Parallel Guide Set Or Small Table Saw?
- Thread starter Dan Clark
- Start date
Hi Dan,
I own both and I really like the parallel guides. I also usually work with solid lumber only and not much in sheet goods. I really like the accuracy and portability of the guides and once calibrated, they are equal to or better than my cabinet saw. I just got done making a bookcase (actually finishing sanding it now) and I did not use the cabinet saw at all to make the parts -- everything was cut and sized with the TS75, MFT/3 and guides. It works really well. Yes you have to account for material under the rail, but I find it safer to rip small strips with the PG extensions than on the tablesaw. I would love to reclaim the space my saw takes up and I may ultimately move in that direction. Also, consider the parallel fence for the saw as another means of getting accurate rips without the guide rail. If I were a production woodworker, then I would most certainly have an use a tablesaw. But for home improvement/hobbiest use where I am not trying to beat the clock, I think that the PG system works very well. And the best part is that I can store them in a small area when done and not have all of the wasted space of a tablesaw (granted the portable saws will not be as much of a space hog). Another thought is to invest in a good bandsaw as a stationary saw - a well tuned bandsaw would allow you to rip narrow strips and process solid wood just like a small tablesaw, but in a small footprint. A bandsaw also opens up a world of other possibilities that you cannot get with any other saw (resawing, for example).
Scot
I own both and I really like the parallel guides. I also usually work with solid lumber only and not much in sheet goods. I really like the accuracy and portability of the guides and once calibrated, they are equal to or better than my cabinet saw. I just got done making a bookcase (actually finishing sanding it now) and I did not use the cabinet saw at all to make the parts -- everything was cut and sized with the TS75, MFT/3 and guides. It works really well. Yes you have to account for material under the rail, but I find it safer to rip small strips with the PG extensions than on the tablesaw. I would love to reclaim the space my saw takes up and I may ultimately move in that direction. Also, consider the parallel fence for the saw as another means of getting accurate rips without the guide rail. If I were a production woodworker, then I would most certainly have an use a tablesaw. But for home improvement/hobbiest use where I am not trying to beat the clock, I think that the PG system works very well. And the best part is that I can store them in a small area when done and not have all of the wasted space of a tablesaw (granted the portable saws will not be as much of a space hog). Another thought is to invest in a good bandsaw as a stationary saw - a well tuned bandsaw would allow you to rip narrow strips and process solid wood just like a small tablesaw, but in a small footprint. A bandsaw also opens up a world of other possibilities that you cannot get with any other saw (resawing, for example).
Scot
Kev
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This is a area of pondering I've been putting off - but now it's out there to talk about ...
I too feel I need a modest table saw. Back a few years I had a Triton setup. For those that don't know it, Triton is a self assemble kit that comes in various configurations and types ... I had the table saw with a large Hitachi under it, ps an extension table, a router table (yes, large Hitachi under that too).
The Triton gear was the worst of both worlds - the accuracy was low and the robustness was fairly poor. It was a bit clunky, prone to rust ... but yes, relatively cheap.
So we parted ways ... but I kept the big power hand saw and router.
Now I'm with KAPEX and TS55 , but not table saw, not router table (... did I mention I got rid of my scroll saw and floor standing drill too?)
Here in Oz we can get the CMS and PRECISIO range, but we can also get a lot of other stuff too - but space is my dilemma. For one third of the price of a PRECISIO 70, I can get a 305mm table saw with a good range of features - but it's big!
The CMS is nice and compact, but I can easily imagine it being very limiting when I want to work on something bigger than a cupboard drawer ...
DANG! Now I'm all stressed and confused [eek]
I too feel I need a modest table saw. Back a few years I had a Triton setup. For those that don't know it, Triton is a self assemble kit that comes in various configurations and types ... I had the table saw with a large Hitachi under it, ps an extension table, a router table (yes, large Hitachi under that too).
The Triton gear was the worst of both worlds - the accuracy was low and the robustness was fairly poor. It was a bit clunky, prone to rust ... but yes, relatively cheap.
