New Ti-15 bit excessive wobble/runout

Claimdude

Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2011
Messages
461
I purchased a Ti-15 kit about a week and a half ago from Toolnut. After I got it I tested it out (did not drive any screws just inserted the impact magnetic bit and phillips bit and pulled the trigger). It took me a while to bring it to Toolnut's attention as I wanted to be sure the run out was unacceptable. The drive shaft has an unacceptable amount of wobble that transmits to the bit holder and bit. I will be using the 6" extension and 6" square drive so the wobble gets really bad the longer the bit. I reported this to Toolnut via the info email address. I received a response asking if the problem could be the centrotec chuck. I set up a test using my T-15 (purchased earlier this year also from Toolnut) which has as close to zero wobble as I have ever seen in a drill of any brand. I made a video using my camera with the original Ti-15 bit bit and holder in the Ti-15 running slowly with my T-15 sitting behind it so you could see the wobble against the letters on the label of the T-15. I then put the bit with holder from my T-15 that runs true in the Ti-15 and the wobble was still there and shown in the video then I inserted the Ti-15 holder and bit in my true running T-15 and showed that it ran true in that drill, This isolates the problem to the Ti-15 itself. I have no gauges to use for testing but the most important part to me is how it feels when I use it. I can actually feel the vibration from the shaft in the drill in the handle of the drill.

I sent a link to my dropbox (video file too large to email) to the info email address). They viewed the video and later sent me an email stating they (I keep saying "they" as there was no name with the email) had spoke to Brent and Brad at Festool Service who recommended I fill out a tool service request at the website and send the drill in to the Festool service department. This is a brand new drill still within the 30 day money back guarantee period (at least until the clock runs out with me shipping the tool to Indiana). I went ahead completed the form and packed the drill for shipping but will not ship until tomorrow.

I sent a more detailed reply to the (send it to Festool folks) including some other concerns I have that are not for public consumption at 10:45 this morning and received no reply so I sent a status request at 2:15 and it is now 5:41 Central with no reply.

I must say that I purchased a C15 kit earlier this year (the precursor to the T-15 I have that runs perfectly) from the same vendor. It had the same severe wobble in the chuck that this Ti-15 does along with one other issue regarding my ability to use the C design. I contacted Toolnut and they did an immediate swap out for the T-15 so this experience has left me a bit perplexed. I purchased a CXS from Toolnut last week that is to be delivered tomorrow.

Bottom line is that at Festool's price point the tool should have a high level of operation, fit, finish, and run true. No exceptions. In fact they just launched an advertising campaign about the outstanding warranty service offered by Festool.

So, I am a bit disillusioned at this point. If the CXS doesn't meet my expectations it will be returned the next day. Is it necessary for me to drive 180 miles one way to visit a Woodcraft so I can test the drill before buying?

Jack
 
I'd call Toolnut and speak to them in person and tell them that you want to use the 30 day return policy. 

I think that there is a link on the FOG home page to address issues however, I have a hard time believing that Toolnut won't take care of this.

Jack
 
I would send a PM through the fog to the guys at Toolnut and make them aware again and tell them you will be calling in the morning.  As jacko9 mentioned, I think Toolnut will definitely make it right.
 
Can you show us in a video?

I had a really smart and competent customer ask me something similar yesterday and the chuck wasn't seated.

I was drilling a lot of holes while tired a couple of days ago. I stuck a little bit in a keyless chuck on the CXS and it was wobbling like crazy. I thought, "wasn't that funky". I looked a little closer and I had installed the bit in the chuck wrong. I've been properly installing bits in chucks for about 50 years and that hasn't happened this century but it happened.

'Just sayin'...

Tom
 
A link to the video would be nice. These are handheld drills, not stationary tools. So, there may be some run out. Of course, what's acceptable to one person may not be acceptable another. Precision is in the eye of the beholder.

If you want to send me a share to your Dropbox, I'd appreciate it.

Just as a note, I know that today was a heavy support day and we close at 5pm Eastern.

Sorry for the issues with the drill, but I'm sure we can get it resolved.

Shane
sho@festoolusa.com
 
Shane,

I just sent you an invite to my DropBox folder with the video in it.

Tom,

I am happy to send you an invite to see the video if you will send me your email address.

Also, the chuck has been on and off many times (did it several times while making the video) and I double check it to make sure the chuck and bit holder were seated properly. The same chuck and bit holder run true on my T-15.

All, Toolnut has been stand up in the past so this episode caught me a little off guard. My initial email to them was  a request for an RMA and a shipping label as I wished to return the tool for an exchange.

Jack
jlemley@usa.net
 
Jack,

I watched your video and wouldn't consider this an unreasonable amount of run out for a handheld drill. Like I said, each person has their own definition of what's acceptable.

Also, not sure how you emailed us, but I did not see an email generated via our website. Where did you email so I can follow up internally?

Again, sorry for the issues with the drill, but I'm sure we can get it resolved.

