Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions

[gnlman]

Hi. I've been wondering if the ruler issue had been worked out yet....Went thru 3 sets of rulers and wasted 3 sheets of material...finally gave up and chucked the parf system in the corner, and used another method....wasted money so far...but this post does have me wondering if the issues has been corrected...I bought mine early direct before they were available...service was good in sending me replacements...once manufactured, but after three tries and a lot of time spent I just moved on....anyone know if the ruler issue is good now?
Greg

 

[AstroKeith]

I've just marked out and drilled about 200 holes. Everyone perfect.

 

[gnlman]

wanna trade rulers...lol
Greg

 

[TSO_Products]

Hi, I have just started making my mft top and found that the pin is very hard to insert. Need to use my palm and a thick cloth to push the pin down. Is so tight that I need to use a rubber mallet to hammer from the bottom and most of the time I need a plier to pull it out. The 2 pins also came out from the holder. Brought it in Dec 2018 and only start to come around using it now.

my hand and fingers really sore now after drilling a full sheet of mdf.

Does anyone experience this with their parf guide?

welcome to the FOG and to TSO.
We'll help you - call me right now this Saturday  afternoon to get you going.

Hans
800 727-0311
or email your phone number FOG name and real name so we can connect the dots -  to hans@tsoproducts.com

 

[id192313]

Hi TSO thanks for the offer but I brought it from UK.

I managed to finish the table by gluing back the pin but it still a major issue with the tightness. After drilling all the 20mm holes the parf dog need to be hammer out from below. It is super tight.

I did the 5 cuts test but vey disappointed at the result. Tried many time to just square all the side but failed. At least 1 mm off. Just could not get a perfect square. Maybe I’m doing it wrong. Now waiting for Axminister response.

 

[TSO_Products]

Hi TSO thanks for the offer but I brought it from UK.

I managed to finish the table by gluing back the pin but it still a major issue with the tightness. After drilling all the 20mm holes the parf dog need to be hammer out from below. It is super tight.

I did the 5 cuts test but vey disappointed at the result. Tried many time to just square all the side but failed. At least 1 mm off. Just could not get a perfect square. Maybe I’m doing it wrong. Now waiting for Axminister response.

[member=73082]id192313[/member] -buying from TSO is not a prerequisite for getting help with woodworking - especially for FOG members [smile]
As I wrote before, email me your phone number so I can call and help you directly. No reason for you not to get good results.

Hans
info@tsoproducts.com

 

[Hollatime]

Having an issue getting good results, ordered from Axminister roughly start of May this year so assumed the old issues were worked out. I reached out to support but guess they are closed through the weekend, and plenty of knowledgeable users here.

How much, if any play should be in the 3mm bushing?

Given I am pretty terrible at the entirety of woodworking, have followed protocol/watched every video/multiple attempts so truly the worlds worst or just missing out on something here.

One attempt the first 10 holes were not straight. I clamped the parf stick, ensured bushings fully seating/no dust etc, max try hard mode really. The bizzare part about this is I did the double checking that Matt Estlea does in his review as well and seemed to look good, which I dunno.

I tried again and used double sided tape to secure the stick, same issue first 10 not even straight but better than the attempt before.

I haven’t done independent testing of each stick yet to see if I can isolate something, and measuring the holes/bushings seems fine and know my measuring abilities probably not the most accurate. Also the bushing has to be able to get in the hole and what not tolerance wise.

Only things I could think of would be-

Something happening when clamping the stick, why I tried double sided tape next go
Stick/s machined incorrectly
Play within the standard 3mm bushing

The 3mm bushing will rock side to side and is a bit tippy, but hold it with a death grip. It will spin freely and can shift somewhat laterally without the tipping.

I checked the 3mm holes with the pins to try to isolate any issues happening while drilling the 20mm holes and a 36” Veritas steel straight edge taps

Tried to upload a vid but guessing that’s a premium app feature, will edit it in later

Again know user error generally my biggest hurdle but really put my try hard pants on with this I feel. Really would like to get the parf system working since the fit is basically perfect, if anything a bit snug with some manufacturers.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[AstroKeith]

Having an issue getting good results, ordered from Axminister roughly start of May this year so assumed the old issues were worked out. I reached out to support but guess they are closed through the weekend, and plenty of knowledgeable users here.

How much, if any play should be in the 3mm bushing?

Given I am pretty terrible at the entirety of woodworking, have followed protocol/watched every video/multiple attempts so truly the worlds worst or just missing out on something here.

