New to the site and not pleased with TS55 dust collection. Need help

[SteveL]

Not exactly what I wanted my first post on the site to be but I recently got a TS55 and a CT Mini and after using them on approx 4 sheets of ply, I find that there is a lot more residual dust not captured than I thought would be. I’ve tried the 3D printed plastic side window cover and without and really don’t see any difference. I typically have the work fully supported on foam mats and try to take as shallow a cut as possible. Also, if it makes any difference, I have the chip breaker installed instead of the clear viewing window.

Love the ease of use and the cut quality but would like to improve the dust collection if possible. The CT Mini does an awesome job with a sander and Makita Palm router so I’m doubting the the 7 cfm difference between the Mini/Midi and larger versions would make much of a difference.

Any ideas of what can be changed or added or if I’m just expecting too much from this system. I see tons of videos where the users never seem to have this problem. Thanks in advance for any help that you can share.

 

[Birdhunter]

Without seeing a video of your cutting, it’s difficult to help.  I get dust thrown out at the end of a cut, but otherwise pretty clean.

 

[rvieceli]

Without seeing you cutting, some things to think about.

Ratchet back your expectations a bit. It's a good system but it's not perfect.

Make sure there are no obstructions in the saw or the vac hose.

Vac full blast not turned down and bag not full,

For best dust collection with the saw. The blade should be fully encased by the wood. a cut very close to the edge will create dust that escapes. The cut should also have a backer fully underneath. Foam should be good. A cut where the saw blade exits the bottom into free air will create dust.

A larger bore hose will often give better dust collection. A 36 mm hose should be better than a 22 or 27

Ron

 

[SteveL]

Thanks for the replies. I completely understand that one would get dust thrown out at the end of the cut or any cut for that matter that’s not fully supported from underneath. The foam mats that I’m using for support are Harbor Freight anti fatigue floor mats and usually support the entire piece and any track extension. And the matts are set on top of a large flat assembly table. I have been setting the cut depth to approx 4mm below the wood. Would going deeper help?

Having cataract surgery in the morning so it will be a couple of days before I can try anything out or try to video my process but appreciate your input.

 

[mino]

Anything aside, if you have a new Mini it comes with he "middle" 32/27 tapered hose.

If you can, try and get the bigger 36 mm hose for use with the Saw and other high-air-volume devices.

The default 32/27 hose is a universal one. It is thin-enough for sanding and thick-enough for saw extraction. The 36 mm hose is almost 2x the cross section and is able to drive almost 2x the amount of air volume which helps with extraction on the saw use case.

Last thing is to make sure your stock is supported across the cut from the bottom. A foam or other sacrificial material will do. This helps a LOT with dust extraction as the saw (naturally) cannot suck the particles expelled below the stock. Using a sacrificial as opposed to air-free cutting prevents that dust to escape and it gets sucked into the saw eventually.

All this, the only mess you will have when cutting sides of boards, but that is just a nature of it. You can make a dual-extraction attachment as some did for it. The saw (alone) is helpless there. With no material on the other side of the cut, there is nothing preventing the dust to escape the open cut and no matter the dust extraction optimization (of the saw itself) it will still escape unless something else restrains it.

 

[flair woodworks]

Having the saw teeth extend 4mm below the workpiece is perfectly reasonable, but a deeper cut depth will direct the sawdust upwards and improve dust collection, rather than shooting it more forwards.

 

[Stone Message]

[member=75122]SteveL[/member]

I have had this experience when using a similar plastic attachment. What happens when you do a lot of continuous (high dust) sawing is that the whole dust route gets clogged because there is insufficient air flow caused by blocking off the side window.

Peter

 

[Peter_C]

Use a D36 hose, and one of these> Festool 491750 Cover Plate For TS 55 Plunge Cut Saw. That is about as good of dust collection as you can get. *shrugs* The Festool plate needs to be cut to accommodate the chip guard, using a grinder.

