Old Style Stairs!

[jmbfestool]

Thursdays and Friday been working on these stairs!  Never done any stairs like this before so its all new to me and learning as I am going along lol!   Well I got the company I use to work for to make the stairs for me who told me once they made it that they have never made stairs like that before! Well supposed to of had it read by monday! I didnt get it till thursday!

Any way the van arrived Thursday morning and I helped unload the stairs!  MAN them solid oak treads/raises where heavy! Also very wet! I was think im going to struggle doing these stairs on my own! Good job the client offered a helping lift!

Any way the weight of the stairs was really concerning me and looking at the current landing it was doing poorly and the timbers where running the wrong way!  So I took the landing down and rebuilt it so the timbers where transferring the force of the stairs against the out side wall. Well I was still a bit worried as the out side wall aint that great as it has had long bars put in to keep the wall from bowing out! Well Their aint much I can do to reinforce the landing area as the area around has not be done to properly to give the landing much support doddgy builders!  

Any way I decided the oak beam in the middle of the room will have to give the stairs a bit more support by having a oak beam going underneath into the oak beam and wall, its just a shame the beam is not further across so could support the stairs higher up! I hope that will support the stairs enough! Also hoping the weight of the stairs wont be that heavy once it has dried out!

The Protool chainsaw SWORD has really come in handy for cutting the oak beams as it just cuts through!

These are temp stairs the builder did for them until they got the new stairs.
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[jmbfestool]

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[jmbfestool]

The hand rail I had to do a lot of adjusting as the shoulders where not right!  [sad] The tread/raisers came very long so had to remove 300m before I could just scribe them to the wall.   The newel post I used two 300mm 20mm dowels and drilled and glued them into the floor for the newel post to slot over hopefully reenforcing the newel post as I HATE wobbling posts!

Gotta chisel the spindles into the treads. The method of fixing the tread/raisers I have not seen before the client just showed me a picture and im just fallowing what he says basically.  I only drilled 3 holes with long breaks in-between them but it still burnt out my Milwaukee M18 I thought it had protection but it just stopped then all this smoke starting coming out and bits of metal  [crying].     I just used my Festool for one hole as the newel post was kinda in the way and the Festool T15 just did it dead easy! So dont know why the Milwaukee was struggling so much Crap thing!

I used my hammer drill in drill mode to do the rest! I got more photos to take buts its still an ongoing job! The client is a bit of a photographer geek so when its done he will take proper pictures so he says for me when im finished and hes stained the stairs an n everything.

The hardest thing with the stairs was I had nothing to measure from as nothing is square or level or parallel.  You might be able to see in the picture how the wall is leaning out MILES at the top so the stairs get wider the further up.   I finally got the stairs right but at the bottom it looked like the stairs where out of square to the tiles. So it was either it looked bad with the tiles or I moved the far carriage back and make it look right with the tiles but the treads wont be dead on square with the carriages.  He decided on the looking right with the tiles.  So the ends of the treads raisers are slightly out with the carriage like they are flush at the bottom then stick out 1 -1.5 mm at the top he says its just character!  I could recut them but would take ages!  I might use my rotex and sand them abit flusher as im not happy with them like that lol!

JMB

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[LostInTheWood]

I love projects like that. Nothing lines up, need some extra something and have to figure it all out.  Nice job.  Never seen stairs like that either, but I bet that will look pretty awesome after its stained up.  I'm surprised to see only two stringers.  What are the dimensions for those?  It looks like they may have some flex once all the weight (treads) is on.   

 

[Ken Nagrod]

JMB,

I'm surprised you're allowed to have the door open on the stairs towards the bottom without putting a landing there.

If you have a concern for the carriage connection, why not use steel to tie the stair to a strong part of the house at the top and hide any steel structure with matching wood.  You might need to have a weldor do the fabricating and install, unless you're capable and you better be sure of it.

 

[norwegian wood]

maybe they like running into swinging doors = )

 

[awdriven]

Nice, substantial pieces of oak there! Thanks for posting. More details as the build progresses, please!

Instead of pressure treated pine, I built my children's swingset border out of white oak 6x6s. They were very wet when delivered and each had to weigh a couple hundred pounds. That protool sounds like it would have been useful for that project.

 

[LostInTheWood]

JMB,

I'm surprised you're allowed to have the door open on the stairs towards the bottom without putting a landing there.

OMG! yeah you're right.    Not only that but that door will only open so far until it hits the stairs.  Maybe it's just a "peek-a-boo" door. 

 

[Ken Nagrod]

I don't know about the UK but here code would fail it even if it resembled a door on a staircase.  I have plenty of experience with old houses having crazy safety hazards like that (that's not the worst I've seen) and it's always had me wondering what they were thinking back then.  It gets really hairy when houses have been "split in half" with a wall down the center of the house and new staircases tucked into undersized areas.  It's like climbing a mountain while balancing on tiny winders, sometimes hopping (or tripping) to transition to another room or hall off the stair.  Can't tell you how many times I've slid down on my butt or tumbled till the wall at the bottom stopped me.  [big grin]  Really, what were these carpenters thinking!

 

[GhostFist]

Ha! i'm in a house like that right now!

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Stay on the first floor!  ;D

 

[Corwin]

Stay on the first floor!  ;D

Yeah, and also stay out from under the second.  [scared]

 

[Nigel]

    Never seen stairs like that before.The weight! [crying].It's nice when nothing's square or level isn't it?

