One battery system

[ChuckM]

From a woodworking magazine:

"Fein has joined the AMPShare alliance powered by Bosch Battery Systems. AMPShare makes more than 300 tools from more than two dozen manufacturers compatible with Bosch’s powerful and reliable 18V batteries and chargers. Multi-brand compatibility allows woodworkers, DIY-ers, and industry professionals to purchase new tools from a variety of brands without buying new batteries or chargers."
https://www.ampshare.com/

Such a good idea, just like EU mandating USB-C ports.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Metabo runs a similar alliance with Mafell being the most notable member.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I don't see anything like this happening in the US. These manufacturers enjoy the proprietary nature of the battery fitment, even though they are all using the same 18650 cells inside of them. They want us on their "platform" and depend on us staying with just one. The cost and inconvenience of multiple chargers/batteries usually outweighs the other options, so we do stay.
They draw us in with a particular feature or tool and then sell the compatible bare-tools to keep it that way.
Seems like the profit is in the battery? Many times (in the US) the cost of 2 batteries will be greater than a new drill with those batteries and a charger. How do they do this? More importantly, why do we, as consumers, put up with it?

 

[jeh]

They are possibly late to the game. The Cordless Alliance System has a similar plan. this platform is based on Metabo but not the batteries sold in US. Programs like this breed mediocrity, but are convenient. I’ll keep buying best and not worrying about the battery system.

 

[Mini Me]

They are possibly late to the game. The Cordless Alliance System has a similar plan. this platform is based on Metabo but not the batteries sold in US. Programs like this breed mediocrity, but are convenient. I’ll keep buying best and not worrying about the battery system.

I don't understand your reaction, could you please explain why it leads to mediocrity? Mafell seems to be one of the best and they obviously seem impressed with the idea.

 

[Ron B]

It seems like there should be a market to make an adapter to allow one platform of batteries to fit another platform of tools.  i.e. to allow an Makita battery to fit a Milwaukee drill.  However, the market for allowing Festool tools to accept other batteries would be small.

 

[mino]

I don't see anything like this happening in the US. These manufacturers enjoy the proprietary nature of the battery fitment, even though they are all using the same 18650 cells inside of them. They want us on their "platform" and depend on us staying with just one. The cost and inconvenience of multiple chargers/batteries usually outweighs the other options, so we do stay.
...

...
Programs like this breed mediocrity, but are convenient.
...

I think you both miss the point (aka the business model) here.

Both the "shared platforms" have a big/small dynamic inherent in them:

1) A "big" brand gets to broaden the rainge of tools available by incorporating niche/specialist tools from smaller high end makers. This increases attractiveness of that platform by pulling in "killer" tools which then generate additional sales of "generic/mainstream" stuff from the big brand.

2) The "small" makers get to avoid the "steep mountain" of convincing the prospective customer to add another platform to access a tool of theirs that is maybe marginally better than a "mainstream" platform tool. For these it is often an existential threat. Bet they are willing to compromise a lot.

Why this now ?
With all tools corded, there was no "artificial" battery platform tax disadvantaging the smaller/specialist makers. Today, with most tools moving to a cordless-first sales model ...

Why in Europe (Germany, actually) and not in the US ?

Simple.
The US tool makers are consolidated to such a degree there are effectively no small/specialist makers left. Heck, there are almost no (real) makers left as far as I can gather.

No "small guys" around, no big/small business model ...

 

[AstroKeith]

I've had a number of different branded battery powered tools. About 50% of my Bosch 18V batteries have gone faulty. None of my Festool ones have, despite some severe use.

 

[thudchkr]

I've had a number of different branded battery powered tools. About 50% of my Bosch 18V batteries have gone faulty. None of my Festool ones have, despite some severe use.

Lol. I don’t have any Bosch so I can t speak about them, but I have tools and batts from the CAS system, (Mafell & Metabo batts), as well as Makita, Milwaukee, and some older Dewalt. The only batteries I’ve had go bad have been from Festool. Two of the 18V and one from the CSX.

