Penny Wise and Pound Foolish: A Rant on Biased Tool Reviews

[AlexThePalex]

I find it funny that whenever Festool doesn't come on top in a review the review is called biased here.

From the description of the OP I find no bias in that review other than the price.

The OP's post says:

He wrote “To further narrow the field, I eliminated the otherwise terrific Festool for simply being too expensive”. 

but the OP doesn't explain why the reviewer has to narrow the field. Seems like the reviewer set some boundaries we're not told about. However, the reviewer does call the Festool sander "terrific", which was, the last time I checked, a compliment. Yep, sure, that was all heavily biased.

Seems to me the only problem here is that Americans still have a hard time getting used to the high price point of Festool. Compared to Europe, everything in America is ridiculously cheap. But now with Festool, some of those high prices here spill over to the States (mind you, Festool is still cheaper for you than for us and the Aussies). Some people like you guys here on the forum don't mind and see the extra value for yourself, but obviously you're a minority. The only bias the reviewer is guilty of, as far as I can tell from what is described here, is that he reflects that.

 

[festooltim]

I read a review somewhere about big routers. They had the 2200 in with the others. They reviewed it and gave the the specs  for it but said it was in a class by itself and wasn't really fair to compare it to the others. When most people hear the price of Festool they will dismiss it without even trying to find out if it worth it to them. I'am not a tool snob I still shop at Harbor Freight for some things. I have a cousin who sells lawn mowers he said people will drive in with thier 60,000 dollar truck and then not want to spend over a thousand dollars on a riding mower. To each thier own I guess.

 

[ShawnRussell]

>>>>people will drive in with thier 60,000 dollar truck and then not want to spend over a thousand dollars on a riding mower.

These are the people I will never understand. They will spend thousands on an auto, 1k on a green egg smoker, hundreds on a watch, thousands on an audio setup, but piss and moan about a 700-1k tool that makes them money.  But, as you said, to each his own.

 

[Frank Pellow]

Cost is about the only thing people can find to   and moan about, when they are comparing other tools to festool.

I learned long ago that I can't afford cheap tools.

Right on!  I have, in fact, found that some people who ask me why I purchase Festool, actually understand when I use that line and point to my many Festool tools that have survived heavy use and abuse for 5 to (almost) 10 years.

By the way, I have similar discussions about many of my Veritas tools.

 

[srzsrz]

I really like the idea of paying more up front for something that will just work, and last. But the problem with that strategy is that you really have to do your homework. If you pay extra for something better that then turns out not to be quite good enough after all, you wasted a lot of money. If you put yourself out there as an expert and recommend something expensive to others, you are going to want to be pretty darn sure that it really is good. The nice thing about buying the $20 sander/drill/whatever at Harbor Freight is that you can afford not to do that sort of homework. You just pick it up and hope for the best. Sometimes, it works just fine for your purposes, and sometimes it doesn't, but one thing you know for sure: it won't break the bank.

This is not only true about tools. I've owned a number of $50-ish household vacuum cleaners that invariably had plastic bits break off and dust get all over the mechanism, bogging down the motor and eventually causing it to burn out. Using one of these invariably gave me a soar throat and a headache, suggesting that much of the dust made it right back into the ambient air. Then, I bought a $300 Miele. It's amazing. Anything that gets within an inch or so of the end of the hose ends up in the filter bag, and nowhere else. The filtering works. (I confirmed with my Dylos.)

But there's something I left out of this story: before blowing $300 on an effin' vacuum cleaner, I spent a lot of time making sure that this would actually work. Hours of time. Brand reputation can help there, but it's not perfect. Every good brand has an occasional miss. I've heard of people buying $2000 Miele dishwashers in the US, where common dishwashers can be as cheap as $200, because of their great reputation in Europe — only to discover that they are nearly impossible to get serviced in this country. Oops!

So where I'm going with this is I think that the reluctance of editors to recommend something expensive is just a matter of risk aversion. Ultimately, the expensive tool may be worth the price, but it's much safer to recommend a cheaper tool that is decent enough rather than going out on a limb and telling people to buy, to take an extreme example, a Kapex.

 

[Scott B.]

It all comes down to knowing your audience. Knowing who your readers are. Writing content relevant to them.

As a regular in the print publication arena, there are many layers to that onion. The minute a magazine tries to be all things to all demographics, its pretty much done.

