Phil's lack of hearing protection in recent Festool UK video productions.

[Kev]

A PM to Phil might have also worked.

Peter

Perhaps Peter, but I think the issue is consumer safety, it's not about Phil as a person. He is obviously a great representative for Festool UK. There was also probably a film crew of around three, including a producer/manager.

And we would not have had this discussion about hearing protection, nor indeed Going Commando, if this was private.

[member=1674]Peter Halle[/member]  [member=41214]Phil Beckley[/member]

If it makes us as trade people/woodies all take notice then it all works out fine and there is a use to all of this.
It is important and will be part of the check list in the future.
..........still no chance of 'commando style' though [embarassed]
rg
Phil

Good thing too. We wouldn't want any impromptu saw stop style demonstrations [eek]

 

[TelcoRandy]

So does this mean that Festool is opposed to people working while "going commando?" If so, why?

Some official feedback on this would put my mind at ease.

 

[Daver]

Safety is serious business and I'm glad we're having this discussion. My preference is for corded earplugs (which are marketed as providing a 25db reduction by their use). I keep multiple pairs handy.

Having said that, I think an important part of this discussion has been glossed over and so I would like to address it.

I prefer the temporary discomfort of the muffs! (Is muff even the right word to use in English?.. it is making me think of something else  [eek])

Yes muff is the right word and is commonly used in English to describe the ear protection 'ear muffs' you are describing.
And Yes on that other use.

  [censored]

 

[charley1968]

In Germany it's prohibited to wear gloves when you work with (stationary) machinery.
Same in the rest of the world?

 

[jonathan-m]

[member=19746]Untidy Shop[/member] ... about the message ... aren't we getting a bit over-sensitive here?  It's just a video to promote tools, not a politically correct video showing every aspect of a safe working environment.

People should know these things for themselves without constantly having to be reminded about it in every product video you see.

I wish I had 4 hands, so I could give this 4 thumbs up!

First of all I want to clearly state, this is nothing personal and it is not meant to offend. I know this is all done with the best intentions. I have nothing against safety. This stuff just really grinds my gears.
Some things can just go without saying. A real warning simply gets lost between all the other stupid warnings.

I am just so tired of these US based YouTube videos with excessieve disclaimers and safety warnings.
I completely understand you guys are so used to this that you think it's normal. But guys, it is not. It's so over the top it's really frustrating. In fact I find it to be ridiculous.

I assume it's done to cover yourselves from yet another lawsuit and cater to the lowest denominator. But a lot of video's are shot like the person watching must be mentaly incapacitated.

Luckily for us, the rest of world doesn't suffer from all these ridiculous lawsuits and excessive baby'ing and this stuff is simply really really annoying and borderline offensive to be adressed in such a way.

 

[sae]

[member=14783]jonathan-m[/member] hey, don't throw us in the same category as the health and safety capital of the world (the UK). At least we don't try to preempt the litigation, and have lawsuits before the disclaimers come out in full force.

 

[jools]

While I agree that the constant reminders and disclaimers is annoying to those of us sensible to use it if it saves one eye or someone's hearing it is worth it. At the the age I am now with 40 years in farming and construction I count myself lucky to still have all my faculties and digits. I constantly wear hearing and eye protection now especially as the products have improved so much in the last 10 years but in my youth it wasn't an option that we had. 15 hour days on the combine dust storm, non cab tractors, hours breaking concrete, post drivers, pile drivers etc etc all done with no ear/eye protection. When the airstream helmets became available it was a real eye opener and a shock to see what the filters took out.
Whilst we all complain about "health and safety gone mad" the requirement on site of boots/eyes /ears has saved countless injuries that where excepted as occupational risk. However making guys wear hard hats in the middle of a field with no obvious risk is dumb but a companies health and safety guy must rule to a possible risk and take the descion away from the employee however experienced he is. Is that for the employees benefit or to cover the companies liability? Well we don't have to be too cynical to see the answer to that one but the current requirements sure cut down on injuries in the work place and I am all for that. Those of us that are self employed/working in our shops can make ongoing descions on what's appropriate for the job in hand.  No matter how experienced I get with tools I'm fully aware that one lapse in concentration or technique could result in injury and I wear eyes/ears/toecaps as a bare minimum.
Kind regards
Jools

 

[Bigchasbroon]

When I was an apprentice when working in dusty environments I was often told to take deep breaths and it will go away quicker.
On the one hand I get sick of people telling me what I should do and the unnecessary paperwork, time and expenses that are caused by legislation but on the other hand I've been asked to do some dangerous things and I've met enough people who have had to give up work due to workplace injuries.

