New table saw advice

[krudawg]

I've been using a Dewalt jobsite table saw and I'm interested in upgrading. I used to have a bigger craftsman but I was moving during the pandemic and got rid of some things as I didn't have space for a shop. My reasons for upgrading are for more capacity, ease of use, being able to use add ons and whatnot that a better saw can use. While money isn't necessarily a limiting factor, I don't want to overspend. I build mostly furniture. I am limited to 110v as a don't have 220 right now. I have also been considering a table saw with a router table attached. I have never had a router table but I see the benefits of not having to everything free hand. Are there cons to having a router table on the same table? If it makes any difference, I will probably be getting a track saw in the near future, when it's available again. I loved my TS55 and will probably get the TS75 because I do slab work regularly and the extra size seems helpful. I have a grizzly jointer that I'm pretty happy with but I'm open to anything. Any recommendations would be highly appreciated.

I've been getting a lot of emails from Harvey about their Alpha Line of Cabinet Saws and they  are awesome.  My buddy went out to theire showroom and looked at them very closly.  He spoke with the main guy there who claimed "Harvey has been building saws and slapping labels on them for other companies.  He told my buddy that his current lineup has all the good designs of other saw brands and designed the best ideas into his Table saw Line.  My buddy is an engineer and he said that they are really well engineered tablesaws.  He currently owns a 15 year old Ridged and will probably pick one up after he gets permission from "the war department" who is not quite sure she wants to part with the money

 

[jeffinsgf]

My opinion is that you have 2 (possibly 3) options. SawStop, vintage or possibly Harvey. I would rather track down and rebuild a Delta Unisaw from the 40s through the early 70s than buy any new saw made today with the exception of SawStop. The Harvey looks okay, but I haven't had hands on one, and many of the images on their web site aren't photos...they're renderings from technical drawings.

I also agree with CRG on the issue of table saw size. In fact, I think I could get by with 24" capacity, but have 36". Anything larger than that, I'm probably going to use a track saw, even if I had the table saw capacity.

I have the SawStop PCS. It's a fine saw and the safety feature is reassuring. I also have a vintage Craftsman that I rebuilt. I would be just as happy with that as my only table saw.

 

[Packard]

My opinion is that you have 2 (possibly 3) options. SawStop, vintage or possibly Harvey. I would rather track down and rebuild a Delta Unisaw from the 40s through the early 70s than buy any new saw made today with the exception of SawStop. The Harvey looks okay, but I haven't had hands on one, and many of the images on their web site aren't photos...they're renderings from technical drawings.

I also agree with CRG on the issue of table saw size. In fact, I think I could get by with 24" capacity, but have 36". Anything larger than that, I'm probably going to use a track saw, even if I had the table saw capacity.

I have the SawStop PCS. It's a fine saw and the safety feature is reassuring. I also have a vintage Craftsman that I rebuilt. I would be just as happy with that as my only table saw.

I have a saw that does not have a retracting splitter. It is the one thing I would like.

Splitters are mandated on all current production machines.

I understand the nostalgia about older machines, but in my opinion, buying a machine without the splitter is a mistake. 

It is probably a mistake too, to buy a machine without the hot dog stopping technology.  Saw Stop is the leader in that field, and their saws are supposed to be excellent even if you ignore the Saw Stop technology.

If I were in the market for a table saw, I would buy a current production Saw Stop with a 48” + fence.  If my finances allow it, I would get the cabinet saw for the improved dust collection.

 

[Packard]

I mounted my powerful Hitachi router in my table saw.  I cannot say I am happy with this.  I purchased an aluminum mounting plate (I forget from where).  With the Hitachi mounted, I cannot remove it by lifting the router through the hole I cut.  So mounting new router cutters involves climbing under the table.  Awkward. 

I have a few options.  I could mount my Porter-Cable 690 (not as powerful, but probably adequate).  The plate will accept the P-C router.

I could cut a larger opening and make a new plate from 1/4” plexi that I have. 

I could mount the Hitachi in a free standing station with easier access.

