One battery system

[Michael Kellough]

The Festool ETSC/DTSC/RTSC sanders all fit that description.

Yes, thank you.
this Metabo 5” sander at Beaver.
But considering this in the context of this discussion and my mentioning getting a Mafell battery-powered drill, the complete question becomes:

"Is there a battery-powered sander which generates its own vacuum/has its own filter bag in the tools which are powered by the compatible batteries of the AMPShare alliance?"

[member=67313]WillAdams[/member]  There is this 5” Metabo sander at Beaver. There is also a 6” version.

 

[Michael Kellough]

I have a Large collection of 12 and 18v Milwaukee batteries and multiple chargers.  When I get the dreaded flashes, I switch chargers and usually the battery charges just fine.  I recently bought two 12v 6 amp in a pack, one will not charge, still haven't figured what to do with it, it actually sits on my desk right here.

I have several of the 6amp batteries. I was able to successfully charge each of them a few times on the M12/18 Rapid Charger but then they started with the red/green flashing. Before I realized they (some) could be charged with the older chargers I bought another pair of 6amp from HD in order to get a fresher purchase date to facilitate returning the bad ones. As it stands only one is completely bad, even though none of them perform as they should.

Also have several 4amp batteries and a bunch of the 2amp and smaller. Never a problem with any of them.

 

[live4ever]

I have a Large collection of 12 and 18v Milwaukee batteries and multiple chargers.  When I get the dreaded flashes, I switch chargers and usually the battery charges just fine.  I recently bought two 12v 6 amp in a pack, one will not charge, still haven't figured what to do with it, it actually sits on my desk right here.

I have several of the 6amp batteries. I was able to successfully charge each of them a few times on the M12/18 Rapid Charger but then they started with the red/green flashing. Before I realized they (some) could be charged with the older chargers I bought another pair of 6amp from HD in order to get a fresher purchase date to facilitate returning the bad ones. As it stands only one is completely bad, even though none of them perform as they should.

Also have several 4amp batteries and a bunch of the 2amp and smaller. Never a problem with any of them.

Same experience, though anecdotal…it’s the high Ah batts that have had problems for me…6Ah in the M12 and 12Ah in M18.  The lower capacity ones have been totally fine.

 

[rst]

While I have a deader, I have not had any issues with the others.  Mostly use with rotary tool, grinders, recip, rght angle 3/8 socket, rivet gun and band sander

 

[Fourmi]

The Festool ETSC/DTSC/RTSC sanders all fit that description.

Yes, thank you.

But considering this in the context of this discussion and my mentioning getting a Mafell battery-powered drill, the complete question becomes:

"Is there a battery-powered sander which generates its own vacuum/has its own filter bag in the tools which are powered by the compatible batteries of the AMPShare alliance?"

Mafell is on the Metabo CAS and not on Bosch AMPshare. I tried the Metabo 18v 125mm sander when the Metabo rep came around - it's a good sander. The CAS is worth getting into for Mafell - but I have a lot of CAS tools (Mafell, Metabo, Rothenberger, Collomix, Steinel, etc)

 

[Cheese]

I just purchased a Milwaukee M18 XC 6.0 battery this weekend. Took it downstairs and put it on the charger, after about 2 hours I decided to check on it and it was blinking green/red. I removed it from the charger, waited about 2-3 minutes and replaced it on the charger, 2 hours later it went full green. Who Knows...WTF?

It'll be used in their 2 gallon air compressor, wish me luck.  [smile]

 

[live4ever]

I just purchased a Milwaukee M18 XC 6.0 battery this weekend. Took it downstairs and put it on the charger, after about 2 hours I decided to check on it and it was blinking green/red. I removed it from the charger, waited about 2-3 minutes and replaced it on the charger, 2 hours later it went full green. Who Knows...WTF?

It'll be used in their 2 gallon air compressor, wish me luck.  [smile]

Sometimes they do that randomly.  Could be a harbinger of bad things to come or just happenstance.  You’ll know it’s the former when it starts happening with some consistency.  I know, thanks Capt Obvious.

 

[LazyGretlWoodWorks]

I don't see anything like this happening in the US. These manufacturers enjoy the proprietary nature of the battery fitment, even though they are all using the same 18650 cells inside of them.

