Planer Thicknesser Safety

[Stone Message]

I have owned my Elektra-Beckum planer thicknesser for over 20 years. It has carbide blades, gets a regular clean and oil and is as good now as it was when it was new. I would like to ask members opinion of the safest way to have the blade guard when the planer is set up like a jointer (surface planing).

The UK Health and Safety Executive recommend that the guard is kept low to the surface of the planer bed and with a gap between the end of the guard and the fence (picture B) when planing the thin edge of a board. They recommend that for the planing of the larger face that the guard is raised and set against the fence so that the stock can pass under the guard (picture A).

I never set my guard in position A. I always use a push stick in my right hand (the hand that does the pushing). My left hand is used just to guide the piece and if the stock is thin then I also use a push stick in this hand. My push sticks allow a high degree of control - I can also use chopsticks pretty well!

My reason for always using the method shown in picture B is that I have more control at the end of the cut as I can continue to keep a downward pressure until the very end of the cut. It also stops the temptation to do the last little push of the stock as it goes under the guard with one's fingers.

I have done a search for planer accidents and the majority that I have found has been associated with the final few inches of a cut and have involved the 'pushing' hand. My brother had an accident in this way. In every case the guard has been used in position A. The only accident that I found with a guard in position B has been where the operator was not using a push stick.

I am really careful in the workshop and think carefully before doing anything with sharp or fast moving tools. I feel safer using method B for all planer operations. What do you think?

I raise this issue as I am about to publish some pictures in 'The Woodworker' which show me using method B.

Peter

 

[PaulMarcel]

The American "porkchop" blade guard is basically photo B, but sets itself automatically as you push through.  Mine has the "euro guard" you have in the photos, but I prefer the porkchop (folding tomato if you're vegetarian...).  I can easily see what you are saying about the temptation to push under the guard in photo A.  Also find it awkward to transfer over the guard.  In conjunction with the fence, the porkchop can also help prevent a 'kickback' from hitting a knot that wants to throw the board back since its shape is very much like an anti-kickback pawl on its side.  Edit: I meant to imply that you could more easily modify the porkchop to help prevent backward motion; apparently i didn't say that very well and it is massively confusing; more wine? yes please.

 

[Guy Ashley]

Peter

When planing the face of the board I use these which keeps the pressure on but most importantly your fingers away from the blades

http://jetjointershopp.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/jet-jpb-36-jointer-tablesaw-push-pad.html

 

[Stone Message]

Thanks Paul, JMB and Guy,

In the 20+ years of using my machine I have never experienced 'kickback'. I wonder whether tungsten blades kept sharp help.

People in Europe, especially in the UK, never seem to challenge the Health and Safety chiefs about their dictats.

I have seen those pusher things, Guy, but love my German designed push sticks as they can be used to exert a lot of pressure down and to either side. I have no pictures of these push sticks.

Thanks.

Peter

 

[flair woodworks]

I also prefer B.  And I don't see how a porkchop guard could possibly help prevent kickback.  The surface that bears against the stock is smooth.

 

[Deansocial]

Thanks Paul, JMB and Guy,

In the 20+ years of using my machine I have never experienced 'kickback'. I wonder whether tungsten blades kept sharp help.

People in Europe, especially in the UK, never seem to challenge the Health and Safety chiefs about their dictats.

I have seen those pusher things, Guy, but love my German designed push sticks as they can be used to exert a lot of pressure down and to either side. I have no pictures of these push sticks.

Thanks.

Peter

No we just ignore thier stupod dangerous ideas. If doing it their way feels dangerous then i wont do it that way. I use method B.
Also live by the rule of not touching the sharp spining bit and dont push your hand towards it without a push stick etc.

 

[junk731]

I prefer B but the manufacturer of my equipment, Felder, shows proper use to be A in their demo videos. This positioning is also dependent on whether you are edge jointing or face jointing.

John

 

[Stone Message]

Perhaps we should all write to the manufacturers of our various machines and to the Health and Safety people in our own countries and tell them what we think.

Peter

 

[stvrowe]

I generally use position A with pushblocks unless the guard will not go high enough to enable the workpiece to pass under it.  The biggest problem with position B is with facing wide workpieces the guard will cause an obstruction to body position which is awkward unless it folds down similar to the Felder comfo guard.

 

[Kev]

Thanks Paul, JMB and Guy,

In the 20+ years of using my machine I have never experienced 'kickback'. I wonder whether tungsten blades kept sharp help.

People in Europe, especially in the UK, never seem to challenge the Health and Safety chiefs about their dictats.