One attempt the first 10 holes were not straight. I clamped the parf stick, ensured bushings fully seating/no dust etc, max try hard mode really. The bizzare part about this is I did the double checking that Matt Estlea does in his review as well and seemed to look good, which I dunno.

I tried again and used double sided tape to secure the stick, same issue first 10 not even straight but better than the attempt before.

I haven’t done independent testing of each stick yet to see if I can isolate something, and measuring the holes/bushings seems fine and know my measuring abilities probably not the most accurate. Also the bushing has to be able to get in the hole and what not tolerance wise.

Only things I could think of would be-

Something happening when clamping the stick, why I tried double sided tape next go
Stick/s machined incorrectly
Play within the standard 3mm bushing

The 3mm bushing will rock side to side and is a bit tippy, but hold it with a death grip. It will spin freely and can shift somewhat laterally without the tipping.

I checked the 3mm holes with the pins to try to isolate any issues happening while drilling the 20mm holes and a 36” Veritas steel straight edge taps

Tried to upload a vid but guessing that’s a premium app feature, will edit it in later

Again know user error generally my biggest hurdle but really put my try hard pants on with this I feel. Really would like to get the parf system working since the fit is basically perfect, if anything a bit snug with some manufacturers.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lets work through this in stages.

1. check the holes are 'straight' on the Part sticks with a straight edge
2. drill a long row of 3mm holes in a piece of scrap wood. Use decent clamps to hold sticks at each end to the wood. (ie not double sided tape)
3. check the 3mm holes are 'straight' with a straight edge.

report back with findings!

 

[Hollatime]

Having an issue getting good results, ordered from Axminister roughly start of May this year so assumed the old issues were worked out. I reached out to support but guess they are closed through the weekend, and plenty of knowledgeable users here.

How much, if any play should be in the 3mm bushing?

Given I am pretty terrible at the entirety of woodworking, have followed protocol/watched every video/multiple attempts so truly the worlds worst or just missing out on something here.

One attempt the first 10 holes were not straight. I clamped the parf stick, ensured bushings fully seating/no dust etc, max try hard mode really. The bizzare part about this is I did the double checking that Matt Estlea does in his review as well and seemed to look good, which I dunno.

I tried again and used double sided tape to secure the stick, same issue first 10 not even straight but better than the attempt before.

I haven’t done independent testing of each stick yet to see if I can isolate something, and measuring the holes/bushings seems fine and know my measuring abilities probably not the most accurate. Also the bushing has to be able to get in the hole and what not tolerance wise.

Only things I could think of would be-

Something happening when clamping the stick, why I tried double sided tape next go
Stick/s machined incorrectly
Play within the standard 3mm bushing

The 3mm bushing will rock side to side and is a bit tippy, but hold it with a death grip. It will spin freely and can shift somewhat laterally without the tipping.

I checked the 3mm holes with the pins to try to isolate any issues happening while drilling the 20mm holes and a 36” Veritas steel straight edge taps

Tried to upload a vid but guessing that’s a premium app feature, will edit it in later

Again know user error generally my biggest hurdle but really put my try hard pants on with this I feel. Really would like to get the parf system working since the fit is basically perfect, if anything a bit snug with some manufacturers.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lets work through this in stages.

1. check the holes are 'straight' on the Part sticks with a straight edge
2. drill a long row of 3mm holes in a piece of scrap wood. Use decent clamps to hold sticks at each end to the wood. (ie not double sided tape)
3. check the 3mm holes are 'straight' with a straight edge.

report back with findings!

1. I didn’t really know the best way to gauge this. I laid a straight edge on the top/bottoms of the holes and nothing seemed drastically off. Laying the sticks on top of each other seemed OK as well but always uncertain if they’re aligned.

I also swapped the sticks after drilling the holes to see if they matched. I noticed for certain on one hole the rule would shift when placing the third pin (1 in 0, 10 holding the parf stick). I had suspicions on some other holes but again kinda just peering at this thing and wondering if it moved/would it even be relevant.

Both lines weren’t straight to best my abilities to determine. Substrate was mdf-i, dyed with transtint and 2 coats of Osmo poly x. Siliconed to a steel frame. Used 2 of the screw mft clamps and one of the ratchet ones and it would’ve been pretty difficult to move the parf stick I think. Straight edges were the 1” thick steel variants from Lee Valley (12,24,36”) and double checked with a 12” Starrett and 24” PEC blemished rule from combo squares.