Agreed, and it's annoying. I'm currently trying - TRYING - to pare down my battery stuff. I have Kobalt and Makita, primarily. Also have some Craftsman and some Ryobi and I retired some mix of old Ryobi (NiCad) and some Harbor freight stuff.

Makita just kind of pisses me off, despite being an excellent battery charging system; their tools are oddly priced. I hesitate to say expensive because quality costs and all that, but come on... almost $200 for a freaking "multi tool, tool only"...? That's just asinine. So far they haven't outlasted or out performed anything else I have that runs on batteries.

I actually love, love, love my Kobalt driver - it's brushless, the slow speed is actually properly slow and very controllable and still maintains a lot of torque, it's light, and it's big enough that my stupid catcher's mitt style hands can hold the thing comfortably.

Makita makes like 93 different drivers ranging from bushed-motor, basic thing for more $ than the Kobalt, to full brushless, adjustable speed (that is still too fast on slow speed, IMO), fancy stuff, blah blah blah, for like 3x the $ of the Kobalt one.

I use them both equally enough, and I can't find any real quality or functional difference between them that justifies the asinine price, ~ 2 years in to both of them.

The Ryobi and Craftsman that I replaced with these are still working fine, too, and deliver exact same results. 

The Kobalt stuff was a gift from my wife and I went hard on buying batteries after getting the tools she got me and discovering how well they work.

 

[LazyGretlWoodWorks]

I just resigned myself to having whatever batteries were needed to support the tool choices. So, that’s currently 5 battery systems, including 2 Festool.
Interchangeability would be lovely but I’m not going to hold my breath for that to get introduced in the US anytime soon. Too much money to be made with proprietary systems.

** ding ** Nailed it.

 

[jaguar36]

A little off topic but I’m wondering if others are having problems recharging Milwaukee M12 6 amp batteries.

I have a couple of them and no issues, although the normal charger I use isn't a 'Rapid' one.

I've got 6 different battery systems.  Its irritating, but I have mostly enough batteries that I don't usually have any issues finding a charged one of the right type.  I'll wear them all out eventually as well so its not like I'm buying any extra.

I do have some adapters, Dewalt->Milwaukee, Milwaukee-> Dewalt, but they don't work.

 

[xedos]

Programs like this breed mediocrity, but are convenient. I’ll keep buying best and not worrying about the battery system.

I disagree.

I think it allows smaller players to leverage an established power source platform, thus, allowing them to concentrate on innovation of the tools themselves without spending more limited capital on developing a battery platform too.

Take a look at festool for example.  They've kept everything in house and their battery platform is ok ish (performs middle of the pack in most tests) and their offerings are really limited.  Also as a result of keeping it all in house, they were very late to the LiIon party and their 12v tool line is practically stillborn.

Now , I suppose we can debate what exactly constitutes mediocrity forma tool co. , but that's prob. another thread all together. 

 

[jeh]

Take a look at festool for example.  They've kept everything in house and their battery platform is ok ish (performs middle of the pack in most tests) and their offerings are really limited.  Also as a result of keeping it all in house, they were very late to the LiIon party and their 12v tool line is practically stillborn.

Now , I suppose we can debate what exactly constitutes mediocrity forma tool co. , but that's prob. another thread all together.

I never had any issues with run-time on their pre-LiIon batteries or their 12V line. For my applications they work. I still use one of their early 12V drills, the C12, and the later CXS model from 2011. I've replaced the C12 batteries a few times and they are due for another replacement, but am still on the original CXS batteries. I live the C12 for cabinet installs and it is my goto. I have a few of the 18V drills and am happy with them as well. I have recent model Milwaukee 12V and 18V drills along with an assortment of 18V tools and their batteries leave a lot to be desired. I'll take the older Festool batteries over the new Milwaukee ones any day.

 

[jeh]

I do have some adapters, Dewalt->Milwaukee, Milwaukee-> Dewalt, but they don't work.

I would say adapters like these are a bad idea given the batteries and tools are a set with the tool knowing what to expect out of the battery and the battery probably supplying some data back to the tool. I've never tried them, so I do not know that, but I can assume they are not like switching from a AAA Duracell to Energizer.

