Oversized 4' x 8' MFT table, starting my woodworking journey

[georgeaye]

Hey folks,

First-time poster here. I am starting a new journey into woodworking and hoping to create an integrated set of cabinets and shelves in our living room. But, knowing how ambitious and highly visible this item will be in my house, I plan to take the next 6- 12 months to learn, screw up, learn, screw up, etc, on a half dozen smaller projects where the stakes are not so high. So, the first project on deck is a pair of big shoe bins on drawer slides for my kids' shoes in the mudroom.

Using the 'buy once/cry one' philosophy, I went to my local Woodcraft and got myself a handful of Festool items (TS 55 tracksaw, ES EC 150/3 sander, EC 36 dust extractor) and an MFT/3 kit.

Over the last few days, I've been getting familiar with all the gear, but I've been disappointed by how inconsistent and non-square the flip-up MFT rails fit onto the table. And when I tried to bring in a 4' x 8' sheet material, it was awkward to cut down. I was cutting down some light 1/2" foam insulation in this case, so I can only assume it'll be harder with MDF, plywood, etc.

Rather than upgrading the MFT with an MFT Aligned Guide Rail Support Upgrade Kit by TSO comes to mind, I am planning on returning the MFT/3, and now considering making my own oversized MFT using the Parf guide system from UJK.

Some questions:

• Has anyone made a 4' x 8' MFT?
• Does it make sense to make such a large MFT? Is it just too unwieldy to have such a big ass table in your workshop?
• Does anyone have experience using sawhorses as legs to hold up their MFT? I'm working in my garage and have plenty of room for it, but I need to be able to put the table away when I park my minivan.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Cheers

 

[Vondawg]

In the space you’re talking about and wanting to put it all away, you’re probably looking at a good set of adjustable saw horses and a assembly top and the Parf guide is the way to go. I’d then go to TSO for ‘GRS 16’ type squares for your track and their parallel guide system.if you’re returning the MFT kit there will be plenty of $$ for what you need. The TSO system is very hard to beat in your goals/ space you describe - you’re sure to get a few responses here.
Good luck and have a great time building
PS don’t drill too many holes you can always add more

 

[Packard]

A 4’ x 8’ table is going to be problematic.  You won’t be able to reach all the holes from one side.  Twin 30” wide tables that could be joined if needed, might be more useful.

If it is placed up against a wall, definitely an issue.

I have my table against a wall with pegboard behind it. If you go to 4’ width, you will be foregoing any behind the table storage.

My guess is that Festool looked at a variety of sizes and concluded that the one size that they produce is optimum.  I sized my tables to resemble Festools sizes.  One serves primary duty as an outfeed table for my table saw, but is also used for smaller glue-ups.

Good luck.

I have three tables on casters that can be rolled into any configuration I need, but note that the table to table holes are never in perfect registration.

 

[Grev]

If you want to use sawhorses as a base, check out TRACKTUBES (tracktubes.com). They were designed to be used with sawhorses as an MFT support system.

 

[Vtshopdog]

What Vondawg and Packard said.  There are a lot of ways to work with a track saw.

My random 2 cents:

If 4x8 sheets are priority then some combination of parallel guides and squares will get things done nicely.  you don't necessarily need to do these cuts on an MFT type top, sawhorse and blue foam under stock work great with foam board helping dust collection.

Parf system is great and you can get creative.

A big old 4x8 MFT style top will be inconvenient to put away every time you want to park your car, consider designing your work station backwards, starting from the space you will store it.

 

[TJ Cornish]

Lots of good advice here. 99% of the time a 4 x 8’ work bench is too big. For many years I cut sheet goods on the floor on a piece of foam board. If you don’t like the floor, any old support system like saw horses solves that problem.

I own 3 MFTs - one stays setup pretty much all the time, the other two come out only when needed and often in different configurations (we had a large group over a few weeks ago and they were a great buffet line).

 

[waho6o9]

Great thread.

Maximize the space you have with modular MFT table tops. After dimensioning sheet goods I use MFT tops and take care of the tasks at hand.

A 4 x 8 MFT would be great if you have the room for it. 
Good luck on your journey!

View attachment 1

 

[sancho57]

what type of square are you using to square up your MFT fence and guide rail? You need a known good square.
TSO makes a pretty good one. Id try that before you jump through all those hoops. Its the most common problem beginners have.

Also did you cut the materials factory edge? You should be cutting about 3/16s off of the factory edge to use as a base line.

I know I had the same problems and I think most have  when I started.
https://tsoproducts.com/precision-triangles-squares/ptr-18-plus-precision-triangle/

 

[Cheese]

This is what's set up in the garage right now. It's used as a general assembly table and I also rip & cross cut sheet goods on it. When not needed it breaks down into small pieces.

