I'm new to my Domino. I have a wall oven that I would typically dado the shelf into the sides but since it is 2 layers of 3/4" glued together ply. I was thinking about Dominoing the bottom ply with 10mm dominos with the top of the domino level to the underside of the top piece of ply. This would basically make the domino like a series of shelf pins with the top 3/4" ply above it fully supported. It seems reasonable...the oven is over 200lbs. A nice tight spacing of 6 per side glued up seems plenty strong, opinions???
New to Festool, Wall oven support shelf with Domino
- Thread starter OttawaP
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Hi OttawaP,
Welcome to the FOG! [smile]
One thing to keep in mind with the method you describe is that only the top 3/4 plywood will be supporting where the Domino joins it to the side since the tenon is at the top edge of the bottom plywood. Not sure if this is a problem. Personally I think I would go with 8mm so that they could be in the bottom plywood piece. I did something similar to what you are doing..... I used 8mm and put some in the upper plywood layer and some in the bottom plywood layer. That way I could use lots of Dominoes without having them too close together in one row. If you do a double row be sure to be very precise with the layout or you will have trouble getting the mortises/tenons line up.
Seth
Welcome to the FOG! [smile]
One thing to keep in mind with the method you describe is that only the top 3/4 plywood will be supporting where the Domino joins it to the side since the tenon is at the top edge of the bottom plywood. Not sure if this is a problem. Personally I think I would go with 8mm so that they could be in the bottom plywood piece. I did something similar to what you are doing..... I used 8mm and put some in the upper plywood layer and some in the bottom plywood layer. That way I could use lots of Dominoes without having them too close together in one row. If you do a double row be sure to be very precise with the layout or you will have trouble getting the mortises/tenons line up.
Seth
Kevin Stricker
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I'm not a big fan of using dominos for fixed shelves mostly due to stressfull glue ups. If you do go the domino route make sure you pre glue your dominoes into your cabinet sides (because they are the shallow mortices and that will cut the number of glue joints you have to get done at glue up in half) and have some cauls on hand as those middle dominoes sometimes like to bow out the sides as the glue dries before you can get them clamped down tight. Because of this I tend to only use two dominoes per shelf, which I think compromises the strength of anything more than 12" deep.
If it was me I would dado the bottom shelf then glue the top shelf to the bottom once the cabinet was built.
If it was me I would dado the bottom shelf then glue the top shelf to the bottom once the cabinet was built.
Hi Paul,
Welcome to theFOG! Nice to see you here. [smile]
One of the rules of thumb is your Dominos thickness should be around one third the thickness of your material.
What parts of this double shelf will be visible. Is it just the front edge? What about the top and bottom sides?
Have you already glued the two pieces together already? How big are they - width/depth?
Where does the main weight of the housing of the oven rest on? Is it four feet; two protruding long ribs front to back, or side to side, running near the edge of either the front or the inner sides, and how far away from edge or wall will they be; or is the bottom perfectly flat?
What is the thickness of the sides you are gluing the shelf to. Will this be rigidly "boxed in" beside other solid elements?
I just think you'll get some even better advice with some of these details.
I have some ideas myself, but knowing some of these parameters, I'm not sure they would be something I would do. I'm not a Domino expert, maybe an avid intermediate level user, but I do love that Domino and look to it first when building most things now. True wonderdrug ....err tool. [big grin]
Welcome to theFOG! Nice to see you here. [smile]
One of the rules of thumb is your Dominos thickness should be around one third the thickness of your material.
What parts of this double shelf will be visible. Is it just the front edge? What about the top and bottom sides?
Have you already glued the two pieces together already? How big are they - width/depth?
Where does the main weight of the housing of the oven rest on? Is it four feet; two protruding long ribs front to back, or side to side, running near the edge of either the front or the inner sides, and how far away from edge or wall will they be; or is the bottom perfectly flat?
What is the thickness of the sides you are gluing the shelf to. Will this be rigidly "boxed in" beside other solid elements?
I just think you'll get some even better advice with some of these details.
I have some ideas myself, but knowing some of these parameters, I'm not sure they would be something I would do. I'm not a Domino expert, maybe an avid intermediate level user, but I do love that Domino and look to it first when building most things now. True wonder
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2007
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I generally follow the 1/3 Domino thickness rule of thumb also, but with the double layer a thicker one can be offset on the thickness a bit.
