Newbie about to take the Festool plunge; A few questions.

[hotbikr]

Greg:

You might save space by doing projects that require moving the car out until the project is completed.  Then over a couple of years somehow the car is no longer in the garage at all.  It worked for me and my wife loves the furniture.  Whatever you do you can't go wrong with Festool.  My garage shop is full of Festool and it's made my life so much easier.  I do have a grizzly cabinet saw though.  I cut sheet goods with the TS 55, it's way safer. 

Good luck,  Jim

 

[score0matic]

Jim
thanks for your post  and welcome to the Forum.  
Craig

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Interesting post.  This question comes up pretty often.  My opinion is that if space is the problem, then losing the TS is probably the best option.  Not to say that tablesaws don't have some advantages, but the collection of tools you propose could certainly do anything a TS can do - and more safely.  I am a hobbyist, making mostly hardwood furniture with the occasional piece of casework using sheetgoods.  I have a tablesaw, but frankly its not earning its keep and it gets a hard look every time I need to make space for a big project or a new tool.
Welcome to the forum.  Looking forward to seeing pics of your furniture.

 

[honeydoman]

Thanks for all the excellent advice.   Now it's time to have "the talk" with my wife. 

-Greg

no you do not have a talk with your wife.  what you do is take her out and buy here some shoes, maybe 2 pair, only,  and get yourself a pair of tennis shoes.  then buy her lunch..  then drop her off at home and go to woodcraft and spend 3 gran on tools.

bring them home....... now the reason for the 2 pair of shoes and tennis shoes. 

make sure you have the tennis shoes on.  her first pair of shoes will be to kick you in the rear and with the tennis shoes you can out run her when she chases you out the door !  LOL

the other pair of shoes who cares. !

 

[kdi]

I just replaced a Bosch 4410L scms w/ a Kapex for space reasons.  But I also have a Unisaw that I would never be w/o.  It gets used for too many tasks including ripping rails/stiles, cutting tenons, squaring panels, etc.  The right extension houses my router.  I just roll it from its parking spot to work position.

Breaking down sheet goods is getting to be a pain in the butt for me and I must admit to thinking about the Festool approach.

As with all of these discussions there are usually several ways to accomplish the same task.  It all depends on what you build and how you build it.

Good luck w/ whatever you do.

 

[honeydoman]

kidi,

yep I have the unisaw and also would not be without it.  however, since I started using the festool ts55 and rails to rip up sheet goods.  i would not go back to table saws for this task ever again.

using the saw and rails makes it so much easier and safer witout struggling with the large sheet trying to push it through the saw, unless you have a huge set up like norm abrams does with an infeed and outfeed the size of the sheet!

once you use the saw and rail, then you will realize how much easier it is.  get it for xmas! [eek]

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Hey Greg,
I couldn't tell with a quick read whether anyone answered your question about whether the Festool system is as accurate as a tablesaw.

The short answer is yes.

I originally bought the TS55 thinking I would use it to break down sheet goods to manageable sizes then do the final cuts on the tablesaw.  I soon realized that the TS55 and the rails were cutting dead square and perfect dimensions every time.  Never had to use the tablesaw for sheetgoods again.

Having said that, just like any other tool, the TS55 works best when used thoughtfully.  You will need at good square to set up the rails.  You do need to use the clamps if accuracy is important.  If repeatability is important, use a stop block.  If you are joining multiple rails, get the screws almost tight and run the saw (power off) over the joint a few times until it runs perfectly smoothly.  Minimize tearout with a sheet of cheap foam insulation under your workpiece. There are several threads on the forum about this strategy.  Keep your blade sharp. If the pieces aren't too big, use the MFT with the saw.

That sounds like a lot, but it becomes second nature soon.  If you do that, you should get accuracy as good or better than a unisaw.

By the way, more good news for your crowded shop... The whole sheets of sheetgoods need never enter your shop.  I set up saw horses in the driveway, back the pickup loaded with plywood up to a few feet away from the saw horses.  Then I slide the top sheet onto the horses, use the rails and TS55 to make my cuts and slide out the next piece.  Notice I never lift the whole sheets - a boon for the old back. 

So the Festool is just as accurate as the Tablesaw.  What the tablesaw really does well is when you are making the same rip cut dozens of times.  No easier way to do that than a tablesaw.