Read the reviews.https://www.amazon.com/Festool-491750-Cover-Plate-Plunge/dp/B002VMJPQU

 

[mino]

[member=75122]SteveL[/member]

I have had this experience when using a similar plastic attachment. What happens when you do a lot of continuous (high dust) sawing is that the whole dust route gets clogged because there is insufficient air flow caused by blocking off the side window.

Peter

This!

The window also helps with edge-cuts as the window sucks in a lot of the fine dust that has escaped the initial collection and is already in the air - so one does not breathe it. When doing edge cuts, I actually let the saw run a 10 sec or so at the end of the cut, to allow the vac to suck up much of the dust "cloud" created.

When you close the "key port" what happens is more air is sucked from the left part of the saw (where there is a huge opening by necessity) and less from the right side where the most dust is generated during the edge cuts.

In the end the opening closed helps a bit with dust collection when in an ideal scenario - a cut in the middle of material on top of a  backing material. But makes the worst case scenario - edge cuts - even worse.

Unfortunately most "youtubers" test only the ideal scenario ... and extrapolate to others.

[member=41421]Peter[/member] Parfit
Not sure of your contacts with Festool. But there is a huge opportunity for Festool or someone under their commission to get an interview with their engineers and then make videos actually explaining how their saws work from various aspects and WHY they are better overall.
There is a lot of "sincerely helpful" advice out there, including on FOG, which is actually confusing and creates just bad press for Festool in the end. With no "reference" source of information it is pretty hard for a casual customer to make heads and tails of many of the features he pays when getting the tools ..

 

[mrboult]

I agree with chris that a deeper cut directs the dust into the housing and extraction path better. 

I disagree that covering the opening has an adverse effect. I tape mine and def find it better at collection when sealed. (no proper testing just my thought from years and years of doing it. Tape comes off a lot to change blades, and then I notice the dust, so put it back on . .

Obviously trim cuts right on the edge of a board spill a lot of dust as there is no offset left to 'seal' the cutting path. . .

 

[Stone Message]

Hi [member=61254]mino[/member]

Nice idea - perhaps someone could suggest it to them. I already have an idea to do something about Festool UK's new site. I am told that it is rather smart and has an excellent training centre.

Peter

 

[Peter_C]

Here is a thread on dust collection and the side cover plate. I've found the same results.https://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?pretty;board=festool-tool-reviews;topic=cover-plate-review-ts55.msg13459#msg13459

For my MFT table I made a small block plate right behind the end of the rail to direct the dust from the end of the cut to hit the wall and in theory fall. It works pretty good to keep the dust from spraying further.

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.

Ratchet back your expectations a bit. It's a good system but it's not perfect.

Ron

This line of thinking certainly will help after trying the suggestions seen here (larger hose, deeper cuts, side cover plate, etc.).

Of all the Festool machines I've used (a lot!) or owned (a few, including at one time a TS75), only the domino joiner is dust-proof -- if you see dust in your mortises, something is wrong somewhere.

 

[semenza]

Here is a thread on dust collection and the side cover plate. I've found the same results.https://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?pretty;board=festool-tool-reviews;topic=cover-plate-review-ts55.msg13459#msg13459

For my MFT table I made a small block plate right behind the end of the rail to direct the dust from the end of the cut to hit the wall and in theory fall. It works pretty good to keep the dust from spraying further.

Wow, I can't believe it was 13 + years ago that I did that review.  I had only been a forum member for about two months.

  [member=75122]SteveL[/member]  welcome to the forum. Seems like your set up should be doing a great job on the DC. If you could get a video with a good angle to show the dust  and such during a cut that would be helpful.

  Did the DC start out better and get worse?  You could take the side cover off the saw to make sure that there is no obstruction inside the housing. This usually only happens with larger chips such as those created when using a rip blade but you never know. I wonder if maybe the rubber mat material is building up inside?