Love that idea of dadoing in the bottom layer and adding the top layer after [thumbs up]
Seth
Love that idea of dadoing in the bottom layer and adding the top layer after [thumbs up]
Seth
Kevin Stricker said:
Some good points here. There are actually two shelves, one for the oven and one for the MW. You may be right about the stress factor since I'm pretty new to the machine and if things aren't aligned perfect it might get ugly quick.
I'll just dado I think until I get a little more used to the tool. In all honesty I was looking for an excuse to use it as a warm up for a couple projects I have coming which was the reason I bought it.
As noted above I'm going back to using a dado. but to answer a few of your questions...
What parts of this double shelf will be visible. Is it just the front edge? What about the top and bottom sides? Nothing is visible, it's either behind a face frame or under an appliance.
Have you already glued the two pieces together already? How big are they - width/depth? No still in pieces and not cut to final size.
Where does the main weight of the housing of the oven rest on? Is it four feet; two protruding long ribs front to back, or side to side, running near the edge of either the front or the inner sides, and how far away from edge or wall will they be; or is the bottom perfectly flat? No idea it's just freakin heavy
What is the thickness of the sides you are gluing the shelf to. Will this be rigidly "boxed in" beside other solid elements? 3/4" ply sides, fully boxed, direct applied cabinet back, strong overall box
I just think you'll get some even better advice with some of these details.
I have some ideas myself, but knowing some of these parameters, I'm not sure they would be something I would do. I'm not a Domino expert, maybe an avid intermediate level user, but I do love that Domino and look to it first when building most things now. True wonderdrug ....err tool. [big grin]
What parts of this double shelf will be visible. Is it just the front edge? What about the top and bottom sides? Nothing is visible, it's either behind a face frame or under an appliance.
Have you already glued the two pieces together already? How big are they - width/depth? No still in pieces and not cut to final size.
Where does the main weight of the housing of the oven rest on? Is it four feet; two protruding long ribs front to back, or side to side, running near the edge of either the front or the inner sides, and how far away from edge or wall will they be; or is the bottom perfectly flat? No idea it's just freakin heavy
What is the thickness of the sides you are gluing the shelf to. Will this be rigidly "boxed in" beside other solid elements? 3/4" ply sides, fully boxed, direct applied cabinet back, strong overall box
I just think you'll get some even better advice with some of these details.
I have some ideas myself, but knowing some of these parameters, I'm not sure they would be something I would do. I'm not a Domino expert, maybe an avid intermediate level user, but I do love that Domino and look to it first when building most things now. True wonder
You don't need two sheets to support a 200lb oven. One sheet of 3/4 ply is plenty. I have built cabinets like this using butt joints and dowels. Typically six 8mm dowels per side. I use an older Festool joinery system called the VS 600, that makes it easy to drill the holes in the mating workpieces. The Domino's strength is definitely not in interior panel joinery like this, due to the problem of registration in a "field" with a handheld tool. Nevertheless, the Domino user manual suggests an approach, and I have followed the instructions with some success. I suggest four 8mm dominoes per side. The glue up will be less stressful with eight dominoes rather than twelve, and the shelf will be plenty strong. One problem with dowels--and a domino is just a type of dowel--is that it is difficult to apply adequate clamping pressure across the panels. Recently I've been using a hybrid system of dominoes and pocket hole screws for this type of application. Typically three dominoes and six pocket screws per side. The dominoes are for alignment and strength, and the pocket screws are for additional strength and eliminating the need to clamp.
Nick,
thanks for the comments. It's done and dadoed already but I may try it in the future. I know I don't need 2 layers but I like two layers none the less. I actually did do a few hybrid domino/pocket hole cabinet joints, it worked out quite nicely. Typically I just staple the boxes for alignment then pocket screw but it was an excuse to use the tool and it worked wonderfully. It was making those joints that got me thinking about the oven support after which led to my post ...... but I chickened out.
Paul
thanks for the comments. It's done and dadoed already but I may try it in the future. I know I don't need 2 layers but I like two layers none the less. I actually did do a few hybrid domino/pocket hole cabinet joints, it worked out quite nicely. Typically I just staple the boxes for alignment then pocket screw but it was an excuse to use the tool and it worked wonderfully. It was making those joints that got me thinking about the oven support after which led to my post ...... but I chickened out.
Paul