 

[Old School Carpenter]

A client once told me " my greatest fear is I will pay ALMOST enough to get what I need."
When it comes to tools that statement is especially true!

Gerry

My greatest fear is that when I die, my wife will sell all my tools for how much I said I spent on them!
[eek]

Mike

 

[Sparktrician]

It's been said before, and I wholeheartedly agree, that "good enough", isn't. 

 

[Tinker]

I learned long ago that I can't afford cheap tools.

Or small ones ;D

 

[Brice Burrell]

My greatest fear is that when I die, my wife will sell all my tools for how much I said I spent on them!
[eek]

Mike

Well, if you finds out before you die, she might end up sending you to an early grave. [tongue]

 

[Alan m]

i havent read this artical but am sumising what  i think it says
they find the festool brilliant but remove it because of its price . presumably finding one of their sponsers tools to be the best

i dont expect the festool to be crowned the best  in every review but i would like to see it included and faily tested in every review.

surly the point of these reviews is to find the best tool. price is irelevent to that. i dont think anyone here would mind if the festool wasnt the best .
they should crown the best overall and best with everything considered(price,customer service, etc)

i for one am sick of a lot of these reviews. i didnt review any of my subscriptions  but still buy some of them if something interests me.
i found that a lot of the reviews were fately flawed (like the festool vac  with no bag fiasco)
i shouldnt be readig the review and contradicting the reviewers findings and the way they tested the tool

 

[TinyTiger]

I find it funny that whenever Festool doesn't come on top in a review the review is called biased here.

From the description of the OP I find no bias in that review other than the price.

The OP's post says:

He wrote “To further narrow the field, I eliminated the otherwise terrific Festool for simply being too expensive”. 

but the OP doesn't explain why the reviewer has to narrow the field. Seems like the reviewer set some boundaries we're not told about. However, the reviewer does call the Festool sander "terrific", which was, the last time I checked, a compliment. Yep, sure, that was all heavily biased.

Seems to me the only problem here is that Americans still have a hard time getting used to the high price point of Festool. Compared to Europe, everything in America is ridiculously cheap. But now with Festool, some of those high prices here spill over to the States (mind you, Festool is still cheaper for you than for us and the Aussies). Some people like you guys here on the forum don't mind and see the extra value for yourself, but obviously you're a minority. The only bias the reviewer is guilty of, as far as I can tell from what is described here, is that he reflects that.

Alex - I think you're misunderstanding and misinterpreting me here. 

My point is not that Festool didn't come out on top.  I own several non-Festool tools as well and even (gasp!) like them.  My point is the reviewer set a very specific list of criteria such as performance, etc. , etc. and then IGNORED THEM ALL to throw the tool out based solely on price.  That is from his direct quote.  You're right - I don't know what boundaries he set that we're not told about.  None of us do, or can, can we?  That's why we can only trust that the field will be narrowed based on the very criteria the author tells us about in the article. 

That's my point about what I interpret as bias.  He didn't follow his OWN RULES.  How credible is that?

 

[TinyTiger]

I remember about 10 years ago a certain Mr. Norm Abrams on the New Yankee Workshop used a biscuit joiner from Lamello, and everyone had to have one.  It was the best thing since sliced bread.  I also remember it was around $700 at the time for the pro model.  Isn’t $700 about 10 years ago just about the same as what we pay for a Domino today?  Strangely, I can’t remember one person complaining about the cost.  You paid it and smiled.

I think you are mixing up the facts to make the story support your position.  Yes Norm used a Lamello plate joiner.  One or two shows maybe.  But he didn't become biscuit crazy until Porter Cable produced their first plate joiner.  The original one with the D handle on back and the fixed fences.  He used that model on every show.  It was also about $150 new.  After Porter Cable opened up the market to low cost plate joiners, the sales exploded.  And DeWalt, Elu, Makita came out with their models similar in price to the Porter Cable.  No one ever got anywhere close to the Lamello in price.  Price drove the plate joiner sales.

RussellS - With respect, I think you are getting your facts mixed up.  It was definitely more than one or two episodes.  According to the normstools.com website (which details what tools are used on which episodes), the Lamello Top 20 Biscuit Joiner (marked with a STAR, no less) showed up in 68 separate episodes from Season 5 through Season 18.

