OF 1400 EQ Router Misalignment

[PA_Woodworker]

As compensation for my support helping my neighbor build a trestle table my neighbor gifted to me a Festool OF 1400 EQ Router. Naturally I had to try it out and give it a general inspection. My observations -
I installed the Festool 493566 Guide Bushing Adaptor and a guide bushing. Had I energized the router I would have destroyed the guide bushing - the guide bushing and the router bit were not concentric. Rotating the router bit by hand it attempted to dig into the guide bushing. Eye-balling I'd say the out of concentricity is somewhere in the .015 - .020 inch range. This misalignment renders the router useless for any function requiring the use of a guide bushing.
I've sent e-mail reports and requests for assistance in getting the router in proper working order to both the USA headquarters as well as the German headquarters - 5 e-mails total over a three - four week period - they all have been ignored.
This is my second Festool product that has been "out of wack" - I'm doubting that they are worth the price Festool asks.

23 January 2015 - I visited a local Woodcraft store today to discuss the above with them. The manager located a Guide Bushing Adapter that was "out-of-alignment" in the opposite direction of the out-of-concentricity of the router. So, now I have a router that is "almost on" as long as the Guide Bushing Adapter is inserted into the base with the proper orientation (if not oriented properly the error of alignment is "double off" from what it was originally.
It's interesting that two Festool manufacturing errors (misalignments) combine to ALMOST make the alignment perfect.
So, I guess the old saying "two wrongs don't make a right" isn't always correct.

I'm disappointed in Festool and their unwillingness to "stand behind" this router.

 

[SittingElf]

I would imagine that Shane will be responding to you shortly, and that you will likely be called by Festool Support.
If you read through the topics here, you will find that Festool support is outstanding. I can't imagine that Festool has not responded to your queries. It would be a first.

Stand by.... I'm sure you will be hearing something VERY shortly...though Shane is traveling this weekend, he checks in regularly.

Cheers,

Frank

 

[dltflt]

Did you use the centering mandrel when you were installing the guide bushing?

 

[peter halle]

Sorry to hear about your issue.  I can assure you that Festool has not purposely ignored you.  That just isn't the way that they roll.

I will be moving this topic into a place that they monitor closely.

Peter

 

[PA_Woodworker]

Did you use the centering mandrel when you were installing the guide bushing?

Centering Mandrel does not work with the universal guide bushing adapter. The guide bushing is "centered" in the adapter, no side play to make any adjustments.
Not like a Porter Cable, or others, that allow you to loosen base mounting screws and center the plate on the router base. Festool bases are pinned and not movement is allowed.

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Robert,

I'm not sure what happened with the lack of a response on the emails you sent through the website, which I see in our website's log.

I've asked someone to reach out to you immediately on the issue.

Please accept our apologies for the delayed response, which is atypical.

PS - We do have record of a 3:09 phone call to you on 12/29.

Shane

 

[ear3]

Trying to understand -- is the issue that there's arbor run-out with the router itself, or is it that the guide adapter is off and can't be centered?

Did you use the centering mandrel when you were installing the guide bushing?

Centering Mandrel does not work with the universal guide bushing adapter. The guide bushing is "centered" in the adapter, no side play to make any adjustments.
Not like a Porter Cable, or others, that allow you to loosen base mounting screws and center the plate on the router base. Festool bases are pinned and not movement is allowed.

 

[PA floor guy]

Try going on a dewalt or Milwaukee site, and see if the big guy from there company answers you almost instantly.  That is a festool only thing. Like I said, Shane rules. Good job Shane. 

 

[Linbro]

When you say 'gifted', do you mean it was second hand, or was it brand new?

 

[PA_Woodworker]

Trying to understand -- is the issue that there's arbor run-out with the router itself, or is it that the guide adapter is off and can't be centered?

Did you use the centering mandrel when you were installing the guide bushing?

Centering Mandrel does not work with the universal guide bushing adapter. The guide bushing is "centered" in the adapter, no side play to make any adjustments.
Not like a Porter Cable, or others, that allow you to loosen base mounting screws and center the plate on the router base. Festool bases are pinned and not movement is allowed.

