OF2200 vs Shaper?

[nanook]

So, I was just eying sharpers!  [eek] - I was wondering how the OF2200 and CMS (or other router table) worked as an alternative to say a 3hp shaper w/ sliding table?
To be honest, I know the 2200 is not rated for the CMS in NA - I was wondering though what people felt the advantages/disadvantages were for the 2200 vs a traditional sharper motor.

I was wondering about max amperage and wattage, for the 110V or 220v routers, also does anyone know their rated efficiency?

I know all about the DC, portability, et al - I'm attracted to the sliding table, but REALLY want to do an Apples to Apples comparison between the OF2200 and 2-3hp Shaper. 
What are the advantages of each motor? 

Also wondering what the max power draw is for the 2200 at 220v vs 110v?  What is the service time of the OF2200 in terms of continuous load?

 

[Alan m]

i have the OF2000 (model before of 2200). i use it hand held only.
i dont think any router is a match for a spindle moulder (shaper to you)
in colage we used spindal moulders all the time  . no router could compete. the router can only spin a 3.75" bit . the spindle moulder can do 2,3,4 times the size of that.
comine all that with all the diferent cutters and bearing options for the spindal moulder i would buy the spindle moulde rand leave the of2200 for free hand work.

 

[MrToolJunkie]

The OF2200 is an engineering marvel and has been referred to as a hand held shaper. However, it is still a universal motor limited to 3 1/2 inch bits.  Depending on what you need to do, this might serve your needs.  A shaper can run circles around any router in terms of power and torque and even smaller shapers can take bigger tooling.  If I were in a production type environment needing to shape lots of board feet for molding or  tongue and groove or raised panels then I would opt for a shaper. Otherwise a router is a good alternative for occasional use in this type of setting.  The OF2200 excels at hand routing tasks and while some users outside of N. America do install there 2200 machines in the CMS I think there are other capable routers for CMS use, including the OF1400.  

I am sure others will weigh in as well with their experiences.

Scot

 

[jacko9]

Depending on what you want to cut, large cuts like tongue and groove for flooring or raised panel for 1 3/4 inch thick doors a shaper would be a better fit than a router.  I have a 1 1/2 HP Baldor motor on my shaper and it excels over my 3 1/2 HP Boush Router even if I could fit the larger profile cutters on the router.

Jack

 

[ccarrolladams]

When I was a young woodworker there were no hand-held routers, so we had to become 'at one' with shapers, most driven by 3 phase motors over 5hp.

The thing is with shapers the investment in tooling is huge and the time needed to change profiles also is long. Hence today most of the professional shapers, such as my Felder Format 4 tilting arbor one, have spindles able to use robust router bits when needed.

I have a comprehensive collection of shaper knives. In my shop we almost always only use the shaper to raise panels. We have molders to make routine T&G parts. We use router tables with PC7518 because those are powerful enough for most bits used in the cabinet business.

I also have large CNC nested routers. As well as OF1010, MFK700, OF1400 and OF2200. All have their place.

 

[nanook]

Hi, I'd really like to focus this discussion on the OF2200 and its power (horsepower, amps, voltage, wattage, efficacy) vs a traditional induction motor.  

One accessory which is NAINA that I am interested in is the Rebating Head, 50mm diameter, by 30mm high mount for sharper blades?
I'm very aware that the 2200 does not really compete with a cast-iron 220v shaper, but it is portable and about the same price.  

My question really is (and I think only those who have used both are able to fairly comment on this part of the question) - how close does it get?

Hope that someone from Festool can comment on Monday when they are back in the office re: the OF2200 and power stats??

 

[nanook]

ccarrolladams - I was hoping you would comment.

Could you talk a bit about your take on the 2200 vs something like a 2-3hp 110/220v sharper???

I dont think comparing a router to a Felder is a fair comparison!!!!!

 

[MrToolJunkie]

Hi, I'd really like to focus this discussion on the OF2200 and its power (horsepower, amps, voltage, wattage, efficacy) vs a traditional induction motor.  

One accessory which is NAINA that I am interested in is the Rebating Head, 50mm diameter, by 30mm high mount for sharper blades?
I'm very aware that the 2200 does not really compete with a cast-iron 220v shaper, but it is portable and about the same price.  

My question really is (and I think only those who have used both are able to fairly comment on this part of the question) - how close does it get?

Hope that someone from Festool can comment on Monday when they are back in the office re: the OF2200 and power stats??

I am not clear on what you are trying to find out.  The 2200 has plenty of power and is super smooth to use, but it is limited to router bits.  It has plenty of power to swing any router bit made and it is a production router able to withstand daily use.  However, it is not in the same class as a sharper.  Different animals here.  A shaper allows you to add bigger tooling and cut wide profiles in a single pass.  Raised panels become a one cut operation instead of two or the passes with router... Even the of2200.  The induction motor will outlast a universal motor in terms of longevity.  Can you use router bits on a shaper?  Sure with the right spindle and speed setting but most shapers will not spin at anywhere close to what the router is capable of and smaller bits might be an issue with a shaper.  In terms of power and torque, again no contest... Shaper will win that battle every time.

