old carpentry technique used to solve a more modern problem, now with photos

[dirtydeeds]

the problem is a spec house built in about 1904 (spec in this context means speculative), the walls are pissed (in this context "pissed" means out of plumb and out of line)

the walls are lime plastered, which is now totally rotten (nominally 5/8 inch thick) but in some places is under 1/2 inch thick and other parts over 1 - 1/2

the lady of the house, my sister clare, wants the walls filled and skimmed (about 1/8th finish plaster) , for a smooth finish and to stablise the existing plaster

the plasterer wants the new skirting to be installed first (to give him a line to work to), thats my job

the solution is fully framed grounds which is an old carpentry technique used in brick buildings for attaching second fix carpentry items (trim)

the advantage is that the upper and lower runs are held better in line and plumb on brickwork that is so bad

the domino has been in action again

so method

i converted 18mm mdf into 150 mil strips then ran them through the basis router table using the of1400 and a traditional torus skirting cutter

this took under an hour in the workshop

the fully framed grounds made of 25x38 PAR (1inch x 1-1/2inch planed all round) and put together with the domino, no glue

fixed to the brickwork, sds drill, plugged and screwed. the skirting will be started tomorrow

 

[joraft]

... the solution is fully framed grounds which is an old carpentry technique used in brick buildings for attaching second fix carpentry items (trim)

DD:

The photos will probably answer this, but this sounds much like a procedure we call  Furring, a term that I thought originated in the UK.

John

 

[dirtydeeds]

furring strips in england specifically refer to the tapered timber you fix to the top of a flat roof joists to give the fall

(firring is an alternative english spelling, but furring is how it sounds)

the wikipedia thing suggests that they are termed battens in the uk building industry

the answer is yes and no

if you ask for "furring battens" it would be understood as (tapered) furring strips

if you ask for battens you are talking about small section timber of about 25x38 (battens are not tapered)

and yes i know the grounds im framing are made of battening

grounds were used (and occasionally still are)

 

[dirtydeeds]

id understand what you meant, younger carpenters probably wouldnt

it is more often called battening a wall

but im curious, you say they are only 48" long

id buy it in longer lengths and cut to suit

 

[semenza]

Hi,

       Furring strips around me are 5/8" to 3/4" thick x  about 2 1/2" wide and generally 8' or 12' long. Often with rounded edges ???

Seth

 

[dirtydeeds]

nickao

ive miss read the dimensions and descriptions, you are talking about laths for lath and plaster walls

alternative spelling = lathes, but is pronounced laths

ive recently become aware that there were two standard dimensions for laths in england, but cant find the dimensions or the source of the info

the only time lath and plaster walls are used these days are for repairs to Grade 1 listed buildings

grade 1 listed buildings repairs CAN be so exacting that the plaster has to be matched exactly, even the original builders mistakes (and the bodges to get round them) have to be replicated

so it is often the case that plaster sample has to be sent to a laboratory to determine what its make up is, its ususally lime and often includes a binder such as horse hair or wool

lath and plaster is now a specialist trade in england, so repairs to the work are non existant

unless its a patch (so it gets bodged) we rip the entire lot out, then board and skim

 

[dirtydeeds]

a couple of photos showing the problem

then a couple showing the solution

i didnt bother with taking photos of the 6 inch torus skirting

 

[dirtydeeds]

the last photo isnt some strange english corner method  :

its just to show the extent of the external corner problem

 

[Michael Kellough]

the last photo isnt some strange english corner method  :

its just to show the extent of the external corner problem

Thanks for the photos Tom They really help bridge the language barrier 
Also, the use of daylight rather than flash is a huge factor in the legibility of this kind of photo.

So. Now you put bigger boards on top of the little frames or lathe for plaster?

 

[Eli]

This is great DD, thanks. I see a lot of similar here in Aus. So by plugged and screwed you mean you make the hole in the brick, hammer in a wood plug, and then affix the new strips to that plug with screws? Very nice work, looks very clean.

 

[dirtydeeds]

mk

the language barrier (older building methods) is clearly quite wide here  :-[  id better explain

the (original and rotten) plaster is on the wall, and varies between 1/2 inch and just over 1-1/2 inch thick

the bottom last six inches (where the original skirting was AND where the new skirting will be) is and always was bare brickwork

these grounds are there to bring the face of the brickwork forward to the plaster PLUS in this cas an additional 3mm (1/8th) for the new skim coat.

the grounds are therefore doing a number of jobs, giving the plasterer a line to work to (for his new skim coat)

they are "grounds"............ hence the name to which to fix the new skirting to

they also bridge the gaps and holes in the brickwork so fixing is easier

i didnt take any photos of the skirting i installed, in this case it was 150mm mdf with a traditional torus moulding

this is the "right moulding" in the "right part of the house" for the age and quality of the building

i think id better explain that last bit as well

the english were (and still are) obsessed with "keeping up appearances"

in the downstairs reception rooms the skirting in this house are 9inch and have more complicated moulding

in family rooms and upstairs (like this job is) the mouldings are smaller and less detailed

in big houses that had servants (ie before 1850s or so) the mouldings in the servants quarters the skirtings would have been even smaller and have no mouldings at all

i must to work, so i'll answer eli later

 

[dirtydeeds]

plastic plugs eli, not wooden, im not a masochist

BUT all joking aside

the current text books for the "not very qualifieds" show them how to make and install wooden plugs

AND THEN

the same text books tell them how to fit door frames using them 

why the hell they still teach the nvq's this crap ive no idea, even carpentry text books from the second world war talk about wooden plugs in the past tense

 

[Eli]

Yeah, they call the plastic spaghetti here, comes in a coil. I haven't had to do any reno like this yet, but it's down the pike for sure.

 

[dirtydeeds]

"down the pike"

it sort of makes sense............ but not quite enough

can you explain it a bit more

its sounds like its almost easier to do an autralian/american translation before you do the american/english