New membership numbers on the FOG

[ear3]

I was looking at the forum stats the other day, and saw that there has been a precipitous decline in new members joining the FOG, from 16,000+ last year to around 4000 -- a number that hasn't been that low since 2012.  Number of new topics and posts are also down (though not proportional to the membership rolls) about 30% from the past two years, though the total page views is up, as they have been every year since the FOG's inception.

Now obviously in a forum like this it should be quality rather than quantity, and for every 50 people that sign up there's maybe 1 who actually starts contributing regularly (just guestimated that number btw).  But I was still surprised to see those numbers. 

 

[bobfog]

My guess would be that the level of innovation from Festool is declining, the year on year prices are increasing, and all against a backdrop of other manufacturers closing the quality gap.

In short, maybe Festool isn't on the same pedestal it once was.

I'd also speculate that issues with the Carvex blade guide and Kapex motor issues largely going unresponded to has reduced advocacy and had a knock on effect. On a similar note, the refusal to expand their 10.8v range and to make a decent 18v impact as well as recip saw may also be forcing people to other brands.

 

[peter halle]

Let's get the elephant out of the cage.  Running a forum dedicated to a manufacturer's products requires participation and nurturing and that participation level is not what it once was. 

 

[TylerC]

Although I don't have the numbers in front of me now -- I'm doing Christmas with my family today -- most metrics around the FOG ebb and flow seasonally, but they're still inclining. There are a number of possible reasons, but I think that part of it is that -- let's be honest -- this kind of web forum is past its peak in popularity. It shouldn't be that surprising that the growth of a traditional web forum has slowed while Festool's social media following/engagement is  growing in huge numbers.

There are certainly other legit arguments to be made, and I highly doubt that there's any one simple explanation.

In 2017 we're  planning to update the FOG to a new platform that should be more modern and mobile/tablet-friendly, which will hopefully will attract more people.

 

[Stephen B]

I believe that all three of the first respondents so far have presented valid reasons; with Peter presenting the most telling.

Sure there is the promise of a FOG software upgrade, but it is the lack any significant participation by Festool employees, particularly when issues arise that needs to change. It is always better to be proactive rather than intermitatly reactive.

Tyler discusses the rise of social media. Fair comment, untill you look at some of the Festool Facebook Pages. The Australian FB page is pathetic. No real information, just pretty pictures inviting 'likes' from the 'fan boys'.  [eek]

 

[TylerC]

... the lack any significant participation by Festool employees, particularly when issues arise that needs to change.

I'm curious how much you're considering the Kapex in this?

 

[TylerC]

Tyler discusses the rise of social media. Fair comment, untill you look at some of the Festool Facebook Pages. The Australian FB page is pathetic. No real information, just pretty pictures inviting 'likes' from the 'fan boys'.  [eek]

Festool doesn't have the same official presence in Australia as in other countries, so their Facebook page does get the same love.

 

[Stephen B]

[size=13pt]Sure Tyler the Kapex was in my mind when I wrote that sentence, but so were the times in other topics and threads when members, including myself have been attempting to provide advice to others, or have asked our own questions, and have tagged a Festool employee and received no response.

This is not a direct criticism of you or Phil. It is obvious that Festool management has not provided appropriate significance or time for FOG monitoring within the job descriptions of two valued employees. It almost feels at times like you and Phil are responding to the FOG voluntarily. Certainly Tyler, you are today.

 

[Stephen B]

[size=8pt]

Tyler discusses . .

[size=12pt]
Festool doesn't have the same official presence in Australia as in other countries . .

[size=13pt]Ain't that the truth!  [smile]

 

[TylerC]

I'm not surprised that "involvement from Festool" is a recurring theme in this. A lot of this is fair, and I have some thoughts on this and would like more feedback from you all on this. However, my family is getting mad at me for my continued interruptions to the game of Scattegories that we have going. I'll give a more thoughtful response tomorrow morning.

 

[Phil Beckley]

[size=8pt]

Tyler discusses . .

[size=12pt]
Festool doesn't have the same official presence in Australia as in other countries . .

[size=13pt]Ain't that the truth!  [smile]

...Festool in Australia is via an import partner and has possibly a different approach to social media. Social media also varies country to country and may not be the best use of resources.
rg
Phil

 

[Phil Beckley]

My guess would be that the level of innovation from Festool is declining, the year on year prices are increasing, and all against a backdrop of other manufacturers closing the quality gap.

In short, maybe Festool isn't on the same pedestal it once was.

I'd also speculate that issues with the Carvex blade guide and Kapex motor issues largely going unresponded to has reduced advocacy and had a knock on effect. On a similar note, the refusal to expand their 10.8v range and to make a decent 18v impact as well as recip saw may also be forcing people to other brands.

....innovation is constant in Festool - watch this space
rg
Phil

 

[bobfog]

I'm not surprised that "involvement from Festool" is a recurring theme in this. A lot of this is fair, and I have some thoughts on this and would like more feedback from you all on this. However, my family is getting mad at me for my continued interruptions to the game of Scattegories that we have going. I'll give a more thoughtful response tomorrow morning.

My meandering thoughts:

1) We need more interaction and content from Festool employees, globally. More showcases of work from different jurisdictions.

2) We need more "sneak previews" of new tools and other products. Nothing so far in advance that it will jeopardise the commercial requirements, but something a few days before public release, give us something to make us feel that as forum members we've got a little more insider info than people who don't participate on the forum. 