So we parted ways ... but I kept the big power hand saw and router.
Now I'm with KAPEX and TS55 , but not table saw, not router table (... did I mention I got rid of my scroll saw and floor standing drill too?)
Here in Oz we can get the CMS and PRECISIO range, but we can also get a lot of other stuff too - but space is my dilemma. For one third of the price of a PRECISIO 70, I can get a 305mm table saw with a good range of features - but it's big!
The CMS is nice and compact, but I can easily imagine it being very limiting when I want to work on something bigger than a cupboard drawer ...
DANG! Now I'm all stressed and confused [eek]
I ended up picking up the DW745 when I needed about 40 feet of thin strips (about 2mm) made for joining old laminate floor to new laminate floor that didn't have compatible tongue and groove. Quickly built a sled and cranked out those strips in no time.
I ended up building a platform with castors for DW745 as a dust collection down draft that lined up the top of DW745 to be the same height as MFT on the castor platform I built separately for it.
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I ended up building a platform with castors for DW745 as a dust collection down draft that lined up the top of DW745 to be the same height as MFT on the castor platform I built separately for it.
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Hi Dan
I have gone through this decision making process...
When I started to 'Festool' myself I sold most of my heavy woodworking machinery, including a lovely table saw. All that remains is my planer/thicknesser and bandsaw. However, when I have time to do my cabinet making I often need thin strips of contrasting wood for stringing inlay work. I tried using the bandsaw but soon realised that I needed a table saw.
In the end I bought the cheapest table saw made by Jet which is available here in the UK. I hate using it but it is only ever used for those jobs that cannot be done safely with my TS55 or Kapex.
My ambition is to have a Precisio CS70 or a CMS TS75 combo but the cashflow does not allow this at the moment.
I hope that you come to a conclusion soon - you could always write a note to Father Christmas!
Peter
I have gone through this decision making process...
When I started to 'Festool' myself I sold most of my heavy woodworking machinery, including a lovely table saw. All that remains is my planer/thicknesser and bandsaw. However, when I have time to do my cabinet making I often need thin strips of contrasting wood for stringing inlay work. I tried using the bandsaw but soon realised that I needed a table saw.
In the end I bought the cheapest table saw made by Jet which is available here in the UK. I hate using it but it is only ever used for those jobs that cannot be done safely with my TS55 or Kapex.
My ambition is to have a Precisio CS70 or a CMS TS75 combo but the cashflow does not allow this at the moment.
I hope that you come to a conclusion soon - you could always write a note to Father Christmas!
Peter
Guy Ashley
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andy5405 said:
Andy
I cannot find any result on the part number you quoted.
Do you mean these
http://www.powertoolworld.co.uk/festool-rail-clamps-accessories/festool-fs-pa-parrallel-side-fence.html
and these are the extensions
http://www.powertoolworld.co.uk/festool-rail-clamps-accessories/festool-guide-extensions-fs-pa-vl-495718.html
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Perhaps we have another one of those rare AINABNE (Available in North America But Not Elsewhere) situations. Usually if there is a letter in front of the NA part number it is a special package.
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Peter
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Peter
mohrab said:
Yes, read that too and am interested in the saw if it has the dust collection port on guard as an option like on the current models... maybe it would fit nicely with a CT dust extractor. The article says (or somewhere I read) saw is expected to hit the market this coming summer.
woodwrights_corner
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Parallel guides or small table saw or Benchtop planer.
Shops repetitively rip narrow pieces of solid wood (for face frames) on a cabinet table saw. I can do that with my guide rail alone or with parallel guides. They are cut a little proud and then run through a planer to make absolutely certain all edges are smooth and each is of equal size.
I don't have a planer but am really looking at a DW 735 with the Byrd Shelix head (just because it intrigues me). Also, I will have more flexibility as to the cuts of solid wood I can buy.
Anybody have thoughts about this as an option?
Shops repetitively rip narrow pieces of solid wood (for face frames) on a cabinet table saw. I can do that with my guide rail alone or with parallel guides. They are cut a little proud and then run through a planer to make absolutely certain all edges are smooth and each is of equal size.