Here's the video for others to see what he's talking about. Maybe the members can give some insight. Note: the first two clips are of the TI 15, the last is of the T15.



Shane
 
I have seen similar wobble with all three of my T12 drills, and it seems to be Centrotec related.  When I look at just the spindle/shaft, I can see zero runout.  A while back I had measured and it came to something minuscule like 1.5 thousands (my old C12 was about 1 thou at the spindle).  Only when I add the Centrotec do I sometimes get a bit of wobble.  I do think that that is a weak point of Centrotec, but not the drill itself.  If I am driving screws, it doesn't matter at all; if I am drilling precise holes, I usually put the bit in the three-jaw chuck.
 
Shane,

Thanks for looking. My emails were to Toolnut not to Festool. I did complete the repair request for at festool USA  and printed a shipping label.

Also, while the wobble is not what most would consider significant it is important to me due to my physical limitations. Add a 6" extension on and the wobble is much more pronounced. One of the things that sold me on festool drills was my experience with my T-12 that had no wobble that could be detected by the eye. It was a joy to use. My T-15 is the same. At festool's price point I expect their tolerances to be much tighter than the Japanese drills especially since they designed the centrotec for added stability.

Oh, and if you need my email address it is jlemley@usa.net

Thanks
Jack
Shane Holland said:
Jack,

I watched your video and wouldn't consider this an unreasonable amount of run out for a handheld drill. Like I said, each person has their own definition of what's acceptable.

Also, not sure how you emailed us, but I did not see an email generated via our website. Where did you email so I can follow up internally?

Again, sorry for the issues with the drill, but I'm sure we can get it resolved.

Here's the video for others to see what he's talking about. Maybe the members can give some insight. Note: the first two clips are of the TI 15, the last is of the T15.



Shane
 
Swap the centrotec chucks and bits to confirm whether the runout is in the tool spindle, the chuck or the bit. The centrtec chuck does not seem to be fully seated in the Ti. I am suspicious of the shankof the bit being bent or havig a defect.
 
Greg,

Thank you for your thoughts on the matter. The video does not represent the only changes I tested they are just the ones that made the point I was answering for the Toolnut rep. And yes, the centrotec chuck is fully seated. The outer sleeve on the chuck of the Ti-15 has its own wobble that does not affect the function except visually and that is likely what you are seeing.

My desire is to be provided with a Ti-15 that is at least equal to my T-15 in fit, finish, and operation (ie little to no wobble). I have owned one other Festool driil (T-12) that was at least as good as my T-15 and maybe slightly better so I know Festool builds at least some drills that suit my needs. Surely, the drills with more wobble than I find acceptable are the exception and not the rule, meaning it shouldn't be that difficult for a technician either at Toolnut or Festool to test 3 or 4 drills to find one that satisfies me and to replace this one with.

Remember, that this drill is still well within the 30 day money back guarantee so the issue really should not have gone this far. I initially requested an exchange and was directed to send it to Festool.

Thanks everyone for listing.

To answer a common question more directly the chuck and bit are properly installed and fully seated.

Thanks
Jack
 
Are you using the same Centrotec chuck on both drills?  If not, try switching them.
 
The chucks are switched in the video in order to isolate the chuck as the culprit, so yes the have switched the chucks.

Jack
 
Hey Jack, just a head's up PJ is reaching out to you again in a few seconds.  I know you two have been emailing back 'n forth.  Trust me, you'll be taken care of no matter what happens here, so don't fret and don't stress any aspect of the transaction, tool quality, etc.  You'll be happy at the end of the day.  You have my word.

As for the lack of a signature in the emails, sorry about that!  It just came to our attention and your post here reinforced that.  We're on some new software and there are some lil bugs here 'n there that have come to our attention.  There's also been some protocol changes, this sig issue being one, that has now been resolved.  Again, thanks for making note of it.

Lastly, sorry for any tardiness yesterday in a reply.  The big man, Peter, has been out all week taking care of his lil' tyke who has strep.  No excuses, but he knows his stuff and PJ has been playing catch up this week in Peter's absence.  For the last day or so we've struggled, by a few hours, to deliver the service and responses you guys have come to appreciate and expect from us.

You can always reach out to me personally as well if you have any concerns, but PJ has got you all buttoned up.
 
Sean,

Thanks Sean! I did in fact here from PJ a few minutes ago and we have things worked out. Outstanding service recovery!!! Thanks again.

Jack
 
Jack,

Great speaking with you. A return shipping label will be landing in your inbox.
It was imperative to understand your needs better, it will help us tailor our approach, and we will be sure to provide you with a Festool Ti-15 which meets them. 
 
Thanks PJ! I dropped off the Ti-15 with the wobble issue at the UPS store this afternoon. I also spoke with Peter today. Everything is going swimmingly now.

Jack
 
The verdict is in!  I got my new CXS today. Tested out this evening and the spindle/bit holder/bit spin as true as my T-15!

Also, PJ, Peter and Sean at Toolnut have been awesome!!!

Jack
 
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