 

[TheToolPlace]

I have to disagree with Brice on the Bosch table saw recommendation. I do NOT like that saw, never have, doubt I ever will. A friend I used to do installs with has that saw. I never liked using that thing, it always worried me for some reason. The saw just had a bad vibe. I used to warn him about that saw. It took 3 1/2 of his fingers off of one hand. He's not a newbie either, he grew up in a shop. My dad used to buy from his dad. He does ok these days but with only 6 1/2 fingers working is far more difficult.
Markus

Markus,

What specifically don't you like about the Bosch table saws?  They are by far our number one seller.  We sell hundreds of these each year at our two locations.  I am very interested in hearing what had worried you about the saw before your friends accident. 

It's always unfortunate when someone is hurt using any tool.  But as most people here would agree it is almost always operator error and not the fault of the tool.

Chad

 

[storeo69]

I personally couldn't live without my tablesaw but I feel your pain in reference to the space issue.  I too am in a space crunch as well but I have everything on wheels, utilize overhead storage, shelving everywhere, and anything else that I could come up with. I think that you need to bite the bullet and have the talk with the better half because if you keep tip toeing around this too much time will lapse and you will still be struggling with the space issue.  Sell the tablesaw take the hit to the wallet, do a bunch of research, make you decision and once you surprise her with a piece of furniture she will forget about the dollars spent.  I would suggest taking a look at some of the tabletop tablesaws they have a long ways.

 

[peter halle]

Storeo,,
[welcome] to the Forum.

Peter

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I like my bosch 4100, I find it to be a rather easy saw to use.

With my ts-55 and that bosch, I put my powermatic 66 in storage.

 

[Dan Clermont]

I have been woodworking fo rmany years and never owned a tablesaw up until recently.

My shop consisted of a bandsaw for the narrow stuff, plunge cut saw, router, sander and a jonter/planer. The bandsaw can do allot of the narrow boards and you can dimension them properly with the planer and jointer. Built allot of furnign

My shop also uses allot of hand tools as I enjoy the peace and quiet. Their is also something therapeutic about a sharp plane taking fine shavings. Very gratifying!!

Dan Clermont

 

[TheToolPlace]

Their is also something therapeutic about a sharp plane taking fine shavings. Very gratifying!!

Agreed!

 

[Peter Hamilton-Scott]

Thanks for all the excellent advice.   Now it's time to have "the talk" with my wife. 

-Greg

Best of luck in your negotiations with your Minister of Finance. Could you not reclaim some space by off-loading some of the kids toys that are never likely to be used again or find some other storage location for them? As a brother hobbyist as well I've never even thought of using my table saw again since I started on the Slippery Slope leading to the Temple of Festool Siths. I will keep it just in case I have a need to do something with it again. If nothing else drop the word saw and use what's left as a table for cups of coffee and sandwiches. Certainly the collection of Festools will give you a serious edge on safety. There have been times I've felt really uncomfortable using a table saw. Never enough to actually feel physically at risk but I look upon it like I would do a cobra. It says to me "get to close and I'll spit in your face." So I keep my distance. Also, the Festool routers go from 20000 to 0 rpm in about two seconds. You can't put a price on safety features like that.

 

[James Watriss]

If I had to do it all over again, I'd start with the festool system, this cutting table, and a good 18" band saw. Most 18's have lower tables, which makes rough cutting and breaking down stock a lot easier than it would be on a 14. My table saws just take up too much space, between extensions and infeed and outfeed... not that Band saws lessen the need for in and outfeed, but it doesn't have to be as wide.

The only thing I do on my table saw that I find to be easier than on a BS, is cutting certain kinds of joinery. But for those tasks, I could do it against a wall, and save a lot of space.

Edited because I wrote 'this cutting table' and didn't link it.

'this cutting table.'

 

[UCLA Fan]

another vote for the Bosch and ts55 from me. I have the first issue of the bosch 4100 with gravity stand and I love that saw. IMHO sometimes it is better to bring the wood to the tool and sometimes it is better to bring the tool to the wood. I have a 1 and a half car garage myself so I have had to be very creative in my mobility setup of my tools. The bosch takes up very little room when folded, has plenty of power and is very accurate and quickly repeatable. I have seen all the various ways to use the ts55/75 as a substitute for a table saw and when you have to do that much setup/breakdown/re-setup it really takes away from the joy of the hobby. Don't get me wrong I love my ts55 and for breaking down sheet goods nothing compares. It is also great for truing up one edge of rough stock before going to the table saw. I find the ts55 to be great for stock up to about 1 1/4 inch but it does struggle in tough woods. The ts75 would be great but I build alot of cabinets and break down alot of ply so the added size, cost and weight of the ts75 did not meet my needs but might be great for yours.