Panther 12 tooth blade trashed my guide rail strips

[Spike]

I was to the impression that all the TS55 blades were they same kerf thickness so you could swap blades for various applications. I needed to rip 3/4 Sappelle. Not only was the blade wider but extremely out of tension, the cut quality was the worst I think I've seen in 24 years of cutting wood. Be careful! Hey Martin, Want to send me to guide rail strips for the 55" rails and a good Z=12 Panther blade?

 

[Dan Clermont]

Hello Taos

Use the 1400mm guide rail you purchased with the saw for crosscuts only. Buy yourself a dedicated 2700mm guide rail for rip cuts and use that rail with the panther blade. This will avoid messing up your splinterguard.

I realize it takes time to change blades when going from rip to crosscut but the Festool Fast Fix system is quick

Dan Clermont

 

[Spike]

Thank you Dan, good idea. I don't mind changing blades. However...WOW was the Panther blade I bought defective!!

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Hello Taos

Use the 1400mm guide rail you purchased with the saw for crosscuts only. Buy yourself a dedicated 2700mm guide rail for rip cuts and use that rail with the panther blade. This will avoid messing up your splinterguard.

I realize it takes time to change blades when going from rip to crosscut but the Festool Fast Fix system is quick

Dan Clermont

Taos,

You can do as Dan suggests or buy a Tenyru rip blade which has the more nearly the same kerf width as the Fine Tooth blade that came with your TS 55, then replace or reposition your Splinterguard and then use your Guide Rails interchangeably with either blade.  Here's a link to another thread in which this issue is discussed.  Since writing the linked post, I have tried that Tenyru blade and am very satisfied with its performance.  My Festool Panther blade is still sitting as a virgin in its original packaging.  When I first switched from Festool's Fine Tooth blade to Festool's General Purpose blade on my TS 55, I got a little additional debris from the Splinterguard, but I consider that amount to be negligible and not affecting alignment of the Guide Rails for the next cut with either blade.

Dave R.

 

[Spike]

Thanks Dave  ;D

 

[David Figueroa]

I agree the pather blade is the worst blade ever...  for me it gouges the wood.  Can any confirm the Tenyru rip blade is any better than Panther in cut quality?

thanks -

 

[justinmcf]

i have just had a panther blade delivered today. i am very dissappointed to read that some think it is the worst blade ever. is it really that bad?
i hope not. i will test it over the next few days and report back.
regards, justin.

 

[Neill]

I am a bit confused on this issue.  From what I understand the Panther blade for the 55 is a 14 tooth blade.  The 12 tooth is called a "standard" blade.

Is the 12 tooth also a "Panther" blade?

I have the 14 tooth Panther that I have never used.  Should I be concerned?

Thanks all.

Neill

 

[tbellemare]

Should I be concerned?

I'm not sure I would say it that way...

The Panther has a 2.5 mm kerf. The Standard has a 2.5 mm kerf. They can both be used for ripping, though the Panther is going to rip faster. It has a much more agressive design. The hook angle is 35 degrees, where the Standard is only 20.

The gullets appear to be deeper by about 2-3 mm also.

I would not expect the Panther to produce a glue-ready cut. By the same token, I would not expect it to burn the wood while ripping hardwoods because it's so agressive.

You can use the Fine-Tooth blade to rip hardwoods, and I have, but it goes slow and you are setting up for burning.

Tom

 

[Dave Ronyak]

I agree the pather blade is the worst blade ever...  for me it gouges the wood.  Can any confirm the Tenyru rip blade is any better than Panther in cut quality?

thanks -

David,

Here are some photos of my results with the Tenyru rip blade on my TS 55.  Here are some photos showing my first results using the above-pictured Tenyru Rip Blade.  The red oak is about 7/8 inch thick.  This Guide Rail previously was used with Festool's 48T Fine Tooth blade Item 491952 and 28T Universal Saw Blade Item 490516.  No additional rubber shards from the Splinterguard were observed!!

Personal Message (Online)

Finished rip cut with Guide Rail still in place

Closeup showing cut quality - very close to a glue-line ready cut.  Remember the blade is new!

Dave R.

 

[Neill]

Should I be concerned?

I'm not sure I would say it that way...

The Panther has a 2.5 mm kerf. The Standard has a 2.5 mm kerf. They can both be used for ripping, though the Panther is going to rip faster. It has a much more agressive design. The hook angle is 35 degrees, where the Standard is only 20.

The gullets appear to be deeper by about 2-3 mm also.

I would not expect the Panther to produce a glue-ready cut. By the same token, I would not expect it to burn the wood while ripping hardwoods because it's so agressive.

You can use the Fine-Tooth blade to rip hardwoods, and I have, but it goes slow and you are setting up for burning.

Tom

Tom,

Thanks so much.  Your input is always welcome. 

