New Kapex 120 REB - hot gearbox, oil from vents, table not level and more...

[ahairoffsquare]

Well, an update:

The saw was returned to the place of purchase on 28 October, as previously detailed, where the staff logged a job on the spot.

I received an email on Wed (10 Nov) from Festool stating that the saw had been received. I called them today to confirm this was accurate, and they verified that indeed it was - it has taken nearly two weeks to simply get the saw to the service center.

Why is this a problem? The service center is 30 km - about a half hour drive - from the store I dropped it at.

I knew this at the time, but when I asked Festool then about a direct dropoff I was refused: "something something COVID something". I don't know any other brand that hasn't being accepting contact-free dropoffs/pickups, literally everywhere is doing and I've had no problems dropping other tools off anywhere. Even so, 2 weeks for a courier pickup one suburb over? The retail store itself claims they they had it sitting around waiting for over a week before the even  courier arrived.

Unacceptable.

I've emailed a formal complaint to Festool Australia and have since purchased another saw as I cannot afford to wait any longer. Meaning that my decision to choose Festool has now cost me more money, without even having their supposedly class-leaading saw in my shop.

So much for the 'Festool Experience'.

 

[Lincoln]

I feel your frustration, it's almost as bad in the city (Melbourne). Personally I don't think it's completely a Festool Aus problem, though Tooltechnics have had their issues over the years. I know it makes no difference to your issue, but just 10 mins ago I had a call from Festool Aus, to help me with claiming a redemption attached to a Rotex I bought this week. Was quickly, and politely, sorted. No fuss. Very happy.
Over the past month, I purchased a new planer(jointer), from a supplier 5 kilometres away. It was picked up by the courier, then spent the next week doing a tour of Victoria. It was finally delivered, in three separate deliveries, over three days.
I'm waiting on $500 worth of abrasives, from Sydney. Paid for Express shipping, should have been here over a week ago. Still waiting, no one can actually tell me where the package is.
Honestly, I think it's an Australian thing. Our 'service' is lacking, in a lot of areas. We went on a family holiday to NYC and LA, and we were BLOWN AWAY by the service we received, everywhere we went.

 

[ahairoffsquare]

I feel your frustration, it's almost as bad in the city (Melbourne). Personally I don't think it's completely a Festool Aus problem, though Tooltechnics have had their issues over the years. I

Yeah I'm dealing with the Melbourne service center myself.

I agree there are wider, more ingrained issues with business/customer culture in Australia and have made the same observations myself when I lived abroad. But it's another discussion perhaps. At least we have strong consumer rights laws. Hopefully it wont get that far though.

 

[Lincoln]

What did you get as a temporary saw?
I'm a very satisfied Kapex owner, though I am bemused at the 'superb dust collection' claim. It's ok, nothing special. Nature of the tool, never going to be great.

 

[ahairoffsquare]

Hitachi C10. Only other rear option with an inline handle. Was my original choice but after using a bosch glidearm on a job with a mate i convinced myself I wanted forward-projection arms and front facing controls.

Now I have it in the shop on a mobile trolly, the rear projection of the slide arm isnt that big a deal after all and the rear locking knob for bevel adjustment is only slightly more awkward. On the plus side, it's got a flat deck, it's not making a mess all over the job and is actually here, and working.

I'm regretting bothering with the kapex at all frankly.

 

[mino]

...
To clarify, I'm in Australia - one of the more rural bits. So a return was always going to be a pain. One of my ...dissatisfactions in this has been that despite initially trying to contact Festool service Australia to articulate all of these issues clearly and directly and avoid unnecessary work for all involved, I was rather curtly told over then phone to just  'take it back to the shop for inspection'. Initially, all I wanted was clarification on whether the heat and oil was normal, and the best I could get was a noncommittal 'maybe, maybe not, wouldn't think so....probably'. I tried asking about the laser and the guards sticking, and before I was even done it was the same response - 'just take it back mate'. Travel times didn't seem to be something they considered - after all, it's not them making the trip I guess.