I don't have a planer but am really looking at a DW 735 with the Byrd Shelix head (just because it intrigues me). Also, I will have more flexibility as to the cuts of solid wood I can buy.
Anybody have thoughts about this as an option?
sancho57
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Dan ,
I have a contractors saw that Ive used for years. But since I have gotten into festool I hardly turn it on. I use thin strips on the cabinents I build ILO edge banding. I found the PG a tad touchy to use when I rip thin strips off of hard wood 6 ft or longer. Plus the width of the material makes them a tad tedious to use as the stock gets narrower and narrower with each cut.
But I think if room is a issue for you and you dont rip long pieces of thin material you should be ok with the PG.
But once the stock gets narrow (4" or less) you will need to either use another board or a TS.
I to have a space issue and been thinking about selling my full size TS and picking up the little Bosch TS just for that reason.
Ya know thinking about this again, if you make your own cabinet doors say a kitchen full, you'll be better off with a TS
I have a contractors saw that Ive used for years. But since I have gotten into festool I hardly turn it on. I use thin strips on the cabinents I build ILO edge banding. I found the PG a tad touchy to use when I rip thin strips off of hard wood 6 ft or longer. Plus the width of the material makes them a tad tedious to use as the stock gets narrower and narrower with each cut.
But I think if room is a issue for you and you dont rip long pieces of thin material you should be ok with the PG.
But once the stock gets narrow (4" or less) you will need to either use another board or a TS.
I to have a space issue and been thinking about selling my full size TS and picking up the little Bosch TS just for that reason.
Ya know thinking about this again, if you make your own cabinet doors say a kitchen full, you'll be better off with a TS
Gentlemen,
Again, many thanks for the great comments. Regarding...
A bandsaw - A bandsaw is one of the few other tools that I want to get at some point. I pondered Scot's suggestion for a while last night but ultimately came to the conclusion that I should wait until I get my garage into it's final "garage\shop" configuration. That will probably be about 6 months away.
Parallel Guide Set - I realize now that it's not going to take the place of a table saw. But I'll probably get a set in the future. Maybe an upcoming sale??? [smile]
Portable Sawstop - This is an interesting option. If it was say $150 more than a Dewalt or Bosch saw, I'd probably go for it. The
only downside is that it will probably be mid 2012 at the earliest before it's available.
The used Bosch 4100 - I emailed the fellow last night and got no reply. I suspect that it's sold. Oh well.
Best regards,
Dan.
Again, many thanks for the great comments. Regarding...
A bandsaw - A bandsaw is one of the few other tools that I want to get at some point. I pondered Scot's suggestion for a while last night but ultimately came to the conclusion that I should wait until I get my garage into it's final "garage\shop" configuration. That will probably be about 6 months away.
Parallel Guide Set - I realize now that it's not going to take the place of a table saw. But I'll probably get a set in the future. Maybe an upcoming sale??? [smile]
Portable Sawstop - This is an interesting option. If it was say $150 more than a Dewalt or Bosch saw, I'd probably go for it. The
only downside is that it will probably be mid 2012 at the earliest before it's available.
The used Bosch 4100 - I emailed the fellow last night and got no reply. I suspect that it's sold. Oh well.
Best regards,
Dan.
Dan, I got a PG set with extensions a couple of years ago but never got around to putting them to use. it always seemed so much quicker to set up for very thin pieces the same way i always have with MFT & ATF 55. i have made repeat cuts as narrow as 3/16 inch by setting up blocking in front of my saw guide. It seemed very awcward using the PG's. today, i set up a cutting surface using 2x4's and found it to be very quick using the PG's to cut narrow strips (scrap lumber for today) as long as i have enough board under the guide. When making very narrow strips, i think I will still use the block in front of the saw guide. it is much quicker and i can make angle cuts when using the strips as a border. I do see the advantage of using the PG's for breaking down sheets and I found they are great for use as a squre for cutting short lengths of 1x and 2x lumber. i just use the guide rail and one side of the PG set. i will do some more experimenting later, but for short lumber, i think if i still had a table saw, that is what I would use for repeat rips. since my shop is very small and crowded, i have no doubt I will now use the PG's for long rips.