Recently two things have happened which have caused me to take H&S a little more seriously. My brother is an engineer and first aider. At his work they were pressure testing something (they make valves and such for the oil industry) and it gave way at 5000psi the release of pressure took a guys arm clean off at the shoulder, my brother put his fist in the hole that was left to stop the bleeding. And last week I tipped a mini dumper, I jumped clear but I've since heard of people who have had spines crushed by the roll bar.

So there's a balance to be struck and I think sometimes we've swung a little too far to other other way. I don't need a written method statement and risk assessment to prevent me having an accident with a ts55.

Plus I never wear ear protection. I'm hoping to go deaf so I dont have to listen to the wife! "What's this on the credit card statement? Nuts and bolts? You been buying more festool?" "Sorry dear can't hear you" 

 

[Kev]

I believe in education not regulation, I still like to give Darwin a chance to take the idiots out of the gene pool. Today it's generally safe to be stupid ... argue the point if you like, but stupid normally breeds a lot more stupid .. and quickly too!

I don't believe in the "imposition the world to save one person's finger" is really acceptable. Shades of grey apply.

 

[peter halle]

I wrote what I wrote because all too often in the internet world finding an issue in an otherwise useful illustration turns into a micro inspection and then a counterpost.

Should Phil have illustrated hearing protection used?:  Yes.  Or if he didn't the video should have a statement that it is strongly recommended that hearing protection be used.

Same thing for eye protection..

I have had pieces of metal removed from my eye twice.  I have hearing damage from using tools without hearing protection.

I have damage to my hearing and to other nerves in my body due to chemo that killed a tumor the size of anyone's head.

I accept what I have done even if that is against everything that has been written for decades.

Hearing protection threads here are numerous - go search.  Calling someone out on the forum for this is not cool in my view - but allowed by the forum guidelines, so continue as you wish.

I choose to not roll that way.

Peter

 

[andy5405]

This one could go on and on so I will try to be brief. It has given me something to chuckle about and particularly in respect to the not very loud circular saw which has a very dangerous exposed blade that no-one seems bothered about. If I were to subscribe to the OP's general stance on this one, surely the blade would be the starting point or maybe the fact it is powered by electricity. Hearing protection is relevant but way down the list if Festool are responsible for wiping our arses every time they promote a product.

Oh well, thanks to our cousins who left in a rickety boat all those years ago, we all know now that where there's blame there's a claim. I actually laughed so hard at this thread that I have strained one of the 43 muscles in my face that it takes to smile. This has lead to permanent minor facial disfigurement which means I won't pull that supermodel I'm hoping to meet in a bar somewhere tonight. It's hard to put a figure on how the resultant psychological trauma will affect me for the rest of my life but I will settle out of court for £100,000k. 

Of course I don't want to go to court as the judge might point out that I failed in my quest because I'm fat, bald, have bad teeth, halitosis, I'm too old and frankly bored her to death. But someone's to blame and I'm not prepared to accept it's me.

BTW I haven't watched either video, I didn't feel the need. Also I don't mean to be offensive to anyone but we really are talking about a 1st world problem. If I currently was putting my life back together in Nepal and read this thread I might be tempted to use the bad word.

 

[aas]

Plus I never wear ear protection. I'm hoping to go deaf so I dont have to listen to the wife!

Thanks for the early morning laugh!  [smile]

 

[Kev]

[popcorn] [popcorn]

This could get interesting ... So in preparation I'll further clarify my prior post to distance myself from some potentially sensitive viewpoints ...

If every piece of info we view on the FOG (or the web, or the press) that's provided in any way by a person associated with a tool manufacturer,distributor, seller, trainer, professional, etc needs to contain specific safety content we're just going to see it all vanish.

A new type of tool or a variation on a tool that makes it more dangerous - sure, be a good health and safety citizen and make people aware, but if everything needs or should have extensive safety training and awareness inbuilt we'll see an end to all that we value here and pretty much everywhere else.

Just about every day I'll see someone texting on their phone, with headphones on, as they amble across a road. Don't think I've ever seen a phone commercial that tells people not to do that ... I have seen a couple of public safety ads on buses regarding the matter, but you couldn't distinguish them from a sales ad without paying very close attention! Clever, clever people!

I doubt if there's an instruction manual that tells you not to point a loaded gun at your head and pull the trigger when you buy one ... truthfully I wouldn't know ... but you frequently hear about people accidentally shooting themselves.

If we tell people not to do anything dangerous all the time they'll stop recognising what IS dangerous OR unsafe. Near me there's a fence with a shear drop on the other side, with a sign saying "don't climb the fence" .. REALLY [eek]

 

[sancho57]

Huh? hey Kev, could ya speak up?

 

[Kev]

Huh? hey Kev, could ya speak up?

Sorry, I'd read it out LOUD to you but I've got a big splinter in my eyeball [sad] so I can't right now.