Both lines had multiple configurations that would cause the straightedges to rock. Checked both sides, moved the line around a bit to try to see if it was just one bad hole but nothing really stood out and enough of the configurations seemed off. There were some configurations that appeared straight/didn’t tap.

Seated the bushing, pecked, no gross show of error while drilling or the bushing tipping. I feel a bit silly sitting there like intensely focused on form but like lol something is not going right. Reminds me of just recently discovering my ts55 has something borked where the blade will cant even after removing the side plate/adjusting back to 90. I could probably win gold in the track saw olympics after recording and analyzing my form assuming I’m just bowing the rail or pushing sideways or something. Maybe finally have the excuse to buy the Mafell.

Can’t imagine if perfect drilling technique was such a requirement that this system could even be based on drill bushings/widely well reviewed and in general always assume user error.

Made sure to try to tap the straight edges straight and what not since the pins are curved, again try hard mode engaged for sure.

 

[AstroKeith]

Don't think I can help any more. I just have drilled 200+ holes and they are all within 0.1mm of spot on. 90% of them I cant measure any error at all. I was careful in drilling vertical, but not super so. Perhaps you have a duff set?

 

[Vtshopdog]

Not sure what procedure you are following, but I've had excellent results with my set doing following:

Drill first two holes at extremities of the stick (say 0 and 10) then insert pins.  At this point you need to be careful as you can introduce flex in the ruler, I clamp ruler very carefully and check that clamping does not flex or push the ruler.  Next drill center hole (5 in this example) add the third pin and from there drilling the other holes is straightforward.

If you are drilling 3mm holes from one end to the other (0 then 1, then 2 .....) then flex errors are more likely.  Hopefully nothing wrong with your kit.  Sorry, sounds like you were drilling a fairly finished panel that is now possibly spoiled?

 

[Stone Message]

Hi [member=72532]Hollatime[/member]  and thanks to [member=72891]AstroKeith[/member]

The biggest error that users of the Mark 2 PGS make is in registering the pins in the rulers. The pins have a 6 mm boss that fits (very) snugly in the ruler yet it is all too easy to think that the two are registered but are not.

In order to have a foolproof approach do the following. When trying to engage a pin in the ruler lift the ruler slightly and make sure that the 6 mm part of the pin really does engage in the 6 mm hole of the ruler. Then push the pin and ruler down together.

The tolerances are tight and when you first receive your Mark 2 you may need to use a twisting motion to get the engagement between pin and ruler the first few times.

It was a hard decision to have this 6 mm hole/boss approach but the key advantage is the super accuracy when drilling the 3 mm holes. The 3 mm guided drilling is spot on.

I am really grateful to Hans [member=59331]TSO Products[/member] for the support that he is giving to the ever growing PGS community.

I am also pleased that Ron Paulk is now using the Mark 2 version for all of his custom bench tops.

Take care everyone and stay safe during this difficult time.

Peter

 

[Hollatime]

[member=68668]Vtshopdog[/member]  [member=11196]Peter Parfitt[/member]

I don’t think it’s an issue with locating the pins as it’s occurring in the very first set of 10mm holes. I’ve watched your video/do the whole register pin then push it+parf stick down etc.

VTshopdog. I do the same operation except never used the third pin. Drilling the last 2 test rows I left the sticks fully clamped the entire time. Always finish before just in case it effects the tolerance of the holes.  Annoying time wise for me but a ruined panel/scrap pretty common for me haha

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MikeGE]

Having an issue getting good results, ordered from Axminister roughly start of May this year so assumed the old issues were worked out. I reached out to support but guess they are closed through the weekend, and plenty of knowledgeable users here.

How much, if any play should be in the 3mm bushing?
The 3mm bushing will rock side to side and is a bit tippy, but hold it with a death grip. It will spin freely and can shift somewhat laterally without the tipping.

The bushing is 6mm for the MK 2 and is made for the 3mm drill.  Is this what you mean?

My Parf Guide MK 2 arrived last week from Axminster, but I didn't open it up until now because of the problems you are having with yours.  After I wiped all of the oil off of the components, I tried both of the 6mm bushings for drilling, the three 3mm pins with 6mm shoulder, and the 6mm joining screw.  Everything fit snuggly in the rail holes and I could not move them side to side at all.  With both rails joined, all of the holes line up as perfectly as I can see and everything is solid with no movement at all.