Sounds like I am OK with the Panther.  I understand that I will have to sand or run the ripcut boards through my jointer.

I have been using the blade that came with the saw for cross and ripcuts with satisfactory results.  That's why I have not bothered to use the Panther blade. As a hobbysit my tools get minimum use so the original blade is relatively new.

My only confusion here was what blade Taos was really talking about, the "Standard" or the "Panther"?  Only they can clarify this.

Neill

 

[Forrest Anderson]

I am a bit confused on this issue.  From what I understand the Panther blade for the 55 is a 14 tooth blade.  The 12 tooth is called a "standard" blade.

Is the 12 tooth also a "Panther" blade?

I have the 14 tooth Panther that I have never used.  Should I be concerned?

The Panther for the TS55 has 12 teeth - and it has 14 teeth!  ;D

There are two Panther blades for this saw - different kerfs, different number of teeth, different hook/chip angle, different order numbers, and different prices.

Firstly there is the "old" 14 tooth blade with a 2.5mm kerf:

Order No 439685
Designation 160x2,5x20 PW14  
Diameter  160 mm  
Cutting width  2,5 mm  
Hole dia  20 mm  
No. of teeth  14  
Chip angle  35 degrees
Tooth shape  PW  

Then there is the "new" 12 tooth Panther with a 2.2mm kerf, which is replacing the 2.5mm/14 tooth blade:

Order number 496301
Designation 160x2,2x20 PW12
Diameter  160 mm  
Cutting width  2,2 mm  
Hole dia  20 mm  
No. of teeth  12  
Chip angle  20 degrees
Tooth shape  PW  

Page 14 of the Festool New Products brochure lists the new blades, including the new Panther (note the standardised kerf of 2.2mm throughout the new blade range):

Unfortunately, page 5 of that brochure, which gives details of the new 2.2mm kerf Panther blade, says it's got 14 teeth!  :

Both old and new blades are currently listed as available on the Festool UK website - price 36.70 GBP + VAT for the new 12/2.2mm, and 36.25 for the older 14/2.5, and no doubt stocks of the older blade will be gradually sold. Note that the illustration mentions that the "Standard" blade (487377, 12 teeth, 2.5mm kerf) will be also be phased out, to be replaced by the new 12 tooth Panther.

The Festool Facts newsletter for Spring 2009 also has an article introducing the new blades, although order numbers and specifications are not given:

Note that the above is based on European marketing information.

Forrest

 

[Neill]

Forrest,

Super information.  You are indeed the Festoolmeister!  I did not realize the answer would be so complicated but you have simplified it.

Thank you!

Neill

 

[tbellemare]

The US Panther has 14 teeth and the US Standard has 12 teeth.

At least the last time I looked...  

I just read more closely above. It says they are discontinuing the Standard. From the spec's, it looks like they renamed the Standard to the Panther, made it slimmer and discontinued the old Panther. The hook angle on the one remaining is like the old Standard.

Tom

 

[Neill]

Tom,

Just when I thought I understood...

Neill

???

 

[tbellemare]

'Sorry, Neill...

If you look closely, the current U.S. blades (and the old European blades) include both a "Standard" and a "Panther". Going forward, they are only going to have a Panther. Look at the comparison below...

Name		Kerf (mm)		Teeth		Hook Angle (Chip Angle in UK)
Old Standard		2.5		12		20
Old Panther		2.5		14		35
New Panther		2.2		12		20

To me, it looks like the "new Panther" is a "skinny old Standard".

Tom

 

[Neill]

'Sorry, Neill...

If you look closely, the current U.S. blades (and the old European blades) include both a "Standard" and a "Panther". Going forward, they are only going to have a Panther. Look at the comparison below...

Name

Kerf (mm)

Teeth

Hook Angle (Chip Angle in UK)

Tom,

Thanks.  I think I understand.  You and Forrest have been most helpful.

Neill

Old Standard		2.5		12		20
Old Panther		2.5		14		35
New Panther		2.2		12		20

To me, it looks like the "new Panther" is a "skinny old Standard".

Tom

Tom,

Thanks for clearing this up.

Neill

 

[Coen]

Sorry for bumping this thread, but I've got to show something:

http://cgi.ebay.nl/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400122877749&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Here I see... a 160mm Festool blade, 48 teeth... 2.5mm

True, the blade picture doesn't match the description of the blade that is being sold, but still.

The number on it is 439684

So it appears there has been an 'old' 48 teeth 160mm (maybe pre-TS55) blade.

Later this day I'll check my TS55 (it's got a 48 teeth blade) on what number the blade has.

This thread dug up some old knowledge from the recycle bin in my brain from studying a Festool catalog some years ago. Unfortunately I recently trashed the old catalogs I think. But I kept the 2001 and 2003 price list when I found them two weeks ago. For inflation calculation purposes.