I have seen those pusher things, Guy, but love my German designed push sticks as they can be used to exert a lot of pressure down and to either side. I have no pictures of these push sticks.

Thanks.

Peter

I dont listen to any health and safety crap.  I do it my way or the highway!  I know what I feel is safe or not and if I something happens its my own fault.  The **** head safety chiefs act like they are your mum and dad looking over your shoulder shouldnt do this shouldnt do that bla bla bla bla!   All they need to worry about is making sure companies dont make/force employes to practice dangerous stuff and make sure machines etc are kept to a good safety standard! from then on its the users responsibility.   

JMB

Safety is important. We've seen several injury stories on the FOG (one yours). I'll honestly be amazed if these posts aren't removed !

Health and safety are important - particularly in relation to how unsuspecting people can be in danger to their respiratory systems, sight, hearing, etc ... and all that without cutting a hand off to become "experienced and knowledgeable".

There are a lot of inexperienced people that need to start with safety in mind when they start using tools of any kind.

On planers - I have a lot of respect for them ... as with any of these big tools, a lot of damage can be done before the pain reaction gets to the brain.

Over confidence can be as fatal as ignorance ...

 

[Stone Message]

Kev

The point of my question is to illusrate what I think is a safer way to use the surface planer and seek FOGgers' opinion, not to bypass safety altogether. The UK Health and Safety people have given incorrect advice in the past and it may be that the weight of opinion is that method B might be safer.

Now in this process it is not unreasonable for a few chaps to come out of their workshops and say what they think of H&E. I think that we can all spot those remarks quite easily. If anyone reading such remarks abandons their own safety regime then they were never really safety conscious in the first place.

I am so safety conscious that I do not allow anyone to use my tools, I do not allow anyone into my workshop if I am working and I even wear safety glasses when I do the grass!

Peter

 

[Mettes]

Option A is the way I was taught, the way I use and the way I used to teach my students (did a year of training unemployed people).  I can only speak for Belgium, but that is the way carpenters are learned to use the planer.  

Push stick seem to me cumbersome when planning.  But maybe that's because I've never used them.

Here is a promotional video of Martin machinery, illustrating quiet good how I use the planer.  The safety guard in the video is Suvamatic, and really one of the best I've used.

[flash=200,200]http://youtu.be/1Wls3oH_NYM[/flash]

My reason for always using the method shown in picture B is that I have more control at the end of the cut as I can continue to keep a downward pressure until the very end of the cut. It also stops the temptation to do the last little push of the stock as it goes under the guard with one's fingers.

I find this a remarkable thing to say.  If you want your board to be flat, you don't want to push down in front of the knives "until the very end of the cut".  As soon as a reasonable length is on the aft table you move both hands to put pressure there, that way you can get a flat board.  If you keep pushing on the front table chances are that you lift the piece up that's already past the cutter.  That way you can't get your board flat.
You can see it quiet well in the video to.  If the board was even 2m longer I would move my hands at the same time, maybe a little later, but certainly not at the end, and feed the rest of the board from the aft table.

Hans

 

[Frank-Jan]

Like Mettes option A.

Allthough I haven't used a jointer since school; (And for me that is adult education evening school, in highschool I didn't have workshop classes, more Latin and such)
I remember they taught me that for the last part you only need to apply downward pressure on the outfeed table, so there is no risk of wanting to put your fingers under the guard for the last bit as you describe.

 

[Kev]

Kev

The point of my question is to illusrate what I think is a safer way to use the surface planer and seek FOGgers' opinion, not to bypass safety altogether. The UK Health and Safety people have given incorrect advice in the past and it may be that the weight of opinion is that method B might be safer.

Now in this process it is not unreasonable for a few chaps to come out of their workshops and say what they think of H&E. I think that we can all spot those remarks quite easily. If anyone reading such remarks abandons their own safety regime then they were never really safety conscious in the first place.

I am so safety conscious that I do not allow anyone to use my tools, I do not allow anyone into my workshop if I am working and I even wear safety glasses when I do the grass!

Peter

Hi Peter,

I fully realise your level of safety from both you videos and the fact that you care about the topic of safety. My comments were squarely aimed at JMB's I dont listen to any health and safety crap comment ... there's a lot of people on the planet that need very little influence to ignore established safety procedures.

When you think about the young apprentices that truly need guidance "you don't need respiratory protection, plus it's hot and uncomfortable" will sound good now, but doesn't look too good in ten years when their lungs have disintegrated.

To my thinking, health and safety direction should always be acknowledged and understood ... if you recognise it to be wrong, you should always make best efforts to provide accurate feedback for the safety of others. I have seen lives destroyed and know of several deaths that could all have been avoided ... sorry to all if I seem to be on a high horse on this topic - but it is very important to me.