My answer then is: you know how much space you have. If you have room to feed material thru the table saw, the table saw might be of better use. If you have tight quarters to work in and feeding material thru a table saw is a real hastle, there is always a way to get the job done to perfection with a MFT/ TS combo. It just sometimes takes some figuring to do it with accuracy once you get down to very small pieces. i got rid of my table saw once i learned how to make do with my Festoys. I do agree with the responder who suggested a Bandsaw. I got one several years ago, but got the cheapest in the store, thinking i would not get much use out of it. How wrong i was. That BS gets used for almost every project, as i get my lumber rough cut and to larger dimensioning (thickness) than needed. I should have spent more so it would not be so difficult resawing. That has been a regretable mistook that one day will be rectified. The BS is indispensible.
Tinker
My answer then is: you know how much space you have. If you have room to feed material thru the table saw, the table saw might be of better use. If you have tight quarters to work in and feeding material thru a table saw is a real hastle, there is always a way to get the job done to perfection with a MFT/ TS combo. It just sometimes takes some figuring to do it with accuracy once you get down to very small pieces. i got rid of my table saw once i learned how to make do with my Festoys. I do agree with the responder who suggested a Bandsaw. I got one several years ago, but got the cheapest in the store, thinking i would not get much use out of it. How wrong i was. That BS gets used for almost every project, as i get my lumber rough cut and to larger dimensioning (thickness) than needed. I should have spent more so it would not be so difficult resawing. That has been a regretable mistook that one day will be rectified. The BS is indispensible.
Tinker
Dan, obviously a wealth of information on this thread already....
My only contribution is a question....how long are the small pieces you want to cut? IMO, this is what differentiates the value of TS vs. PG's.
I have a cabinet saw and TS75 w/ PG's. IMO, the limitation of a TS of any kind, is the length of its fence. The smaller the TS, the shorter the fence. The length of the fence is a relative issue. If the fence is longer than the work you are cutting, its a no-brainer which is easier and faster, TS wins. The trouble IMO starts when the piece you are cutting becomes longer than the fence... the greater the difference, the harder it its to control the wood against the fence, sometimes requiring a 2nd person (another consideration) ..... or, if you can't afford mistakes or saw marks on your edges. This is where the PG's excels, as its fence (the rail) is always longer than your workpiece...sometimes this is a HUGE benefit, other times, it offers no benefit, it depends on the length of the wood you are ripping and the TS fence length.
I agree with others, PG's are a love / hate thing.... PITA to set up, so unless I am doing a LOT of a single dimension, I never use them. But when I am making consistent long rips, I love'em again... no complaints. There is no one perfect tool....
Of course, then you have the obvious issues, support stands around a small TS, storing the TS if space is a consideration, etc. (which is always Festools claim-to-fame)
My only contribution is a question....how long are the small pieces you want to cut? IMO, this is what differentiates the value of TS vs. PG's.
I have a cabinet saw and TS75 w/ PG's. IMO, the limitation of a TS of any kind, is the length of its fence. The smaller the TS, the shorter the fence. The length of the fence is a relative issue. If the fence is longer than the work you are cutting, its a no-brainer which is easier and faster, TS wins. The trouble IMO starts when the piece you are cutting becomes longer than the fence... the greater the difference, the harder it its to control the wood against the fence, sometimes requiring a 2nd person (another consideration) ..... or, if you can't afford mistakes or saw marks on your edges. This is where the PG's excels, as its fence (the rail) is always longer than your workpiece...sometimes this is a HUGE benefit, other times, it offers no benefit, it depends on the length of the wood you are ripping and the TS fence length.
I agree with others, PG's are a love / hate thing.... PITA to set up, so unless I am doing a LOT of a single dimension, I never use them. But when I am making consistent long rips, I love'em again... no complaints. There is no one perfect tool....