 

[pixelated]

I just resigned myself to having whatever batteries were needed to support the tool choices. So, that’s currently 5 battery systems, including 2 Festool.
Interchangeability would be lovely but I’m not going to hold my breath for that to get introduced in the US anytime soon. Too much money to be made with proprietary systems.

 

[rst]

I'm with Pixelated, have multiple platforms, Milwaukee 12 & 18v mostly, Fein, Metabo, Metabo HPT, all three Festool, two Flex as their car detailing platforms are different from the construction.

 

[Michael Kellough]

A little off topic but I’m wondering if others are having problems recharging Milwaukee M12 6 amp batteries.

They won’t charge in the fast charger, generating the dreaded green/red flash.

I discovered that some of them do charge in the older combo M12/18 chargers and M12 chargers but some of will only recharge partially.

I discovered that sometimes I can use a partially charged battery a little and then get it to charge more but at least one of my M12 6amp batteries will only charge up to two dots worth.

Any other observations or suggestions?

 

[mino]

That looks like unbalanced cells in them or some cells dying. Means the bats are dead for the practical purposes.

The newer chargers likely have better electornics so notice the problem. The older/simpler ones are unaware and try charging only to fail eventually.

Unless you feel like re-celling the packs, consider them dead. Before they make up for a fire event ...

 

[rvieceli]

Similar problems. Service center not too far away but I need to get there and have them check them out.

Ron

 

[thudchkr]

A little off topic but I’m wondering if others are having problems recharging Milwaukee M12 6 amp batteries.
‘
They won’t charge in the fast charger, generating the dreaded green/red flash.

I discovered that some of them do charge in the older combo M12/18 chargers and M12 chargers but some of will only recharge partially.

I discovered that sometimes I can use a partially charged battery a little and then get it to charge more but at least one of my M12 6amp batteries will only charge up to two dots worth.

Any other observations or suggestions?

I’ve been using the 6AH M12 batteries for years and have yet to experience any issues with them other than broken locking clips occurring from dropped tools. I charge them in the M12/M18 6 bay rapid charger the majority of the time, but also use the M12/M18 single bay rapid charger as well as the M12/M18 standard charger.

 

[WillAdams]

It seems like there should be a market to make an adapter to allow one platform of batteries to fit another platform of tools.  i.e. to allow an Makita battery to fit a Milwaukee drill.  However, the market for allowing Festool tools to accept other batteries would be small.

Here:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/175696685302?hash=item28e856a8f6

(no affiliation, never tried it, YMMV)

I'm quite pleased to hear that the Mafell batteries are part of a standard system --- is one of those a decent sander?

I'd really like to find a battery-powered sander which generates its own vacuum/has its own filter bag.

 

[live4ever]

Yes, I have the green red problem with two of my M12 batteries (both 6Ah).  Two of my M18 12Ah batteries have also gone bad, one being replaced under warranty.  For the record, Milwaukee now has a service where you can ship your tools to them (prepaid by them) if you can’t get to a nearby service center.

 

[Cheese]

I'd really like to find a battery-powered sander which generates its own vacuum/has its own filter bag.

The Festool ETSC/DTSC/RTSC sanders all fit that description.

 

[rst]

I have a Large collection of 12 and 18v Milwaukee batteries and multiple chargers.  When I get the dreaded flashes, I switch chargers and usually the battery charges just fine.  I recently bought two 12v 6 amp in a pack, one will not charge, still haven't figured what to do with it, it actually sits on my desk right here.

 

[WillAdams]

The Festool ETSC/DTSC/RTSC sanders all fit that description.

Yes, thank you.

But considering this in the context of this discussion and my mentioning getting a Mafell battery-powered drill, the complete question becomes:

"Is there a battery-powered sander which generates its own vacuum/has its own filter bag in the tools which are powered by the compatible batteries EDIT: of the same sort (which is not the AMPShare alliance)?"