Edward: As I see it, it's not arbor run-out - its a build-up of machining tolerances that shift the center of the collet off the center of the router motor shaft/arbor.
Interesting development: Yesterday, 1/23,  I took the router to the Woodcraft store in Allentown, PA to see if they could help me resolve the misalignment issue. I equipped the router with the 493566 Guide Bushing Adapter a 17/32” ID X 5/8” OD guide bushing and I inserted a ½” diameter centering-shaft (from my Porter Cable Router) into the router collet. As equipped the ½” diameter shaft was hard-pressed against the inside of the guide bushing.  A Woodcraft employee looked around and found another 493566 Guide Bushing Adapter that, at first glance, remedied the situation. What I discovered after I returned home was that the adapter he provided must be inserted in the proper orientation to offset the non-concentric error in the router. It’s important to note that the replacement adapter must be inserted in the proper orientation because if the adapter is removed and rotated 180 degrees and then reinserted the non-concentric error doubles. Had I realized this while still at the store I would have opted to keep my original adapter.
The conclusion from my visit to Woodcraft is that not only is the router non-concentric, but the adapter they provided is also non-concentric. The only reason an improvement was noted is that the errors in each cancel each other out when the new adapter in properly oriented.

 

[PA_Woodworker]

Robert,

I'm not sure what happened with the lack of a response on the emails you sent through the website, which I see in our website's log.

I've asked someone to reach out to you immediately on the issue.

Please accept our apologies for the delayed response, which is atypical.

PS - We do have record of a 3:09 phone call to you on 12/29.

Shane

Shane: I received a call from Brent S. yesterday - he stated that "we need to get that router in here to see what's going on". He told me that someone from the service department will contact me Monday.
It's obvious from my examination that the router is out of alignment as well as the new 493566 Guide Bushing Adapter I received yesterday from Woodcraft of Allentown, Pa.

Here's a summary of my visit to the Woodcraft Store:
January 23, 2015  I took the router to the Woodcraft store in Allentown, PA to see if they could help me resolve the misalignment issue. I equipped the router with the 493566 Guide Bushing Adapter a 17/32” ID X 5/8” OD guide bushing and I inserted a ½” diameter centering-shaft (from my Porter Cable Router) into the router collet. As equipped the ½” diameter shaft was hard-pressed against the inside of the guide bushing.  A Woodcraft employee looked around and found another 493566 Guide Bushing Adapter  that, at first glance, remedied the situation. What I discovered after I returned home was that the adapter he provided must be inserted in the proper orientation to offset the non-concentric error in the router. It’s important to note that the replacement adapter must be inserted in the proper orientation because if the adapter is removed and rotated 180 degrees and then reinserted the non-concentric error doubles. Had I realized this while still at the store I would have opted to keep my original adapter.
The conclusion from my visit to Woodcraft is that not only is the router non-concentric, but the adapter they provided is also non-concentric. The only reason an improvement was noted is that the errors in each cancel each other out when the new adapter in properly oriented.
Thanks for your interest.

 

[Wuffles]

Can you take a picture? I think I can imagine what you are describing, but what I am imagining sounds ludicrous (not in an offensive way) that two machined objects could be that far out.

 

[Stoli]

I had a similar problem. The opening in my adapter was so small that the bushing would not even sit correctly. I checked other mounts and found a woodpecker plate the same size, and determined for myself that the problem was a lack of clear standardization of the bushings. I ended up chucking the bushing in my drill press and turning down the shoulder.

Here is my original thread, with links to other similar threads:
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/guide-bushing-adaptor-493566-opening-too-small/msg299261/#msg299261

 

[Stone Message]

Did you use the centering mandrel when you were installing the guide bushing?

Centering Mandrel does not work with the universal guide bushing adapter. The guide bushing is "centered" in the adapter, no side play to make any adjustments.
Not like a Porter Cable, or others, that allow you to loosen base mounting screws and center the plate on the router base. Festool bases are pinned and not movement is allowed.

You can make the adjustment, using the mandrel, which then puts the base (that accepts the guide bush) where it should be. I have not tried it but I seem to remember that there are (I think) 2 screws to loosen and this allows the base to be adjusted.

I am sure someone who has done this can now chip in. I would go and try this with my OF 1400 but I am confined to the house for the time being.

Peter

 

[PA_Woodworker]

Can you take a picture? I think I can imagine what you are describing, but what I am imagining sounds ludicrous (not in an offensive way) that two machined objects could be that far out.

The location of the router motor and it's bearings depends on machined seats for the bearings - they each have tolerances.
The tolerance of the collet is based on machining tolerances.
The machining for the plunge posts in the motor housing each have tolerances.
The machining for the plunge posts in the router base casting each have tolerances.
The machining of the router base to accept the insert that accepts adapters has multiple tolerances.
The insert that accepts the universal guide bushing adapter has multiple machining tolerances.
The pins location machining that locates the same adapter in the router base all have multiple tolerance in both mating parts.
The universal guide bushing adapter that clips into the adapter that is fastened to the router base is a formed sheet metal part (formed sheet metal parts have notoriously loose tolerances, as did two I've already tried) that has a tolerance that is looser than any machining.
So, it's not two machined parts that come into a build up of tolerances, all of the above are to be considered, if any one is off the tool is off.
Frankly, I don't know how Festool ever expected things to line up with out some method of post-assembly adjustment like others use.
I'm having trouble attaching an image, sorry.
Best regards,
Rob

 

[PA_Woodworker]

Did you use the centering mandrel when you were installing the guide bushing?

Centering Mandrel does not work with the universal guide bushing adapter. The guide bushing is "centered" in the adapter, no side play to make any adjustments.
Not like a Porter Cable, or others, that allow you to loosen base mounting screws and center the plate on the router base. Festool bases are pinned and not movement is allowed.

You can make the adjustment, using the mandrel, which then puts the base (that accepts the guide bush) where it should be. I have not tried it but I seem to remember that there are (I think) 2 screws to loosen and this allows the base to be adjusted.

I am sure someone who has done this can now chip in. I would go and try this with my OF 1400 but I am confined to the house for the time being.

Peter

Peter,

The part is located by two pins installed by Festool during manufacturing. So, a mandrel will not work unless one removes the factory installed pins. For the price of the tool I don't expect that I should have to deconstruct the router to make it work correctly - Do you?

Rob

Rob

 

[ear3]

It looks from the picture that the alignment is so far off that even if the adapter had more play in it, it still wouldn't be enough to center.  Is that basically the correct diagnosis?

I haven't used the guide bushings with my 1400 (but I'm now going to check mine), but I will say that the equivalent plastic adapter for the 1010 is similarly useless, as it fits so snugly in the sub-base that it can't be centered.

 

[Stone Message]

Did you use the centering mandrel when you were installing the guide bushing?

Centering Mandrel does not work with the universal guide bushing adapter. The guide bushing is "centered" in the adapter, no side play to make any adjustments.
Not like a Porter Cable, or others, that allow you to loosen base mounting screws and center the plate on the router base. Festool bases are pinned and not movement is allowed.

You can make the adjustment, using the mandrel, which then puts the base (that accepts the guide bush) where it should be. I have not tried it but I seem to remember that there are (I think) 2 screws to loosen and this allows the base to be adjusted.

I am sure someone who has done this can now chip in. I would go and try this with my OF 1400 but I am confined to the house for the time being.

Peter

Peter,

The part is located by two pins installed by Festool during manufacturing. So, a mandrel will not work unless one removes the factory installed pins. For the price of the tool I don't expect that I should have to deconstruct the router to make it work correctly - Do you?

Rob

Rob

Hi Rob,

You do not need to deconstruct the router. It is an easy adjustment to make and Festool expect you to do this. They supply the mandrel as an accessory for this purpose. I am not able to go to my workshop to help with my own photographs but hope that you get all the information that you need from this thread which answers your problem directly:

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/of-1400-problem-with-router-bit-not-centered-in-copying-ring/

Peter

 

[PA_Woodworker]

Peter,

You wrote "You do not need to deconstruct the router", but the link you included to the earlier post clearly states that the plate is removed and the location pin holes are enlarged to allow the plate to shift.
Sounds like a deconstruct to me.
Again - for the price of this router no one should have to perform a jury-rig like this.
If Festool expected the consumer to perform this modification, then why did they put the locating pins there in the first place.

Regards,
Rob

 

[Nippychippy]

Sorry about this reply but I am not sure I get wont your trying to say in the TWO TREADS  you have started I appreciate if your having problems with your tools that are going to be fixed free of charge. But you keep going on about the price and how at this price it should be perfect well I sorry I have never heard of this with any tool manufactur apart from maybe lie neliesn planes every tool you buy needs fetling from hammer and felder machines dewalt makita  every tool company maybe I have less higher standards than you and everyone else  [scratch chin].  I am not trying to be mean sorry if it's come across that way