If I needed dog holes, I'd just make a 3 piece MFT style top. If I used shorter 80/20 rails, I'd have a 64" x 48" table.

A pair of Fulton Stablemate metal saw horses.
Some 80/20 rails to span between the horses.
3 each 2" thick pieces of foam cut to 32" x 48".

[attachimg=1]

 

[Jim_in_PA]

I will also add caution for having a big, single 4x8 work surface. IMHO, the better play is multiples that you can joint when you need a larger work area for something. In my shop...which is not tiny...I do have a 4 x 9 flattening system that also serves for using the track saw for ripping sheets and for various assembly tasks, but I made it so it breaks down to free up the space for things like assembly that needs to be at a lower level or storing components during a project, such as multiple cabinet boxes as well as finishing tasks. The largest "MFT" like work surface I have is my main bench which is 30x60 (in inches). My aux bench, which is mobile and multi-function, also has the grid. My dedicated and higher small dedicated guitar bench has the grid. Oh, and I have an older MFT for when it's needed. Aside from shear space considerations, the other negative to a 4x8 work surface is one cannot actually reach all sides of many projects without moving the workpiece(s).  So unless you have a specific reason to need that kind of "permanently large" work surface, do the modular thing for more utility.

 

[Michael Kellough]

If you understand and compensate for the limitations of the MFT you can get excellent results with the worktable.

But, the DASH-BOARD workbench is even better and is what I'd buy if I didn't already have 3 MFT's

If you prefer a knockdown system or just want a large temporary setup for cutting down full sheets then get a couple of saw horses and a pair of TRACK TUBES and a foam panel or something to lay on top.

 

[bobtskutter]

I built an 8x4 cutting bench.
It's 3 trestles and a cutting top made of 4" plywood in an eggbox type pattern.  The bench comes apart and fits in the back of my estate car, it can also be put together in 4x4 dimensions.
I an take out bits of the cutting top to open up a section for my router table, or make a router leveling sled.

I use the TSO parrallel guides and rails squares to dimension sheet goods.  They work well.

bob

 

[bwehman]

I've had one for about 6 years and it's been the best addition I could've ever added to the shop. Also functions as storage and outfeed. Here are a few photos of it when it was in my one-car garage shop. 10/10 recommend.

 

[georgeaye]

Hello FOG members,

I'm sorry for dropping off and not replying sooner. You all did me a huge kindness in replying and sharing your thoughts on how awkward a full sheet might be. I also appreciated how many people found that full-size table to help them.

After some more thinking, I am now considering a different path. Instead of a big MFT track saw cutting station, I might want to try centering my whole workflow around the CSC SYS 50 table saw, which means that my needs are slightly different—it's now more of an outfeed table and assembly area.

I can see myself turning that assembly table into an MFT later via the Parf Kit, but I hope I can get quite far with just the table saw and some flat working space for now.

I

 

[woodferret]

CSC 50 is way too small for cabinetry.  I'd say it's more for light crosscuts (eg, drawers) and narrow rips - basically a compliment to the TSC55 for cuts that get sketchy.  Everyone has suggested options for coarse breakdown, and I'd throw in the STM1800 as an overly expensive option.  I might even suggest returning the MFT if you're really tight on space, and just use the STM1800 for the panel work.  You can retrofit a mini MFT to it for clamping/domino work.  What you'd lose out on is the vertical clamping which comes in handy for edge banding and the occasional domino work.

* edit: I had considered that you could build left-edge support to your outfeed, but that's where the battery access is.  That's why the CSC cart is the way it is.

 

[jeffinsgf]

Can I suggest you pump your brakes, just a little.

First off, there are a lot of folks here, myself included, that are getting excellent results in cutting cabinet components with Festool's MFT just as it came out of the box. Yes, there are some other options, and no the MFT is not ideal for the initial break-down of a sheet. Let's address that first.

A pair of cheap or shop made sawhorses, 3-1x4's and a 4x8 sheet of foam are your best friends for the initial breakdown. Do it with that for a few projects and you'll soon have a better idea if it is a long term solution or you want to build or buy a big cutting table. Personally, the outfeed table behind my table saw is a 3' x 5' table equipped to work with a track saw, but when it comes time to man-handle a full sheet, I still use the same horses, 1x4s and scarred up piece of foam I've been using for 8 or 9 years.

Read the MFT supplemental manual and watch every video Paul Marcel has ever produced. Some of Paul's MFT commentary is a little off target, since he is using an older MFT table, but if you watch him and listen you'll absorb a deep understanding of the "Festool Way". Paul gets it. There's also a good video on MFT set up by Greg Paolini. It's old, but it is on the MFT/3 and it's worth searching for.

