New Senco Cordless Nailers - No more compressors or fuel cells

Sorry guys, after the luck I've had with Senco battery nail guns, I'm going to let you guys be the guinea pigs.  Lets pick up this topic 1 year from today and see if all these new purchasers are as excited about this new tool then.  I have had to replace the electronic chips more than once and the operation of both of my current Senco tools (15 and 18 gauge) has caused me to revert back to air operated nailers with CO2 canisters.
:(
 
Jonhilgen said:
I will buy one.  I was thinking of converting a Sys 5 to hold my smallsenco compressor and nail guns, but this would really negate my desire to do it.

Question:  Are they developing a 23 gauge gun in this version?  That would be a slam dunk for me too.

What did you have in mind in regards to the conversion?  Check out systainerworld.com and then pics and videos in the top right.  There is a video with a PC1010 Senco in a systainer along with another guns attached in a systainer tower.  Was this your idea?  I believe the owner of the video chopped his handle off the compressor to make'er fit in the systainer.  Was wondering what you had in mind, as you said you were going to modify the systainer, not compressor.
 
jmbfestool said:
My main issue with me which no one seems to mention is that you can never turn the nail gun off because how it works.   So if a nail jams up ill be scared to remove it in case if fires.  Unlike paslode removing battery or gas or both the gun will never work and the Dewalt you remove the battery and it will never work.  This gun doesn't need the battery to fire it uses the battery to return the piston.

So in theory the only way to make sure it is safe is to remove the battery fire the gun and the motor wont return the piston back up.

Edited:

BUT  if its jammed and the pistion isnt fully out  will it carry on at high force once I have removed the nail to release it??? thats the question! How do you make is safe?  or are they going to claim it will never ever jam?!?!?!?

Wow, phenomenal point.  I'll bring it up next Friday at our demo and will let you know my findings.  There MUST be a failsafe, somewhere somehow.
 
Pinner shouldn't be too difficult.  I think the 18 volt battery hanging off the back is an invalid argument.  Senco can easily use a smaller voltage batter to return a piston on a pinner, an 18 volt shouldn't be required.  In addition, and along the same line of thinking, a smaller nitrogen chamber should also suffice.  Let's see what happens.

At the end of the day I think it's a crapshoot.  If it does came out (a pinner) I still think a pneumatic Grex or Fasco, etc would be a tad bit smaller.  But no hose, no compressor, everything all in one, still takes the cake if you ask me.  Even if it's a hair larger.
 
RonWen said:
That appears to be a quantum leap forward in technology -- makes you kind of wonder if the tools 100 years from now will have people looking back at our time period tools the same way we look back 100 years in the past??? Although, thinking about it most of today's tools won't be around in 100 years the way 100 year old tools are today... [unsure]

[eek] ??? [eek] :o  Makes you think, right?  Something that always fascinates me and is a source of much intrigue.  Where the heck will we be in 5 years, forget 100.  Technology is moving forward at an exponential pace.  To forecast where we'll be in 5 years by gauging our developments in the previous 5 years to today is not even a valid sampling.  THAT is what is so cool to me....
 
Sean Ackerman said:
jmbfestool said:
My main issue with me which no one seems to mention is that you can never turn the nail gun off because how it works.   So if a nail jams up ill be scared to remove it in case if fires.  Unlike paslode removing battery or gas or both the gun will never work and the Dewalt you remove the battery and it will never work.  This gun doesn't need the battery to fire it uses the battery to return the piston.

So in theory the only way to make sure it is safe is to remove the battery fire the gun and the motor wont return the piston back up.

Edited:

BUT  if its jammed and the pistion isnt fully out  will it carry on at high force once I have removed the nail to release it??? thats the question! How do you make is safe?  or are they going to claim it will never ever jam?!?!?!?

Wow, phenomenal point.  I'll bring it up next Friday at our demo and will let you know my findings.  There MUST be a failsafe, somewhere somehow.