  I find that the D27/32 hose or even the straight D27 is generally plenty of flow for the TS55. Yes, the D36 is a bit better but I have never found the smaller hoses to be lacking to the point that I question the DC being very good.

  Others findings are different than mine, but I have never had the DC be worse with the access hole covered. It should be noted that the cover pate does more than close the hole. It also extends down closer to the table surface.

  Just my input and experiences.

Seth

 

[sancho57]

Hmm answered and dont see it posted so Ill do it again

Get a 37mm hose it will do a better job at extraction, what surface are you cutting on?

If not directly on a MFT then get a sheet of rigid foam insultation and cut on that it helps with extraction.

try cutting w/o using you CT, then with your CT you will appreaciate how much it actually does help.

FT doesnt say its 100% dust free. But frm experiance its a lot better than most of whats out there.

 

[jarbroen]

I had the same challenges with dust when I first started using the TS55.
Then I purchased the 36mm hose and couldn’t believe how much of a difference it made.  The bigger hose is also a huge improvement when using a router.
The smaller hoses are great when using sanders or the Domino, but not for the bigger tools.
I never saw the need for any mods after switching hoses.
Get the tradesman set that comes with the 36mm hose and the attachments.  Then you can sell off the Systainer and have a more reasonable investment in hose and cleaning tools.

 

[semenza]

Hmm answered and dont see it posted so Ill do it again

Get a 37mm hose it will do a better job at extraction, what surface are you cutting on?

If not directly on a MFT then get a sheet of rigid foam insultation and cut on that it helps with extraction.

try cutting w/o using you CT, then with your CT you will appreaciate how much it actually does help.

FT doesnt say its 100% dust free. But frm experiance its a lot better than most of whats out there.

  In case someone is searching for a Festool D37 hose it is actually called a D36.

  Yes, try it without DC. Then put the saw down and go take a break while you are cursing about needing to vacuum the whole shop.  [big grin]

Seth

 

[Christopher Fitch]

I have one on my TS55 - it does help. I don't make bevel cuts much so it stays on all the time.

 

[woodferret]

Not necessarily TS55 specific as I've noticed it on my Triton too, but if I get impatient and force it a bit too fast it'll be less efficient on the dust collection - bigger chips, more momentum, less time for the airflow to suck it up.  It's not enough to affect quality of cut, but it happens.  The bigger hose helps but mostly I think to increase the area that's under flow.

 

[mino]

I agree with chris that a deeper cut directs the dust into the housing and extraction path better. 

I disagree that covering the opening has an adverse effect. I tape mine and def find it better at collection when sealed. (no proper testing just my thought from years and years of doing it. Tape comes off a lot to change blades, and then I notice the dust, so put it back on . .

Obviously trim cuts right on the edge of a board spill a lot of dust as there is no offset left to 'seal' the cutting path. . .

Maybe I was not clear.

I found that that closing the hole in general */does/* improve dust collection universally if measured by the percentage of dust collected. And certainly so for normal cuts.

However, on an edge cut, what happens is that a lot of the very-fine dust which tends to form a "cloud" around the workplace is no longer caught by the suction from the hole and keeps "floating" in the air sideways to and above the saw where there no other hole to suck it in.

With the hole opened most of this fine-particle dust cloud, which initially escaped, gets sucked into the hole indirectly - basically first floating and then being secondarily caught by the air vortex the hole creates.

Maybe the difference is I do not cut MDF but generally plywood and wood - so my "small" dust is less powdery and more floating. It actually visible under proper light conditions. I can even see how the dust gets sucked into the side hole and how it just tends to "suspend" in the air when the hole is closed.

In either case, it may be that with the hole closed (and/or the CP) the percentage of the dust by weight/volume caught is is indeed higher. But what matters to me is not what is not the ground but what is (not) in my lungs and I will maintain that the open hole and no CP means that less of the "free floating escapee" fine dust gets released and left in the air as with "redirecting" part of the air suction to pull contaminated air from area next to the saw.

EDIT: too fast posting ..