 

[sancho57]

Me to and a patch on the other one, now I got to go make some cuts on my table saw, can ya point me in the right direction

 

[teocaf]

...so I will try to be brief...

that's what they all say... but, i did read and enjoyed your entire posting.

yeah, when i read the OP's entry i had the question: "why is this guy being a tool about the hearing protection?".  but i did not want to jump in and tell him what to post, what not to post and so forth--because then i would be doing the same thing he's doing.  so, like others, i laughed and just moved on.

then just now i'm reading this other thread where everyone is talking about their professions and i see what the real deal is--i had the answer to my question.  the guy HAS to get on and point out safety infractions.  he's been a school principal all these years, so it comes very naturally.  i imagine it's just like when i go to pick up my kids from school, where the principal or some other teacher is walking down the hall surrounded by a sea of kids and constantly chastising:  "take the pencil out of your nose, Jordan", "no running with the craft scissors, Alice!", "don't throw your earmuffs at Billy, Muffy!", "i'm WATCHING you, Wazowski..."

so take it easy on ol' Untidy Shop guys!  he just couldn't help it; that kind of thing is ingrained in his very being--old habits and all that...

by the way, i'm wearing top-of-the-line hearing protection when writing this--the kids are at home for the summer.  talk about the dangers of working from home, don't get me started...

 

[demographic]

My daughter has a great phrase to be used in this exact occasion...

"Meh"

 

[Stephen B]

...so I will try to be brief...

that's what they all say... but, i did read and enjoyed your entire posting.

yeah, when i read the OP's entry i had the question: "why is this guy being a tool about the hearing protection?".  but i did not want to jump in and tell him what to post, what not to post and so forth--because then i would be doing the same thing he's doing.  so, like others, i laughed and just moved on.

then just now i'm reading this other thread where everyone is talking about their professions and i see what the real deal is--i had the answer to my question.  the guy HAS to get on and point out safety infractions.  he's been a school principal all these years, so it comes very naturally.  i imagine it's just like when i go to pick up my kids from school, where the principal or some other teacher is walking down the hall surrounded by a sea of kids and constantly chastising:  "take the pencil out of your nose, Jordan", "no running with the craft scissors, Alice!", "don't throw your earmuffs at Billy, Muffy!", "i'm WATCHING you, Wazowski..."

so take it easy on ol' Untidy Shop guys!  he just couldn't help it; that kind of thing is ingrained in his very being--old habits and all that...

by the way, i'm wearing top-of-the-line hearing protection when writing this--the kids are at home for the summer.  talk about the dangers of working from home, don't get me started...

[size=13pt]
No, Jordan was usually running down the corridor to which I would say, "Principal Radar not working today Jordan!?"

And here is The Tool's -
(I hate ear plugs, and find the banded plugs exert too much pressure in the ears.)

[attachimg=1]

[member=2205]teocaf[/member]    [smile]

-----------
Some of the criticism, I have received here stems I believe from the attitude, many of us have to Health and Safety Inspectors. The nanny State. None of us (including me) like being 'policed'. My first run in with a WorkSafe inspector was when he came to check on some asbestos removal at my last school. This was taking place during the longer summer vacation. "Oh while I am here, I notice ...... " And served me a notice on a minor non related matter!!  That notice  took two days for me to get rectified. [eek]

 

[bkharman]

[popcorn] [popcorn]

This could get interesting ... So in preparation I'll further clarify my prior post to distance myself from some potentially sensitive viewpoints ...

If every piece of info we view on the FOG (or the web, or the press) that's provided in any way by a person associated with a tool manufacturer,distributor, seller, trainer, professional, etc needs to contain specific safety content we're just going to see it all vanish.

A new type of tool or a variation on a tool that makes it more dangerous - sure, be a good health and safety citizen and make people aware, but if everything needs or should have extensive safety training and awareness inbuilt we'll see an end to all that we value here and pretty much everywhere else.

Just about every day I'll see someone texting on their phone, with headphones on, as they amble across a road. Don't think I've ever seen a phone commercial that tells people not to do that ... I have seen a couple of public safety ads on buses regarding the matter, but you couldn't distinguish them from a sales ad without paying very close attention! Clever, clever people!

I doubt if there's an instruction manual that tells you not to point a loaded gun at your head and pull the trigger when you buy one ... truthfully I wouldn't know ... but you frequently hear about people accidentally shooting themselves.

If we tell people not to do anything dangerous all the time they'll stop recognising what IS dangerous OR unsafe. Near me there's a fence with a shear drop on the other side, with a sign saying "don't climb the fence" .. REALLY [eek]

A very wise man once said...

"Common sense doesn't seem so common anymore"