 

[TinyTiger]

It all comes down to knowing your audience. Knowing who your readers are. Writing content relevant to them.

As a regular in the print publication arena, there are many layers to that onion. The minute a magazine tries to be all things to all demographics, its pretty much done.

I think you hit it on the head!  A different demographic.  Too bad they don't give at least a nod to the other demographics.....

 

[NuggyBuggy]

I find it funny that whenever Festool doesn't come on top in a review the review is called biased here.

From the description of the OP I find no bias in that review other than the price.

I agree completely.  The reviewer was up-front about why he removed it from final consideration, acknowledged that the Festool was a good sander, and almost implied that it would have taken top spot if cost were not a consideration. 

And truth be told, cost is almost always a consideration.  I imagine that for many of the people on the FOG who I have always assumed are hobbyists (most pros usually don't have time or interest to engage in genital swinging contents in their domain), Festools are a luxury that we indulge ourselves in, not a value proposition, regardless of what we tell ourselves.  For pros, the situation *may* be different.

If I picked up an article on cars and read an article comparing sedans, I'd have no problem with the writer noting that a Bugatti or Maybach sedan was expensive compared to the Japanese and American sedans in the article, and removing them from the final assessment.

 

[Frank Pellow]

I find it funny that whenever Festool doesn't come on top in a review the review is called biased here.

From the description of the OP I find no bias in that review other than the price.

I agree completely.  The reviewer was up-front about why he removed it from final consideration, acknowledged that the Festool was a good sander, and almost implied that it would have taken top spot if cost were not a consideration.  

And truth be told, cost is almost always a consideration.  I imagine that for many of the people on the FOG who I have always assumed are hobbyists (most pros usually don't have time or interest to engage in genital swinging contents in their domain), Festools are a luxury that we indulge ourselves in, not a value proposition, regardless of what we tell ourselves.  For pros, the situation *may* be different.

If I picked up an article on cars and read an article comparing sedans, I'd have no problem with the writer noting that a Bugatti or Maybach sedan was expensive compared to the Japanese and American sedans in the article, and removing them from the final assessment.

" Festools are a luxury that we indulge ourselves in, not a value proposition"

This is absolutely not true in my case.  Most of my Festool tools have saved me time, money, and health.  And, I am not a pro.

 

[cliffp]

On Ebay I regularly see Festool products sold for a very high proportion of their original price. In contrast, I sold a cheap power planer on Ebay (one of the big DIY stores own brands) that cost £35 new for £1.31. I know I only lost £33 on it but it was completely useless anyway.

 

[NuggyBuggy]

" Festools are a luxury that we indulge ourselves in, not a value proposition"

This is absolutely not true in my case.  Most of my Festool tools have saved me time, money, and health.  And, I am not a pro.

Well, I'd love to see how you quantified that they saved you the time and money doing hobby work to cover the significant cost premium over comparable tools.

 

[Alan m]

" Festools are a luxury that we indulge ourselves in, not a value proposition"

This is absolutely not true in my case.  Most of my Festool tools have saved me time, money, and health.  And, I am not a pro.

Well, I'd love to see how you quantified that they saved you the time and money doing hobby work to cover the significant cost premium over comparable tools.

i could easily see a track saw saving 50% time on a job compared to a circular saw
the domino could save 80 %  compared to a dedicated hollow chisel morticer and band saw for the tenons
vac saves time not having to clean up as much at the end of each day
the sanders save a lot on sand paper . my 6" disks on my ro150 last about 4 times longer than the dewalt ones on my 5 " dewalt sander

 

[Frank Pellow]

" Festools are a luxury that we indulge ourselves in, not a value proposition"

This is absolutely not true in my case.  Most of my Festool tools have saved me time, money, and health.  And, I am not a pro.

Well, I'd love to see how you quantified that they saved you the time and money doing hobby work to cover the significant cost premium over comparable tools.

I don't have actual figures but I do know that my tools last a very long time and that I can accomplish things with them that I could not do with previous tools.

I will give you one example.  Before I purchased my (still working) Festool jig saw in early 2004, I had gone through 3 jig saws in the previous 10 years (one Makita, one Bosch, and one Craftsman).  Furthermore, none of them could come even close to the accuracy of the Festool.  I can rely on my Festool jig saws (I now have two of them) to make cuts that I never even dreamed that a jig saw could make.