If you look closely at the animated video you'll see a safety detent catches all along the shaft of piston and a lockout safety on the trigger. I imagine these should prevent the nailer/piston from firing when clearing a jam.   
 
Brice Burrell said:
Sean Ackerman said:
jmbfestool said:
My main issue with me which no one seems to mention is that you can never turn the nail gun off because how it works.   So if a nail jams up ill be scared to remove it in case if fires.  Unlike paslode removing battery or gas or both the gun will never work and the Dewalt you remove the battery and it will never work.  This gun doesn't need the battery to fire it uses the battery to return the piston.

So in theory the only way to make sure it is safe is to remove the battery fire the gun and the motor wont return the piston back up.

Edited:

BUT  if its jammed and the pistion isnt fully out  will it carry on at high force once I have removed the nail to release it??? thats the question! How do you make is safe?  or are they going to claim it will never ever jam?!?!?!?

Wow, phenomenal point.  I'll bring it up next Friday at our demo and will let you know my findings.  There MUST be a failsafe, somewhere somehow.

If you look closely at the animated video you'll see a safety detent catches all along the shaft of piston and a lockout safety on the trigger. I imagine these should prevent the nailer/piston from firing when clearing a jam.   
Ahhhh, see'em now.
 
I DID look closely and I DID see the safety catch first time watching the video  but would you trust it???  You been using it a lot and something has worn out or its got dirt in so not working properly and  you think oh its okay but the catch hasn't engaged properly how do you know??  I would always be think this piston is under alot of pressure and the only thing stopping it is the catch.  

If you look closely you can see the safety catch hits to piston rod  before it engages in the hole so to me that will cause wear on the end of the tip.

Also what stops you accidentally pulling the trigger even though the catch is on pulling the trigger will that release the catch even with no battery? I dont know

Well you can say the same about paslode and Dewalt both wont fire untill you push the end tip in and then you pull the trigger  but do you still leave the battery or gas or both in?? NO.    So why would this be different with this gun?
 
fortrout said:
Sorry guys, after the luck I've had with Senco battery nail guns, I'm going to let you guys be the guinea pigs.  Lets pick up this topic 1 year from today and see if all these new purchasers are as excited about this new tool then.  I have had to replace the electronic chips more than once and the operation of both of my current Senco tools (15 and 18 gauge) has caused me to revert back to air operated nailers with CO2 canisters.
:(

Bit like the paslode i had that constantly misfired till they figured the gas has a life. And the dewlt that has been repaired a number of times. No nailer is perfect, the air nailers have te least roblems but you have a lead to it
 
Chris Rosenberger said:
Deansocial said:
fortrout said:
Sorry guys, after the luck I've had with Senco battery nail guns, I'm going to let you guys be the guinea pigs.  Lets pick up this topic 1 year from today and see if all these new purchasers are as excited about this new tool then.  I have had to replace the electronic chips more than once and the operation of both of my current Senco tools (15 and 18 gauge) has caused me to revert back to air operated nailers with CO2 canisters.
:(

Bit like the paslode i had that constantly misfired till they figured the gas has a life. And the dewlt that has been repaired a number of times. No nailer is perfect, the air nailers have te least roblems but you have a lead to it

Well I guess we must be wrong about the junk Senco battery guns we own & you know all about them because you never owned them.  [eek] 
I am aware that nail guns fail, but the user should be able to drive a complete box of nails without having to have the gun repaired.
I am sure glade Festool does not take this attitude towards quality.

well then, whats with the attitude? huh??  I was just stating that all the gun i have owned have had problems aswell. my paslode constantly misfires. I never even passed judgment on the senco as i have never had 1!!!! Maybe these will be much bette maybe not
 
I will love to see how the Senco works out.  It really seems like a neat tool, but I won't be on the front lines to get one.  I have a Paslode, I dropped and damaged it.  I bought the DeWalt.  I fortunately have had great luck with mine - 4 plus years with no problems.  It is heavy and I admit that I don't use it everyday or in a heavy production mode.  I always carry an 18 gauge pneumatic and my Grex pinner because I have the room to do so.