So with no further guidance forthcoming, I had no choice but to make that 3 hour drive. Unsurprisingly, the shop staff themselves were far less communicative than when they'd been trying to sell me the saw, and had zero interest in even looking at any of the issues at all. "No, we don't service or inspect any Festool - we send all of it away'. So they shortened everything down into a two-sentence summary on the 'returns' form (no photos, video, measurements - nothing), took the saw, and told me it'd be be up to a week before they even ship it to the service center in city, and 3-4 before I'd hear back from them.  I called Festool again and asked if I could speed this up by delivering it myself, and was told flatly no.

Forgive me if that sounds like a whinge, or a whine, but this all translates to downtime and further cost to me, and it's not what I'd describe as an efficient or professional system, to say the least.

1) DO NOT ALLOW your seller to PREVENT your issues being resolved by Festool by NOT informing Festool service about the issues you dully reported.

What to do:
Take the receipt from the shop with all details you have and contact Festool AUS DIRECTLY VIA EMAIL where you can attach all the information - like you did here. Make sure to include the serial number of the machine in the email as a reference.

A written communication has a legal weight so they will _have to_ attend the issue and it cannot happen that a call center idiot will simply misunderstand the problem and not report it.

Lastly, make sure to REGISTER your device on Festool.com.au:https://www.festool.com.au/warranty

Also make sure to do this ASAP - if your dealer did not inform you, you will get FULL 3 Years ONLY if you register in time on the site.

2) As far as possible, I would never ever purchase anything, even a screw from a shop with the behavior you describe and would make darn sure I would let every one in my circle aware why.

2b) If you have no shop close-by, at least for the bigger (and potentially fragile) items, buy from an online seller and have it delivered directly to you. These days you do not (have to) depend on the local guys who feel like having a monopoly.

P.S.:
I would not be surprised if Festool forbid these guys to touch any returned tools - that is normal for warranty fixes as the vendor does not want amateurs at the shop making things worse for the customer.

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.
2) As far as possible, I would never ever purchase anything, even a screw from a shop with the behavior you describe and would make darn sure I would let every one in my circle aware why.
Snip.

When a merchant makes a honest mistake, or seeks to correct it to my satisfaction, I'll give the business another chance. Otherwise, yes, I'll stop buying from that merchant, and let my friends know, too. The opposite is also true When I come across a vendor (car dealership. plumbing, dental, etc.) which offers outstanding service, I try to alert anyone who may one day need such assistance.

 

[ahairoffsquare]

So - an update and a conclusion to this little story.

Festool responded to my complaint, claiming the original delay was because the retail store didn't have it ready for pickup in time. Said store instead said that Festool didn't give them the consignment info. Neither side took any responsibility, but the saw was now with a technician, so I let it slide.

The technician emailed that evening, which was nice, but said that either the problems weren't actually problems ('they all get that hot, they all blow oil') or intimated that I had damaged the saw myself, such as by 'crashing' the saw head into the 0 stop.

I sent several more clarifying emails/videos, disputing this assessment, and it was agreed that the saw would be looked at ASAP. It still took a week for it to be ready for collection (with instructions from Festool to be 'more gentle with the 0-stop'...), where I took it home and shelved it, as I was mid Xmas rush, already had the replacement C10FSB working in its stead, and didn't want to put the Kapex back in service without inspection first.

Just as well - when I did have a chance to go over it , I found what while the laser was aligned and the deck (mostly....) flat, the 0 stop was as bad as ever, even with the most gentle operation of the adjustment knob. Additionally, the bevel now jammed at 42 degrees when on the "0-45" setting.
https://vimeo.com/660312317

I emailed the the technician with video, and received a condescending reply essentially insisting that 'my saw is working normally', and that i should simply force through the resistance to 45deg - completely contradicting not only the very video I'd sent, but also his own previous advice about being gentle with the bevel stops.

A few more emails were exchanged with token suggestions about greasing the slides (which made the 0-stop problem worse), so I suggested I dismantle and attempt to fix it myself. This was met with a rather transparent statement that 'while dismantling will not void my warranty, any damage during this process will not be covered'.