You may decide that one of the more elaborate fence cutting tables is what you want. Or you may decide to follow Peter Parfitt's route and build your own, which certainly has merit. Just know before you return the MFT that any of those options is going to require tweaking, patience and alignment to get consistent results.

I would never discourage you from buying a table saw, but don't buy Festool's little battery powered table saw and think it is going to be the basis of a plywood processing cabinet shop. It's not. It's for doing all the stuff that a track saw doesn't do well...rip and cross cut boards in the 1-1/2" to 8" range.

 

[Packard]

I’ve built several cabinets using a track saw to cut the panels for the boxes on nothing more than two saw horses and a foam insulation panel.

It got easier when I got the TSO squaring arms.

If you use a router table to cut the rails and stiles, then you are almost home. 

I made my rails and stiles from 3” nominal stock that I purchase already milled to size.  (I do have a table saw that I use for ripping narrow stock, but not required for those cabinets).

I started that way and added equipment where the investment would give me the biggest return on quality or speed or both. 

I usually try to drive purchase by what is required to do the job.  I did not always work that way and I have a lot of equipment that lies fallow because what looked like an essential purchase turned out to be not.

Everyone works differently.  I like mitered doors on my cabinets.  It changes the whole work flow. I’m in the minority on that and I would not try to change anyone’s work methods.  But it dictates my equipment purchases. 

I try not to overthink work methods until I have been working on them for a while. 

So big work table, small work tables, modular work tables, saw horses and a sheet of insulation—lots of choices and none of them are “right” or “wrong”. 

Personally, I would start with the saw horses and let the system evolve around you and what you are comfortable with.

 

[georgeaye]

Can I suggest you pump your brakes, just a little.

First off, there are a lot of folks here, myself included, that are getting excellent results in cutting cabinet components with Festool's MFT just as it came out of the box. Yes, there are some other options, and no the MFT is not ideal for the initial break-down of a sheet. Let's address that first.

A pair of cheap or shop made sawhorses, 3-1x4's and a 4x8 sheet of foam are your best friends for the initial breakdown. Do it with that for a few projects and you'll soon have a better idea if it is a long term solution or you want to build or buy a big cutting table. Personally, the outfeed table behind my table saw is a 3' x 5' table equipped to work with a track saw, but when it comes time to man-handle a full sheet, I still use the same horses, 1x4s and scarred up piece of foam I've been using for 8 or 9 years.

Read the MFT supplemental manual and watch every video Paul Marcel has ever produced. Some of Paul's MFT commentary is a little off target, since he is using an older MFT table, but if you watch him and listen you'll absorb a deep understanding of the "Festool Way". Paul gets it. There's also a good video on MFT set up by Greg Paolini. It's old, but it is on the MFT/3 and it's worth searching for.

You may decide that one of the more elaborate fence cutting tables is what you want. Or you may decide to follow Peter Parfitt's route and build your own, which certainly has merit. Just know before you return the MFT that any of those options is going to require tweaking, patience and alignment to get consistent results.

I would never discourage you from buying a table saw, but don't buy Festool's little battery powered table saw and think it is going to be the basis of a plywood processing cabinet shop. It's not. It's for doing all the stuff that a track saw doesn't do well...rip and cross cut boards in the 1-1/2" to 8" range.

THANK YOU! This whole reply is immensely helpful. I had never heard of Paul Marcel before, but I now have it in the queue.

I think, Like a lot of people have stated, a track saw (and the CSC in particular) might be a bit premature. I'm going to rethink my strategy.

 

[Packard]

When I started woodworking, the near universal “truth” was that a table saw was the backbone of the woodworking shop.  Everything else was an add-on.

And in truth, a table saw can do everything a track saw can do and a good deal more.

The track saw excels at field work (ease in transport) and breaking down to exact size 4’ x 8’ sheet goods.

That latter reason being the one that drove me to buy mine.

To allow a track saw to replicate other functions that a table saw does required a lot of clever engineering and a good deal of cost.

I still believe that the table saw is the more versatile tool, but I would loathe to give up my track saw.

If I had to downsize my shop and work out of a storage shed, I might change my mind.

But if starting over, and having the space, I would start with a good table saw with a 48” fence and an outfeed table.  I would add a dado head next.  And then a lot of clamps for glue-ups.

 

[cortes]

I currently use two MFT's joined on the long side as a work table. I'm going to replace it with a custom 1 x 1.5m table. I also have the Festool Mobile Saw table for cutting full sheets of plywood. It's expensive, but quite useful. I can roll it out to my truck and slide a piece of plywood on to it. It has hooks on the side that allow you to tip the table on its side to load or unload plywood. Another plus is that it collapses into a very small foot print.