 

[LazyGretlWoodWorks]

These companies - especially in the US market place - will **never** consolidate to a single shared battery system until there's a real, material financial net positive-to-them reason to do so. Like... someone like Tesla - BUT DEFINITELY NOT TESLA UNDER THE CURRENT REGIME - comes to market and says "you can license this amazing new battery that gets 3x your current battery life at .75% of the costs of your current battery for $.02 every ten years."

And even then, it'd be a hard sell because matching batteries and devices - thus creating lock in to a limited modularity model - is the ONLY thing that separates all these mediocre-to-good tools from one another. My Harbor Freight, Ryobi, Makita, DeWalt, Craftsman, and Kobalt cordless tools all perform equally and have all, so far, lasted their various tests of time (between 2 and ~12 years so far, and some of my Ryobi and DeWalt stuff is much older than that).

No one is standing out in any objective, analytical way, in this market space. Not even Festool. So it comes down, largely, to personal choice and how much lock-in you care about. ** shrug **

 

[olchunkofcoal]

These companies - especially in the US market place - will **never** consolidate to a single shared battery system until there's a real, material financial net positive-to-them reason to do so. Like... someone like Tesla - BUT DEFINITELY NOT TESLA UNDER THE CURRENT REGIME - comes to market and says "you can license this amazing new battery that gets 3x your current battery life at .75% of the costs of your current battery for $.02 every ten years."

And even then, it'd be a hard sell because matching batteries and devices - thus creating lock in to a limited modularity model - is the ONLY thing that separates all these mediocre-to-good tools from one another. My Harbor Freight, Ryobi, Makita, DeWalt, Craftsman, and Kobalt cordless tools all perform equally and have all, so far, lasted their various tests of time (between 2 and ~12 years so far, and some of my Ryobi and DeWalt stuff is much older than that).

No one is standing out in any objective, analytical way, in this market space. Not even Festool. So it comes down, largely, to personal choice and how much lock-in you care about. ** shrug **

I agree, although it's funny that most of these brands are owned by the same few conglomerates so competition isn't just between manufactures but between hobbyist and "prosumer" lines of the same manufacturer. TTI makes what is essentially the same tool (say a cordless framing nailer) and releases two versions under the Milwaukee and Ridgid banners. Likewise Stanley Black and Decker have released what are the same or very similar nailers under the Dewalt, Bostitch, and Craftsman names. Although the battery technology is the same, manufactures do not make the batteries compatible across brands. I suppose this is the case so manufacturers can exclusively sell brands to one retailer or another without losing access to competitors, ex. Craftsman is exclusive to Lowes/Rona but Dewalt can still be purchased at Home Depot. It all seems quite wasteful.

In any case, I wish these two initiatives success. An issue I foresee is getting trapped into the current form factor of batteries. I think the Bosch and Milwaukee 12v lines are appealing for how small and light the tools are and one area where corded still often beats cordless is ergonomics. For manufacturers geared toward professional users, it would be interesting to see tools grouped according to use and batteries integrated into the tools to match. A brick of a battery might be insignificant on a rotary hammer, but is unsuited for a trim router, small driver, or finish nailer.

 

[LazyGretlWoodWorks]

For manufacturers geared toward professional users, it would be interesting to see tools grouped according to use and batteries integrated into the tools to match. A brick of a battery might be insignificant on a rotary hammer, but is unsuited for a trim router, small driver, or finish nailer.

Oddly enough, Harbor Freight is packaging and marketing their battery-powered platforms exactly like that and, to the best of my knowledge, are the only ones doing so.

 

[tzed250]

You can buy adapters that allow batteries and tools to be mixed, but only at the same voltage obviously.
They even have ones that allow the use of Makita batteries on Festool, which means you could buy a bare cordless tablesaw and power it with two 5Ah Makita batteries you already own... for instance.

They're not approved or anything but reviews say they work; they're just some plastic and metal and wire, so there isn't much to go wrong.

 

[cpw]

I have mostly Festool and Dewalt 20/60V batteries.  I've had 2 Festool batteries fail on the charger, both under warranty.  I bought an outlet timer so they don't stay charging long-term which seems to have fixed that issue (I have one of each charger type mounted to the wall, with a battery in it).

I also have a Bosch 12V driver and CXS, as my odd-man outs.

My Graco spray gun actually uses Dewalt 20V batteries, which is nice that it doesn't add another platform.