I suppose to remain on topic I should comment on planer safety. A clever design could incorporate both the top cover and the "pork chop" to further reduce risk. But anyway, my A/B choice ... with hands safely clear and not extending your reach, I'd go with B using push sticks.

 

[Stone Message]

Thanks Kev - excellent.

Hans, I take your point about the downward pressure - I should have explained it more clearly. I will not lean across my planer and so the downward pressure is applied with both hands. The front hand is well clear of the blades (on the outfeed side) but to keep the stock flat (on the outfeed table) some downward pressure is required with the push stick. My outfeed table is fairly short (cheap and cheerful planer) and so applying pressure has to be done carefully to avoid uneven finishing - this is particularly important when planing larger stock.

Many thanks for your helpful contribution.

Peter

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I like the porkchop guard on my 16" jointer.

I never really cared for the Surety Guard or the Euro style one's.

 

[Tinker]

I have not used a jointer in many-manyy moons.  I was taught Hans's method.
I did use a small bench jointer when i was learning the trade and the boss old me i was wrong and insisted i push from the back.
I tried his method as I thought he knew more than i
About the third day of pushind from the back, i was planing a short board.
I ended up with three of my fingers bandaged for quite a few days.
I have used jointers since, but have gone back to the way i learned
Hans's way.
Tinker

 

[Bob Gerritsen]

Option A is the way I was taught, the way I use and the way I used to teach my students (did a year of training unemployed people).  I can only speak for Belgium, but that is the way carpenters are learned to use the planer.  

Push stick seem to me cumbersome when planning.  But maybe that's because I've never used them.

Here is a promotional video of Martin machinery, illustrating quiet good how I use the planer.  The safety guard in the video is Suvamatic, and really one of the best I've used.

[flash=200,200]http://youtu.be/1Wls3oH_NYM[/flash]

My reason for always using the method shown in picture B is that I have more control at the end of the cut as I can continue to keep a downward pressure until the very end of the cut. It also stops the temptation to do the last little push of the stock as it goes under the guard with one's fingers.

I find this a remarkable thing to say.  If you want your board to be flat, you don't want to push down in front of the knives "until the very end of the cut".  As soon as a reasonable length is on the aft table you move both hands to put pressure there, that way you can get a flat board.  If you keep pushing on the front table chances are that you lift the piece up that's already past the cutter.  That way you can't get your board flat.
You can see it quiet well in the video to.  If the board was even 2m longer I would move my hands at the same time, maybe a little later, but certainly not at the end, and feed the rest of the board from the aft table.

Hans

I'm with Hans in this, got my education in the Netherlands which probably explains that.

In short, when planing, I feed the wood to the cutters obviously starting on the infeed table but as soon as there is enough 'meat' on the outfeed I transfer both hands (one at a time) to that side and keep pressure there. This is using the guard as in pic A. I would then have the square guide as far to the right as possible, making it easy to use the full width of the blades when planing several pieces. This helps to keep the blades evenly sharp. Method B would, in my view, give you a partially dull blade over time unless you move the square guide but that could affect the squareness of the guide, depending on how it is fixed.

I do use method B but solely for squaring the sides after planing the widest side. So generally, I leave the square guide to the right/back and adjust the guard to the job at hand. And pressure is kept on the outfeed table as soon as this is possible, as Hans said, I was thought this is the only way to get a flat surface. I don't use any jigs or sticks, I simply make sure my hands are well clear of the cutters. If this turns out to become rather difficult, I would probably conclude the wood is too short and it goes in the fire wood bin. Never have I had any tricky situations in well over 15 years of using planers. To be honest, I don't see how when this type of guard is properly installed and adjusted and one uses moderate pressure. Of course this changes when the blades are too dull or one tries to plane to much at once and too much pressure is needed to push the wood but I'm sure this is not the case with you Peter.

In all honesty and I'm certainly not trying to be tough or cool about this but I've tried using jigs or sticks when pushing the wood but I feel much more comfortable and in charge not using them.

This is interesting though, I'm going to try out some different methods next time just to see what the deal is.

cheers, Bob.

 

[Tinker]

I recently was told (by mine personal health enforcement officer >SWMBO

 

[RONWEN]

Perhaps we should all write to the manufacturers of our various machines and to the Health and Safety people in our own countries and tell them what we think.

Peter

I've dealt with our governing safety agency (OSHA) numerous times over my career and one of the first lessons to be learned is their printed regulations are always correct.  The second lesson is they are never "not-correct"...  [embarassed]