Peter
 
I wonder what the pressure is of the gas in both charged (ready to fire)and discharged state I would think you would want to store the tool in the discharged state between uses to minimise pressure on seals and springs ect (if it has any springs) also if the tool was to lay in direct sunshine for some time????
 
Good point.  mite be become a super gun with the sun increasing the pressure due to heat  you nails go straight through the wood lol  Wonder what would happen if it was to drop from a tall scaffold if it would just blow.
 
The new Senco nailers look very neat, but I am not sure they are for me.  In my amateur shop, I might not use a nailer for a year or two.  Then I'll get out my pneumatic nailer(s) and fire away.  The pneumatics just work.  They can sit idle on the shelf without needing a battery charge, canister change, etc.  I'll keep my old fashioned pneumatics for now.
 
Can someone say, Bammer? [big grin]

I have had 0 issues with all three of my paslode cordless guns.  I have not cleaned or lubed one since I bought them about 3 years ago.

Most problems rise from using expired gas.
 
WarnerConstCo. said:
Can someone say, Bammer? [big grin]

I have had 0 issues with all three of my paslode cordless guns.  I have not cleaned or lubed one since I bought them about 3 years ago.

Most problems rise from using expired gas.

Yeah, I have one of those.  Worked great when I lived in NJ.  A mile high, not so much. No assistance from P-C of any kind.

Neill
 
WarnerConstCo. said:
Can someone say, Bammer? [big grin]

I have had 0 issues with all three of my paslode cordless guns.  I have not cleaned or lubed one since I bought them about 3 years ago.

Most problems rise from using expired gas.
Isn't Bammer by Porter-cable?
I used to have a paslode trim gun.Paid $600.00 for it.I had problem with the charger.Battery would never get charged fully.
Then it started to put big dents over the nail/miss fire/not setting the nail.I cleaned it,worked fine for a little and started to act weird again.
Gave up on it and got compressor/pneumatic nailers.
 
My experience with the Paslode guns has been that they did not like the cold.  In the winter it seemed like we spent more time fiddling with them than we did nailing with them.

In the summer it seems like they rarely if ever misfired.

[2cents]
 
The first fix Paslode I never have problems with in cold a little but soon get going.  but the Seconds fix Paslode JEZUS don't they miss fire alot  you soon run out of gas before you used all the nails because your pressing the gun in like 10 times before it shoots one nail. You can have a good run for few days but then you can end up with miss fires all the time and I service both first fix and second after 2 gas loads.  The company I work for own 7 second fix guns and they all do the same and my mate just bought a second fix and it does the same thing he was bit upset bout it he said he wish he got same as me the Dewalt second fix which I think its good but isnt with out its problems either.

So no one tell me they dont miss fire because they are talking rubbish.
 
I showed everyone pictures the other day of the Senco Fusion nailers at the A.W. Meyer Octoolberfest show.  Well, the 15 gauge angled finish nailer FN65DA followed me home.  [wink]

I liked the 15 gauge demoing it at the show.  The 16 gauge straight finish nailer isn't my thing.  I don't like straight finish nailers (insert joke here) and 16 gauge was originally developed for MDF trim to prevent blowouts and fuzz from the larger 15 gauge nails.  I don't use MDF trim.

The 18 gauge brad nailer was just ridiculously huge and heavy compared to an air powered brad nailer like Senco's own FinishPro25XP.  I have an SLP20 that's even smaller and lighter.  The 18 gauge Fusion gun is 3 inches taller and 3.3 pounds heavier at 6 pounds compared to the FinishPro25XP.  It's a behemoth for a brad gun, so I definitely wasn't interested.