Considering 'damage' was clearly already the present state, I elected to not risk it and ask for a refund. While this was notionally granted the next day, apparently it had to be done through the store of purchase. Their post-sales rep assured me the store credit would be approved immediately upon return of the saw,  and cleared me to deliver it directly to the factory (something I was told I couldn't do originally!), to save a repeat of the previous courier drama .

Despite making that 2 hour drive  (the 4th time...) to do their delivery for them that same afternoon, a week then passed with no further communication, to me or the retail store. After a number of unreturned calls and emails, I was informed that the refund approval had been 'stuck internally as they don't normally allow refunds' (?!?!), and would now be actioned that da...which actually ended up being the next day.

I have the money back now, but considering the work hours lost and k's driven (over 1000km in total), I've easily still come out of this worse off. I'm still not sure what's been more of a disappointment - the tool or the company, but I'm understanding why my local repair store (an independent who's been operating for some 30-odd years) has the strong opinions he does about this brand...

Anyway, thanks all for listening and contributing. Unsure if this is my last post on the forum, but appreciate having a place to document and share this experience.

 

[ultane]

WoW!!! That’s very disappointing! I guess that Festool thinks that they are the only company that makes products for the consumer to chose from..

 

[ChuckM]

  [scared] [eek] [scared]

My Amazon's purchase AND return experiences have been 1,000 x better than yours.

 

[Birdhunter]

I’ve had none of these issues on my older Kapex. Even so, I wish Festool would sell a machine tool level Kapex. I’m sure the cost would be quite high, but there has to be a market for a Kapex at least as good as the big SawStop. Such a tool would have a decent motor, flat machined bed, and highly sturdy and accurate settings. Ie a machine tool

 

[ahairoffsquare]

I’ve had none of these issues on my older Kapex. Even so, I wish Festool would sell a machine tool level Kapex. I’m sure the cost would be quite high, but there has to be a market for a Kapex at least as good as the big SawStop. Such a tool would have a decent motor, flat machined bed, and highly sturdy and accurate settings. Ie a machine tool

This is what I was led to think I was getting (a machine grade tool), based on the salesman's hype when I first bought it. For the price (over 2x the saw I replaced it with), it's certainly what I'd expect.

But honestly, I'd expect even a decent consumer grade saw to have a 'decent motor, flat machined bed, and highly sturdy and accurate settings'. Whats the point of a miter saw without these things?

 

[Cheese]

But honestly, I'd expect even a decent consumer grade saw to have a 'decent motor, flat machined bed, and highly sturdy and accurate settings'. Whats the point of a miter saw without these things?

Over the years, I've owned 3 different Milwaukee saws that possessed all of those features, the only problem was that after some minimal use the settings were always off a hair and I was constantly tweaking the things to get 90º miters.

I purchased my Kapex 6 years ago, set up the saw when I first got it and I've never had to tweak it since.

It's unfortunate that you had the issues that you did because the Kapex does work well.

 

[squall_line]

This was all a very unfortunate update to read.

Between the prices and the service level, I feel really bad for our Festool-wanting brothers and sisters in Australia.

 

[ahairoffsquare]

Well, a bit of side note/update  - on Sunday, my neighbor came home with his own shiny new Kapex. Had a bit of chat over the fence as he unloaded it, he knows I'm in the business and we often talk/borrow tools. Mentioned I'd had one previously but said nothing more. Said I was happy  to give him a hand squaring it up, if needed.

A few hours later, I got a knock on my door - "So uhhh, how much oil is normal for these to leak?"

[unsure]

 

[woodbutcherbower]

My sympathy at this horror story. Many guys on here (myself included) have Festool gear which gets professionally tortured, but still never misses a beat and is exactly what a premium tool’s supposed to be - dead accurate and dead reliable. UK customers also get good service - not as good as Hilti’s - but that company really is in a league all of its own. I hope you get fixed up with something which does what you need it to.

Best wishes from a non-whingeing Pom.