 

[jmbfestool]

Just to let every body know that the small brown door wont open at all I have removed the bottom hinge so I didn't need to scribe my tread/riser around it plus when He needs to remove the door in the future it will be far easier because other whise the stairs would of trapped the hinge and making it difficult to remove the door. In the picture you can see a section bricked up that's what he's going to have done where the door is so the door is only temp until he convinces his wife.  He wanted it removing now and pricked up but his wife said no leave it!

Jmb

 

[jmbfestool]

JMB,

I'm surprised you're allowed to have the door open on the stairs towards the bottom without putting a landing there.

If you have a concern for the carriage connection, why not use steel to tie the stair to a strong part of the house at the top and hide any steel structure with matching wood.  You might need to have a weldor do the fabricating and install, unless you're capable and you better be sure of it.

I would but I have no where to fix the steel to!  The top half of the house has been redone and has plenty opportunity for the builder to do something but he has not thought about it for the stairs landing so where ever I try and reenforce it all goes back to the same place. I told him he should of had a support newel running down to the floor but he does not want that.

My problem is the builder made the landing out of 4x2 which is crap!  He used joist hangers  but because of head room he lowered the landing but he did it by lowering the joist hangers and that's why he used thinner timbers to try and not loose to much ceiling height down stairs also. Crap lowering on hangers as they can just be pushed side ways either needed noggings or take them out which wa I did and turn them so they push against the wall plus so they run the right way for flooring.

I cant explain it really but it ain't been done properly!  The only thing I could think of is I would need a 5meter steel to go in front of the stairs on the wall across to the other side of the wall under the ceiling that wont look good a lot of work and cost or support from the floor but he don't want that.  So I'm hoping my support lower down in-between the oak vertical beam and the wall will hold!

Jmb

 

[jmbfestool]

     Never seen stairs like that before.The weight! [crying].It's nice when nothing's square or level isn't it?

No I hate it lol it's all cut try it see if it looks fits try it again!  I got the newel post bang on blum n everything to find the tread is out  level so I moved the stairs to split it to find the next tread is out of level the other way so moved the stairs back and every tread is slightly different not bang on!  Then I fitted not fixed though the first 3 treads tight against each other to find that the guy who built them left 1.5 mm between each one cus decided just to check where the last tread would come and it was 12mm short so I had to leave a small gap under each one I dont know why he did that they will shrink any way!

 

[Ken Nagrod]

    Never seen stairs like that before.The weight! [crying].It's nice when nothing's square or level isn't it?

No I hate it lol it's all cut try it see if it looks fits try it again!  I got the newel post bang on blum n everything to find the tread is out  level so I moved the stairs to split it to find the next tread is out of level the other way so moved the stairs back and every tread is slightly different not bang on!  Then I fitted not fixed though the first 3 treads tight against each other to find that the guy who built them left 1.5 mm between each one cus decided just to check where the last tread would come and it was 12mm short so I had to leave a small gap under each one I dont know why he did that they will shrink any way!

I guess as long as he has a few drinks in him, the stairs will seem perfect going up them with a drunken wobble.  [big grin]  ...and if they don't hold, he can go weeeeeee on the way down.  Seriously, I think as a backup, you should provide a rope fixed to an eye bolt in the ceiling and make them use a harness with it each time they need to use the stair.  I'd suggest a vine, but he's not Tarzan.  [huh]
[poke]

 

[jmbfestool]

     Never seen stairs like that before.The weight! [crying].It's nice when nothing's square or level isn't it?

No I hate it lol it's all cut try it see if it looks fits try it again!   I got the newel post bang on blum n everything to find the tread is out  level so I moved the stairs to split it to find the next tread is out of level the other way so moved the stairs back and every tread is slightly different not bang on!  Then I fitted not fixed though the first 3 treads tight against each other to find that the guy who built them left 1.5 mm between each one cus decided just to check where the last tread would come and it was 12mm short so I had to leave a small gap under each one I dont know why he did that they will shrink any way!

I guess as long as he has a few drinks in him, the stairs will seem perfect going up them with a drunken wobble.  [big grin]  ...and if they don't hold, he can go weeeeeee on the way down.  Seriously, I think as a backup, you should provide a rope fixed to an eye bolt in the ceiling and make them use a harness with it each time they need to use the stair.  I'd suggest a vine, but he's not Tarzan.  [huh]
[poke]

Just had n Idea 2 day! Maybe this might be the best way to support the stairs higher up!    The lower support beam is what I had already planned on doing! but the higher support is what I have just come up with!  I could bolt through the floor joist to catch the support beam which will me supported in the wall the other side. 

The picture below the transparent is the large OAK beam you can see in the pictures Above which is what ill be working on monday putting the support beam in before I fit the rest of the tread/risers adding more weight. This support beam was not supplied and was not in the drawing when it was delivered its what I have insisted needed doing before I carried on fitting the stairs but because I didnt have the beam at the time I didnt want to wait I carried on working but now the beam has been delivered ill be fitting that monday!  But now I might have to get another one if I think my second Idea will go a head or not.    Like mentoined above them carriages look a little on the thin side and could sag! Which could cause problems with the spindles becoming to short over time!

 

[jmbfestool]

stairs sketch idea!  (sorry thought I had posted it!)

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[speed]

nice work so far jmb, how did you get the job?