fshanno said:
harry_ said:
Hi Frank,
Although I have never built a kitchen on site. I have done several good sized built-ins. I have also built a `back bar` with counter, shelves and cabinets. I have chose to both make & not make the doors.
I have found that I can get doors made at a price that justifies me not making them. For the bar, I made the doors, due to some some custom details that were needed.
I live out in the sticks. My average job is ~2 hours away from me. As such one of the first things I take into consideration is my "commute" time. When I convert my gas into time, I sit behind a windshield at a cost of $10/hour. Saving 2 trips to a job site, gives me back a full day. Therefore I try to do as much work in my own shop as I possibly can. I blank out my sheet goods, do all possible glue ups, sanding, and finishing.
There is not just the commute to think about in this process, I would be the same way if the job was just down the street. In my own shop I have much more control,....... over everything, especially interruptions! There are no plumbers greasy paws checking out how smooth my sanding is or checking to see if my urethane is dry yet (yes, it HAS happened) No customer with their 1000 niggling questions. I can actually get some work done!
If I am acting as the general contractor on the job I don't as much care, because I am already there and generally set up. (The plumber will still piss me off though).
Having done as much as I can in my own shop, lets me get in and out of the customers hours in a much shorter period of time. Momma likes the in & out [wink]. I just show up with my carcasse parts, and from there it is 95% assembly.
"Because you can, doesn't mean you should". My goal here is not to talk you out of doing a kitchen 'on-site'. Just keep in mind that it is not an all-or-nothing, here or there proposition.
Thanks Harry,
That's just the kind of sensible input I'm looking for. I can get all enthused about stuff and sort of spin off into never land. So to sum it up....
1. I've got to have very good control over the work area or there will be big problems. Maybe I could partition an area using some kind of portable barrier? It's got to addressed somehow. Safety could be a concern as well.
2. Travel expense could end up making the process unprofitable so I've got to get a good handle on that. I've got to manage the to-and-from's or it will quickly get out of hand. The customers home is 6 miles away.
One thing is of great interest to me. Do you do frameless cabinets? If so how do you do your system holes and edge banding in the shop vs. in the field?
Festool USA is promoting this idea as well they should. Maybe this job is out there on the fringe of feasibility but it's what I've got. I figure that a good solid realistic discussion here on the FOG is a good thing.
Thanx again.
Frank,
There is nothing that I do at home that is
ANY different that what/how I work in the field, with 3 exceptions:
1). the radio is MUCH louder
2). I have a larger work bench (in addition to my MFT/3)
3). I can use significantly more colorful language when I make a mistake
Travel expense? Please tell me there was a typo and you meant 60 miles! What travel expense can you possibly have on a 6 mile commute, be serious. "Cry me a river. build me a bridge. Then get over it". Did you read the part where I said
2 hour drive time?! 6 miles is
nothing. I have to drive further than that just to get my first cup of coffee! [If there was in fact a typo, please forgive]
Usually my cabinet boxes are frame-less, with real wood banding. This is a place where you have to think things out beforehand, or as Brice said,...
You'd lose your shirt trying that on cabinets.
. Generally I do not pay much mind to the thickness of the banding. I use whatever I have lying about that will suit.
One of the things that I do here is:
I run a piece of blue painter's (firmly applied) tape down the length of my rip (both sides)
before I make the cut. Yes this is a bit time consuming, but it has it's benefits later on. I just use 1" tape and my goal is to cut very little of it, but I do not make an issue out if it either.
Then I do my biscuit work (sorry guys no domino yet) and glue it up, making sure I leave it proud on both sides of my panel. For shop space reasons, I cast the clamp work off to the side, making sure that my glue line is
vertical. This way the squeeze-out runs down the the tape instead of across it and down the panel.
Soon as I run out of clamps, I move on to some other task. After a period of time I reclaim the clamps, pull the tape, and do it all again. Usually the squeeze out is still pretty soft. Even if the glue is 2 days hard, I can still get 99% of the tape off.
Once I get
all of my glue ups done then it is router time! I do not worry about tape that did not come off. Using
this method (but with a OF1400, I flush off my edging. This cleans off the glue, and any remaining tape as well.
I realize that applying tape may seem like a time consuming PITA, but I have found that it is faster and easier than scraping glue. I HATE scraping glue!
My base cabinets are generally not adjustable, unless requested. they are just a 1/2 depth shelf centered in the available space (cabinet may or may not have a drawer) and dadoed into place.
Upper boxes are now line bored with the LR32. You don't even want to know the hoops I had to jump through before I got the LR32. Unless you are planning on being a full on cabinet
shop, I would not even consider a line boring machine.
Personally, I would not even consider bare edged plywood unless a customer
specifically asked for it. That is a look that many will not like, myself included.
Your job is close to home, so it is a coin toss as to where you should do it. You have not mentioned how you are finishing the cabinets. or if you are using pre-finished materials. I would say do it all on site if you are going pre-finished. However, if you are making the doors and having to do the finish yourself then I would try to do it all at home/shop. This way you could take a few days to get all your prep done and set it aside off-site. Then when you are ready, just shuttle the materials to the job. From there it will be mostly assembly work. Damage in during transport are really a non issue as prevention is too easy to avoid.
To give an example, I built this off site. Loaded it up with all my tools and hauled it 2 hours to install it.
This is the glue up of the bar-top, in progress.[attachthumb=#]
This is the job installed.[attachthumb=#]
Larger (section) shots:
