouth' so that you can use other containers inside the pot if your using smaller quantities (I have even used tupperware and pint jars) although they do sell actual liners for the pot

 

[tiralie]

I feel like I can't lay enough finish down without major bounce-back

Curious, what is your pressure set at and what coating are you spraying? Or are you saying if you increase pressure to increase volume you get a lot of bounce back?

and I'm tired of re-filling the cup so often.  The fatique of lifting the cup and gun is also an issue.  My arm gets tired after a few hours of finishing.  So now I'm trying to decide on a new setup...

I would see if Homestead has a pressure pot solution for the LVLP system.

I like new equipment too but with every purchase there is a cascade of challenges, problems and costs.
Tim

 

[phmade]

Thanks again for the replies.

Scott - the FinishPro II sounds really hard to beat.  It looks like they're around $2500..

John - I'll check out the units you suggested as well.  That's very attractive to not waste material filling a big hose.  The only problem with HVLP and pressure pot is that I'll have to get a new compressor right away.  My current compressor has to be on its last let; I've been using it for 13 years and its a Craftsman oil-less...

Tim- you are correct that when I increase volume (thus increasing pressure), I get a lot of bounce back.  I really like my LVLP gun but I think I just need a better solution for higher volume work.  If I spray something small then I'll still use my LVLP but lately I'm spraying batches of 25-50 cabinet doors.

Thanks again - I'll post back when I make a decision.  I think it'll be a couple of months before I'm ready to buy.

 

[Scott B.]

Thanks again for the replies.

Scott - the FinishPro II sounds really hard to beat.  It looks like they're around $2500..

It is.

We used the original Finish Pro for 3 years and thought they couldn't make it better.

There are many ways to arrive at the same goal in finishing. I need it to be the easiest, most foolproof way possible. From that standpoint, the FPII is amazing. Its very easy to use, and predictable. For me, that is key, to be able to produce the best results we can, as painless and simple as possible.

They packed a lot of additional features and value in at that price point.

 

[Schmidt And Co]

Hey Scott. Is there any of that paint buildup on the air cap that I've been experiencing?

 

[Scott B.]

Hey Scott. Is there any of that paint buildup on the air cap that I've been experiencing?

With the flat conversion, there is next to none. Crazy clean.

We still use the RAC a bunch though. Its not as clean as the flat, but its less prone to gunking out because the compressor stays cooler by not running constantly, so the air at the orifices is cooler.

 

[Schmidt And Co]

Cool. I've really got to get around to picking up the flat tip conversion for mine one of these days. As I've mentioned in the past, it's still workable, but annoying as heck. I did take a good look at the new unit at the PDCA trade show and was really impressed. Kinda wished I had held off a bit.  [sad]

 

[Scott B.]

Cool. I've really got to get around to picking up the flat tip conversion for mine one of these days. As I've mentioned in the past, it's still workable, but annoying as heck. I did take a good look at the new unit at the PDCA trade show and was really impressed. Kinda wished I had held off a bit.  [sad]

Craigslist it and upgrade.  [big grin]

 

[tjbnwi]

I'm currently using my Fugi with a 2.5 gallon pressure pot. I purchased the T-70 bottom feed gun to go with it.

Shooting Kem Aqua clear BRE sheen. I have the regulator set to 14-15 psi to deliver the fluid to the 1.8 mm air cap. Pressurizing the pot with a Rolair Jc-10. The key is to find the balance between enough delivery pressure and to much. Very little if any rebound or over spray.

Tom

 

[Paul G]

Cool. I've really got to get around to picking up the flat tip conversion for mine one of these days. As I've mentioned in the past, it's still workable, but annoying as heck. I did take a good look at the new unit at the PDCA trade show and was really impressed. Kinda wished I had held off a bit.  [sad]

Craigslist it and upgrade.  [big grin]

What do you think is a fair price for a slightly used and extremely clean FP395?

 

[phmade]

I'd say about $50.  Just make sure you call me.   

 

[Paul G]

I'd say about $50.  Just make sure you call me.   

I can't blame a guy for trying

 

[Scott B.]

Cool. I've really got to get around to picking up the flat tip conversion for mine one of these days. As I've mentioned in the past, it's still workable, but annoying as heck. I did take a good look at the new unit at the PDCA trade show and was really impressed. Kinda wished I had held off a bit.  [sad]

Craigslist it and upgrade.  [big grin]

What do you think is a fair price for a slightly used and extremely clean FP395?

Depends if you're buying or selling.  [big grin]

If I was selling, I want $2200. If I was buying, $1200.

If you look at used ones, make sure the gun is good. I have had several readers buy used ones only to find out that the guy was loaded up with dry lacquer. A new gun is $800, so it kind of blows the whole buy used deal.

 

[tiralie]

Tim- you are correct that when I increase volume (thus increasing pressure), I get a lot of bounce back.  I really like my LVLP gun but I think I just need a better solution for higher volume work.  If I spray something small then I'll still use my LVLP but lately I'm spraying batches of 25-50 cabinet doors.

BTW, did you ever find a source for your finishing needs or are you doing everything yourself?
Just curious, also do you set up a spray booth?
Tim