3) Be more receptive to criticism and complaints - I guess this would be as a whole for the brand not just the forum, at the risk of flogging a dead horse the Kapex complaints should have been responded to and a new improved motor design implemented and remedial upgrades to older versions carried out before insulting us by offering a new Kapex 60. Yes this would have cost Festool millions of dollars, pounds, euros, etc. But that's the rod they've made for their own back by marketing themselves as the gold standard of tools and charging accordingly for their products.

4) Let us talk about politics, guns, religion, etc. Sure this would increase the burden on moderators/staff but it's what creates a forum atmosphere, and again this increased workload would be part of the investment into the forum. Would you go to your friends' shop/garage and not talk about pressing current affairs whilst also talking tools or having a cold one? A successful forum needs to be a community with free speech, not just seen as a place for the technical discussion of whatever brand/industry the forum name might represent.

 

[Phil Beckley]

[size=13pt]Sure Tyler the Kapex was in my mind when I wrote that sentence, but so were the times in other topics and threads when members, including myself have been attempting to provide advice to others, or have asked our own questions, and have tagged a Festool employee and received no response.

This is not a direct criticism of you or Phil. It is obvious that Festool management has not provided appropriate significance or time for FOG monitoring within the job descriptions of two valued employees. It almost feels at times like you and Phil are responding to the FOG voluntarily. Certainly Tyler, you are today.

Hi
Most of my posts are out of hours and it is not directly in my job description. However, as an employee of Festool and also trade I enjoy the forum as if some help can be offered on a product then the main purpose of the forum is maintained - exchange of information to help others. Part of the brand is to aid the best use of the products by an end user
rg
Phil

 

[Phil Beckley]

I'm not surprised that "involvement from Festool" is a recurring theme in this. A lot of this is fair, and I have some thoughts on this and would like more feedback from you all on this. However, my family is getting mad at me for my continued interruptions to the game of Scattegories that we have going. I'll give a more thoughtful response tomorrow morning.

...and I am going back to a classic film - The National Lampoons Christmas Vacation..... [wink] and a beer, have a good one all  [wink]
rg
Phil

 

[justaguy]

IMHO #4 is the last thing that we need ...

[/quote]

4) Let us talk about politics, guns, religion, etc. Sure this would increase the burden on moderators/staff but it's what creates a forum atmosphere, and again this increased workload would be part of the investment into the forum. Would you go to your friends' shop/garage and not talk about pressing current affairs whilst also talking tools or having a cold one? A successful forum needs to be a community with free speech, not just seen as a place for the technical discussion of whatever brand/industry the forum name might represent.
[/quote]

 

[tony_sheehan]

"4) Let us talk about politics, guns, religion, etc."

Then it'll be bye bye from me (not that it'll be a great loss to the FOG as I'm not a great contributor )

 

[bobfog]

author=justaguy link=topic=49637.msg489966#msg489966 date=1482797514]
IMHO #4 is the last thing that we need ...

4) Let us talk about politics, guns, religion, etc. Sure this would increase the burden on moderators/staff but it's what creates a forum atmosphere, and again this increased workload would be part of the investment into the forum. Would you go to your friends' shop/garage and not talk about pressing current affairs whilst also talking tools or having a cold one? A successful forum needs to be a community with free speech, not just seen as a place for the technical discussion of whatever brand/industry the forum name might represent.

But why so?

Is this not a meeting place for adults? Would you not talk about such current affairs if you were with other like-minded people, face-to-face?

It seems to me that there is a disconnect between real life and this forum. Sure I like talking tools as much as the next guy, but if my friends did nothing but talk about tools and completely avoided contentious topics like it was Sunday morning in church, I'd tire of them very quickly.

Provided it's kept broadly civil, wouldn't having the ability to discuss all manner of "off topic" subject matter contribute to the overall participation of the forum, and in turn have a knock-on effect with overall contribution with greater numbers?

Some of the other forums I frequent have this balance right and they flourish, the ones that are too focussed on tech talk are the ones that die.

 

[rmwarren]

author=justaguy link=topic=49637.msg489966#msg489966 date=1482797514]
IMHO #4 is the last thing that we need ...

4) Let us talk about politics, guns, religion, etc. Sure this would increase the burden on moderators/staff but it's what creates a forum atmosphere, and again this increased workload would be part of the investment into the forum. Would you go to your friends' shop/garage and not talk about pressing current affairs whilst also talking tools or having a cold one? A successful forum needs to be a community with free speech, not just seen as a place for the technical discussion of whatever brand/industry the forum name might represent.

But why so?

Is this not a meeting place for adults? Would you not talk about such current affairs if you were with other like-minded people, face-to-face?

It seems to me that there is a disconnect between real life and this forum. Sure I like talking tools as much as the next guy, but if my friends did nothing but talk about tools and completely avoided contentious topics like it was Sunday morning in church, I'd tire of them very quickly.

Provided it's kept broadly civil, wouldn't having the ability to discuss all manner of "off topic" subject matter contribute to the overall participation of the forum, and in turn have a knock-on effect with overall contribution with greater numbers?

Some of the other forums I frequent have this balance right and they flourish, the ones that are too focussed on tech talk are the ones that die.

From my perspective there are times when I just want to avoid discussing social issues and enjoy being in an atmosphere where it does not come up. Not that I don't have strong opinions and convictions, I just don't want to express them here nor have others expressing at me. The slope can be too slippery.

Perhaps it's my safe place...  [2cents]

RMW

 

[amt]

Do #4 and expect your membership to be stuck at 1/2 what it should be.  #4 is probably the worst thing you could do for an online forum like this.