My point being, having the router can be good or bad, depending on how it was set up.  Adjusting the height is not a problem for me, just cutter changes.

Have you removed the handles? Or is the router rotated on the plate causing it to extend beyond the plates edge?

I was able to remove the handles.  It still would not fit.  I then remounted the router to the plate rotated 90 degrees.  Trimmed a small amount of the opening and the router lifts out.  A huge advantage to me.  So thanks.

 

[jeffinsgf]

I have a saw that does not have a retracting splitter. It is the one thing I would like.

Splitters are mandated on all current production machines.

I understand the nostalgia about older machines, but in my opinion, buying a machine without the splitter is a mistake. 

It is probably a mistake too, to buy a machine without the hot dog stopping technology.  Saw Stop is the leader in that field, and their saws are supposed to be excellent even if you ignore the Saw Stop technology.

If I were in the market for a table saw, I would buy a current production Saw Stop with a 48” + fence.  If my finances allow it, I would get the cabinet saw for the improved dust collection.

I don't favor older machines for nostalgic reasons, they are built heavier and to tighter tolerances. If some company was building quality machines today (other than SawStop) I would be just as enthusiastic about them.

It's a lot easier to add a splitter to a Unisaw than it is to make a functional saw out of the currently available crop.

All that said, if it's in the budget, a SawStop is the best option today. Quality saw and superb safety feature. 

 

[rst]

I broke my heart but I recently sold my early 80's Powermatic 66.  I had added the left hand iron extension to the right and also a Grizzly cast router extension.  This was not for a router but rather because I used Magswitch jigs.  I added a Jet sliding table to the left side, made it larger with 8020 extrusions so I could crosscut 48" sheets.  The Jet slider was similar to commercial sliders in that it had an articulating arm for support.  I used this for years until I bought into Festool for sheet goods.  The only thing I used it for in a couple years was for box joints using Freud's box joint 1/4 and 3/8 blades.  The guy that bought it travelled three hours as the newer, similar Powermatics were $5000.00.  I now have a Metabo 36/18v that works great, can be used with batteries of has a plug in transformer.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

SawStops are great, I have worked with several different models of them, but there is one glaring problem with them. I have never heard anyone ever mention it, which I find weird. I grumble under my breath every time I have to change the blade. The bosses that the screws of the throat-plate bear against could not possibly be in a worse place.
Anyone who has ever used a PowerMatic 66 will know exactly what I mean. The way you reach into the opening to spin the nut off of the arbor allows you to kind of cup your fingers under it as you go.
Try that with the SawStop and you will feel it immediately. That stupid lump of cast iron is right it the way.

Digging that damn nut out of the dust collection hose gets old pretty fast.

 

[jeffinsgf]

Digging that darn nut out of the dust collection hose gets old pretty fast.

If you're lucky enough for it to get into the hose and not into the bottom of the cabinet.

 

[ChuckM]

Knowing the risk (and trouble) of dropping the arbor nut, I am always careful, using both hands where needed, when I change the saw blade. So I have a 100% perfect track record of never dropping the nut or the flange with any of the three saws I've ever owned. Touch wood, just like holding the same perfect record of driving -- soon for half a century -- without any incidents.

I have never used the PowerMatic. so I don't how more challenging it is with the SawStop (ICS or PCS which I'm fully familiar with).

Some people put a wire net/mesh over the hose before loosening the nut and flange while some others seem to like this:
https://www.finewoodworking.com/202...tired-of-dropping-your-arbor-nut-add-a-magnet

 

[rmhinden]

I have only dropped the nut on my PCS once and it also went into the dust collection hose.  Wasn't hard to find

Bob

 

[simonh]

It is probably a mistake too, to buy a machine without the hot dog stopping technology.  Saw Stop is the leader in that field, and their saws are supposed to be excellent even if you ignore the Saw Stop technology.

It will be interesting to see what happens over the next few years with hot dog technology. I asked why the new battery-powered Festool CSC didn't have it and was told that it wouldn't work with no earth connection on a battery-powered saw. So, it seems there are some limitations and given the contractors' market is heading battery everything... ?