Made sure to try to tap the straight edges straight and what not since the pins are curved, again try hard mode engaged for sure.

This has me really confused.  What are you tapping to straighten and which pins are curved?

 

[Hollatime]

Having an issue getting good results, ordered from Axminister roughly start of May this year so assumed the old issues were worked out. I reached out to support but guess they are closed through the weekend, and plenty of knowledgeable users here.

How much, if any play should be in the 3mm bushing?
The 3mm bushing will rock side to side and is a bit tippy, but hold it with a death grip. It will spin freely and can shift somewhat laterally without the tipping.

The bushing is 6mm for the MK 2 and is made for the 3mm drill.  Is this what you mean?

My Parf Guide MK 2 arrived last week from Axminster, but I didn't open it up until now because of the problems you are having with yours.  After I wiped all of the oil off of the components, I tried both of the 6mm bushings for drilling, the three 3mm pins with 6mm shoulder, and the 6mm joining screw.  Everything fit snuggly in the rail holes and I could not move them side to side at all.  With both rails joined, all of the holes line up as perfectly as I can see and everything is solid with no movement at all.

Made sure to try to tap the straight edges straight and what not since the pins are curved, again try hard mode engaged for sure.

This has me really confused.  What are you tapping to straighten and which pins are curved?

The 6mm bushing, non-spigoted one is the one I am referring to. I haven't tested the joining screw, the spigoted bushing seems like a closer fit than the non.

I am trying to determine if the holes I have drilled are straight. After drilling a row of 3mm holes, I removed the parf stick and inserted the 3mm pins with 6mm shoulders into a variety of the holes and checked it with a straight edge

 

[MikeGE]

The 6mm bushing, non-spigoted one is the one I am referring to. I haven't tested the joining screw, the spigoted bushing seems like a closer fit than the non.

I am trying to determine if the holes I have drilled are straight. After drilling a row of 3mm holes, I removed the parf stick and inserted the 3mm pins with 6mm shoulders into a variety of the holes and checked it with a straight edge

There is no bushing without a spigot in the MK 2 kit.  One has a short spigot, or shoulder, for use with one rail and the other has a longer spigot for use where two rails intersect.  If you have a bushing without a spigot, then this might be the problem.

 

[Hollatime]

The 6mm bushing, non-spigoted one is the one I am referring to. I haven't tested the joining screw, the spigoted bushing seems like a closer fit than the non.

I am trying to determine if the holes I have drilled are straight. After drilling a row of 3mm holes, I removed the parf stick and inserted the 3mm pins with 6mm shoulders into a variety of the holes and checked it with a straight edge

There is no bushing without a spigot in the MK 2 kit.  One has a short spigot, or shoulder, for use with one rail and the other has a longer spigot for use where two rails intersect.  If you have a bushing without a spigot, then this might be the problem.

Correct. I would be referring to the one with the shorter spigot

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Hollatime]

Following up on my earlier issues.

I'm pretty dissapointed with Axminster and the Parf Guide MKII. I reached out with my initial issues, and had to check in practically every day with CS for over 2 weeks until they finally shipped replacement parf sticks and the small spigot drill bushing. It was also sent  through a budget carrier/not the typical DHL awesomeness.

I am almost certain it is not user error at this point. I follow protocol as if I was disarming a nuclear warhead. I've tried different drills, I've legit made 10 or so attempts and none of them have worked out.

The only thing I could think of at this point aside from another set of bunk sticks is the orange 20mm jig doesnt lay entirely flat, but I assumed that was due to the dust port/hose. I use all 3 pins whenever possible to secure/locate the jig and hold it with my hand down as well.

Considering my prior experience with  Axminster's CS, I'm not really interested in waiting another 3 weeks just to again waste more time and materials on this system. The QC just isn't there I suppose, or I am just an absolute stone idiot.

 

[BarrySumpter]

I've recently raised enough funds to invest and I am considering the Parf Guide Mark II System.

Any progress since last post?

I see there is a shipment due in 2 weeks.
41 coming in and 2 on back order.

Any suggestions to wait or not?

 

[Stone Message]

Hi Everyone

There are two videos that will help. The first is quite long but it gives the step by step instructions for building a tracksaw cutting station and includes me pointing out common errors that are the most likely cause of a disappointing result:


After that went up a number of viewers asked me to show the 5 cut test (also know as a 4 cut test if you have one good side at the start).


Peter