Router wins in the portability category and there are many uses sheer only a router will work.  Again, I think this comes down to what you need to do to determine if one option is better than the other.  I love my OF2200 and it is my favorite Festool out of my collection by far.  But if I needed to do something geared to a shaper, then that is what I would buy.  For most things I think the router and table is probably the more versatile of the two, but shapers have there place when speed and complex profiles come into play.

Scot

 

[Brice Burrell]

Hi, I'd really like to focus this discussion on the OF2200 and its power (horsepower, amps, voltage, wattage, efficacy) vs a traditional induction motor.  

One accessory which is NAINA that I am interested in is the Rebating Head, 50mm diameter, by 30mm high mount for sharper blades?
I'm very aware that the 2200 does not really compete with a cast-iron 220v shaper, but it is portable and about the same price.  

My question really is (and I think only those who have used both are able to fairly comment on this part of the question) - how close does it get?

Hope that someone from Festool can comment on Monday when they are back in the office re: the OF2200 and power stats??

I think you want someone to give you an apples to apples comparison of an apple and an orange.  That isn't going to happen.  The 2200 shouldn't be directly comparing to a shaper.  If you need a shaper then forget the 2200, honestly it really is that simple.  Not that you couldn't find use for both.  But one can not replace the other, assuming you need the portability of a router. 

I don't own a shaper but I have used the 2200 with large bits.  I've made raised panels with one pass, handheld.  There isn't much, if anything, the 2200 can't handle as far as router bits go, as long as they fit it's base.  Still, it is no shaper in terms of large cutters with feeders.           

All the power stats are readily available for the 2200 in the catalog.   

 

[nanook]

Thanks guys - I think what really got me thinking about the comparison was this set:

Festool 50mm rebating cutter head and spindle, 30mm height - sold as an accessory to the CMS

http://www.intelligentworkshop.co.uk/festool-router-bit-rebating-head-489284.html
Or this older one:
http://www.intelligentworkshop.co.uk/festool-rebating-router-bit-434690.html

Made me think that putting these kinds of blades might be an option:

Just trying to get a sense of things re the 2200 and CMS.   I'm not totally sure that I really want/need a full-on sharper for woodworking (cabs, furniture, some custom entry doors, nothing in production volumes however).    What did get me thinking of the comparison was just looking at heavy-duty routers and light sharpers, also the sliding table and rebating heads.  
Just eying things to get a sense of the 2200 and CMS, vs. a Jessem table with a 3hp PC, vs. a 3hp Grizzly sharper.    

I think what I want to say is that with the rebating head (NAINA) and sliding table the CMS was starting to actually look like a 'portable shaper' to me.....    
Its the portable thing that got me though and for my needs I'm in a bit of a grey area (and I dont think I need a production sharper, a 5hp sharper is clearly its own thing) -

I think my question really is:   How close do they come?

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

No way I would think about running that stuff with a router.

If you want to profile larger stock, get a shaper. The 2200 can do work for sure, but I would not be comfortable using anything like that in it.

I won't even run anything through my 5hp shaper with out a stock feeder either.

 

[Nick C]

A 3HP induction motor suitable for stationary WW machines is far more powerful than the OF2200. (Such a motor might weigh as much as five OF2200s.) In my shop, I have measured current draw at 12-15A at 240V.

Many shapers will run spindles of different sizes. Typical sizes are 1/2", 3/4", 1", 1-1/4", 30mm, and may also include special spindles for router bits.

A sliding table on a shaper is very heavy-duty, as are the bearings it slides on, and the miter gage it provides. The CMS slider is MUCH lighter-duty.

A shaper can spin a cutter in either direction, which helps avoid tearout related to grain direction. Shaper cutters can be inverted on the spindle, which can be helpful. (For example, a raised panel cut can be made with the cutter inverted, and the panel "trapped" between the table and the cutter.)

A shaper can be outfitted with shop-built guards and fences, and equipped with a power feeder to make some very scary operations safe and reliable.

And finally, a small shaper is no more expensive than many router table setups. Tooling for shapers tends to be more expensive than router bits, but this depends greatly on the spindle diameter. Shaper cutters often have heads with interchangeable knives--like your picture, which until I saw it, I did not know was even available for routers.

 

[nanook]

Thanks Nick - thats a great post.    
I think its maybe a bit misleading the way 'portable sharper' gets tossed around in regards to the 2200.   What got me thinking about it however was seeing that NAINA accessory Festool makes for the 2200 (or 1400) in the CMS!  

Maybe one of the Festool guys can comment on that accessory?