Also, in the industrial line, we now have the likes of Altendorf with big sliding table saws that have cameras that detect hand movement and retract the blades without damage.

 

[Michael Kellough]

I have only dropped the nut on my PCS once and it also went into the dust collection hose.  Wasn't hard to find

Bob

Is the hose right under the blade?

On my ancient (as old as me) Walker Turner saw the nut just drops into the dust accumulated in the bottom of the base cabinet. I keep a magnetic pickup nearby. The collection hose is out back at the bottom of the cabinet. I replaced a removable panel there with a port to fit the hose. Originally there was no provision for dust collection, just an access panel to fit a small shovel.  [tongue]

 

[Packard]

My DeWalt Contractors’ II saw has a funnel-like pan that connects to the 4” dust extraction hose. 

Years ago, I spent about 3 hours going through the dust, only to find that the nut only made it to the lowest section of the hose.

After that, I cut a piece of 1/4” x 1/4” (or maybe 3/8” x 3/8”) wire mesh meant for some sort of fencing.  I got it at Lowes in a small roll.  I cut it to fit over the tray. 

It does not interfere with the dust collection, and the saw blade nut is too large to fall through the openings.  I think even a 1/2” x 1/2” would work.

I just did the math.  Half inch squares would have a diagonal of 0.707”.  If the size of the nut across the flats is more than 0.707”, that would work also.

The hex shaped chicken wire will not. 

Funny thing though.  I have not dropped the nut since installing the mesh about 23 years ago. 

 

[rmhinden]

Is the hose right under the blade?

Sort of, there is a blade shroud that the hose connects to.  It does a good job for dust collection and catching the nut.

Here is a picture.

Bob

[attachimg=1]

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I dropped it twice last Saturday and neither time did it go down the hose, but that really is a thing. "Finding" it is not so bad, you know where it is, when it's down the hose. You just have to crawl under the outfeed table an disconnect the hose. This time, I heard it the metal bottom, so I knew it wasn't in the hose.
The dust collection is pretty decent, because of the trough thing, so digging in the dust isn't so bad. Our old PowerMatics would get neglected once in a while and the dust would get so deep inside that it would fall out on the floor, when the door was opened. I never dropped the nut or flange washer in those though.

 

[Packard]

My blade nut is about 1/3 the width of what is pictured.  The smallest aperture my nut has to travel on its way to the collection nag is 4” in diameter.  The image shown looks entirely foreign to me.

 

[Vtshopdog]

I dropped it twice last Saturday and neither time did it go down the hose, but that really is a thing. "Finding" it is not so bad, you know where it is, when it's down the hose. You just have to crawl under the outfeed table an disconnect the hose. This time, I heard it the metal bottom, so I knew it wasn't in the hose.
The dust collection is pretty decent, because of the trough thing, so digging in the dust isn't so bad. Our old PowerMatics would get neglected once in a while and the dust would get so deep inside that it would fall out on the floor, when the door was opened. I never dropped the nut or flange washer in those though.

Maybe have one of these magnetic pickup tools kicking around??https://www.amazon.com/flexible-magnetic-pickup-tool/s?k=flexible+magnetic+pickup+tool

 

[jeh]

SawStops are great, I have worked with several different models of them, but there is one glaring problem with them. I have never heard anyone ever mention it, which I find weird. I grumble under my breath every time I have to change the blade. The bosses that the screws of the throat-plate bear against could not possibly be in a worse place.
Anyone who has ever used a PowerMatic 66 will know exactly what I mean. The way you reach into the opening to spin the nut off of the arbor allows you to kind of cup your fingers under it as you go.
Try that with the SawStop and you will feel it immediately. That stupid lump of cast iron is right it the way.

Digging that darn nut out of the dust collection hose gets old pretty fast.

It is anecdotal but I have never dropped the screws in my 12+ years with a SawStop PCS. I am 6 months in on an ICS with no drops.