The 15 gauge Fusion has loads of power, is only a little bit taller and 1 1/2 pounds heavier at 6.2 pounds compared to my FinishPro42XP, which is still Senco's current top finish gun in the air powered line.  The Fusion looks a little awkward with the nail magazine out at an angle to the gun body and I'm not sure if that might become an issue during use.  The battery sticks up a little too much for comfort where your arm is positioned during use.  That creates an odd bend in the wrist that can be a problem depending on how the user is holding the gun -- angle, height, etc.

The nail gun only comes with one 18 volt (really 19.2 volt) battery (there used to be a special mail-in for a second battery), but Senco claims it isn't necessary due to the fact that it's an advanced new type of Lithium Phosphate technology that recharges to 80% in as little as 15 minutes and 100% in 45 minutes to an hour.  I feel it should come with two batteries, because you don't know the timing of when the battery may give out.  It doesn't always nicely coincide with your breaks, so that would be a waste of 15 minutes that you could be nailing.  The battery has a push button charge gauge so you know how much is remaining.  The battery is only used for the piston return mechanism, LED light and electronics.  The nail gun is supposed to fire nails up until the battery no longer has a charge without a degradation in performance so all the nails are fully set even when the battery dies.  It uses compressed nitrogen sealed inside a 1/4 inch thick inner chamber, within the red anodized aluminum chamber, so it's a double chamber protected design.

Things I noticed when using it briefly.  Plasticy gun body that's got a poor fit and finish to the molds of the two halves of the gun.  There's a lot of play, more so on one side.  The nail track is beefy aluminum which I do like better than the breakable plastic one on my FP42 air nailer.  The depth of drive adjustment is excellent, however the LED light seems like a joke and waste of engineering (if there was any).  The Fusion gun also has a switch selectable firing with bump (continuous) firing, off and single shot/selective.  It shoots nails in both modes extremely well into the hardest of woods I could find and countersinks perfectly.  It is loud when firing, but not the same sound or volume level as a Paslode.  Hearing protection is highly recommended.  When I first fired the Fusion 15 gauge, the nail magazine shot off the gun and back at me and the nail strip went flying.  Maybe I didn't install the removeable magazine fully.  Not sure, but it hasn't happened since.  What I really don't like is the safety foot mechanism.  The design looks cheesy, like it can easily be bent and it's definitely not as smooth as the dual rods of my FP42.  The Fusion also has a small hard plastic foot protector that doesn't cover the entire safety foot causing marks in trim depending on what you're shooting and the angle at which the gun meets the wood.  My FP42 has a thick softer rubber foot that fully encloses the safety foot and doesn't mark anything.  Sometimes however, it has popped off, so I always check that it's there before nailing.

Here are pictures of the Fusion 15 gauge finish nailer and to further explain the problems I found with the Fusion nailer compared to my air powered FP42 nail gun.

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Here's a picture of a scrap of crown that I used for a "dry" test of the Fusion.
Notice in the second picture, the closeup of the cove area, the little dents in the wood.  That's from the exposed part of the Fusion nailer's safety foot.  If they had just used a different cover, like the same material as the air nailer and fully covering the foot, that wouldn't happen.  Sure you could fill the dents in, but why and what about working with stain grade wood?
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Here's the comparison of the two types of safety mechanisms on the FP42XP air nailer with its completely encased thick rubber cover and super smooth dual rod design compared to the Fusion FN65DA's cheesy safety only partially encased in a hard plastic cover.  It's got to be a bent safety just waiting to happen.
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Here are pictures aimed down the sightline of both guns.  Notice how difficult or actually impossible it is to see where you're actually firing the nail on the Fusion because of the backwards foot design, yet on the air powered FP42, it's wide open and easy to judge.  First picture is the Fusion gun.
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In the end (I think it's the end), I believe I will not keep the Fusion gun, especially because the way I look at it, even if I didn't have any issues with it, I still need an air compressor for the brad nailer and pinner when doing trim work.  I don't see a benefit for me just to have the finish nailer be airless, especially at $400.  How often would I only be shooting 15 gauge finish nails on a job?  I can't remember not using a mix of at least 18 gauge brads with it.
 
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