Of course, then you have the obvious issues, support stands around a small TS, storing the TS if space is a consideration, etc. (which is always Festools claim-to-fame)
Tinker, Jsands,
Hi. A bandsaw has always been on my to-buy list. But remodeling the master bathroom and then the garage have taken priority. The bathroom is almost complete except for the trim work and other odds and ends. I'm working on the garage now. Since the two-car garage has to share space with two cars, adding a lot of shelving is necessary to get enough space for more woodworking equipment.
Even when the garage shelving is in place there isn't enough space for any table saw except for a small portable one. A bandsaw is nice because it doesn't take up a lot of floor space.
A famous philosopher once said, "All good things come to those who wait.". Hmmm... I think that was Hanibal Lecter! [big grin]
Regards,
Dan.
Hi. A bandsaw has always been on my to-buy list. But remodeling the master bathroom and then the garage have taken priority. The bathroom is almost complete except for the trim work and other odds and ends. I'm working on the garage now. Since the two-car garage has to share space with two cars, adding a lot of shelving is necessary to get enough space for more woodworking equipment.
Even when the garage shelving is in place there isn't enough space for any table saw except for a small portable one. A bandsaw is nice because it doesn't take up a lot of floor space.
A famous philosopher once said, "All good things come to those who wait.". Hmmm... I think that was Hanibal Lecter! [big grin]
Regards,
Dan.
kfitzsimons
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Another small table saw you might consider is a used Inca 250 / 259. The 259 has a mortising attachment. It can use 10" blades, but 8" blades are standard. The arbor (20mm) stays stationary and the table is adjusted up and down. The table also tilts, not the arbor. It's a beautiful little saw. Very precise. I use Forrest blades drilled to the larger 20mm. The prices for used ones vary greatly. From a couple of hundred to one listing right now in California for $1000. I paid about $450 for my 259 a few years ago.
Now my "problem". I also have a Delta Unisaw. My shop is my two car garage (in Ohio) which has to house two cars in the winter. I have a beautiful Biesemeyer cut-off sled (not made any longer) and a Dubby sled for the Unisaw. The Unisaw is 220v and cuts through maple like butter. Forrest blades are used. I also have a Biesemeier splitter fit to it so it's pretty safe.
I would really like to get rid of the Unisaw for space reasons, but when I use it, it just works with no effort. Especially with the cut-off sleds. I have the TS55 and a couple of rails, so I could still cut panels.
The Inca works beautifully also, but it is not the same as the Unisaw. It feels like a 2/3 size version. I wish I could decide to part with the Uni, but I just can't. I'm just a hobbyist.
Maybe I need to talk to Dr. Phil.
Kevin
Now my "problem". I also have a Delta Unisaw. My shop is my two car garage (in Ohio) which has to house two cars in the winter. I have a beautiful Biesemeyer cut-off sled (not made any longer) and a Dubby sled for the Unisaw. The Unisaw is 220v and cuts through maple like butter. Forrest blades are used. I also have a Biesemeier splitter fit to it so it's pretty safe.
I would really like to get rid of the Unisaw for space reasons, but when I use it, it just works with no effort. Especially with the cut-off sleds. I have the TS55 and a couple of rails, so I could still cut panels.
The Inca works beautifully also, but it is not the same as the Unisaw. It feels like a 2/3 size version. I wish I could decide to part with the Uni, but I just can't. I'm just a hobbyist.
Maybe I need to talk to Dr. Phil.
Kevin
mohrab said:
Anyone have any updates on this new saw? I'm just starting to think about maybe this is the route to take and seriously considering the Bosch 4100-09 but I definitely want to see how Sawstop implements their idea for a saw in this class. The stopping feature is a given but curious about all the other details.
Dan, go for the bandsaw. It takes up very little room, I would say even less than these folding table saws. I recently got the Rikon 14" and it's been great having it in my garage. I put it on a mobile base and can easily move it around if I needed to.
Ken Nagrod
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hobbes said:
I'll try to remember to ask a certain person during the week and let you know.
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