Tayler_mann
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I can suggest only one things. Spend the money one time and never again on a hammer joiner planer and be done with it.
Planer upgrade suggestions
- Thread starter humantorch
- Start date
Cheese
Member
jacko9 said:
[member=8318]jacko9[/member]
How bad is the scalloped finish?
Any pictures?
Then what grit level do you start with to sand the finish?
I'm real curious because I was going to order and install a Shelix on my DW 735. The standard blades go away real quick. Also trying to eliminate some of the screaming.
Was also going to convert the Powermatic when I find one.
Cheese said:
I'll try to get some pictures later today or tomorrow. Sanding it out depends on the wood milled but, mostly I have to sand at 120 - 150 grit to remove the scalloped marks. I mentioned this to the Byrd folks and they told me that is the finish that I can expect. I like everything else about the cutter head but I don't like being forced to sand or hand plane after milling. If I had to guess I'd say that the peak to peak "ripple or scallop" is on the order of 0.1mm.
Jack
Jack
Cheese
Member
jacko9 said:
So at .004" (.1mm) you can feel it as well as see it. [crying] [sad] [crying]
rvieceli
Member
Cheese said:
there have been scientific studies that show that people can feel ridges that are 13 nanometers high. A nanometer is a billionth of a meter. A sheet of paper is about 100,000 nanometers thick.
WarnerConstCo.
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This is why i like straight knives in a planer tbat has a grinder set up with the jointing stone.
Perfect finish.
Perfect finish.
I attempted to take some pictures of the surface roughness attached. The wood is straight grain white oak with very fine planer cuts per pass. I tilted the board at about a 15 degree angle to get the contrast for the pictures. I also hit the surface with a sanding block with 150 grit very lightly to see if I could enhance the contrast.
While I don't like the surface finish, milling hard woods like rosewood, teak, hard maple, ribbon grained mahogany, etc is a lot easier with the spiral cutter head. However, I do have solid carbide straight blades on my 8" wide Poitras Jointer and the finish there is perfect.
Jack
While I don't like the surface finish, milling hard woods like rosewood, teak, hard maple, ribbon grained mahogany, etc is a lot easier with the spiral cutter head. However, I do have solid carbide straight blades on my 8" wide Poitras Jointer and the finish there is perfect.
Jack
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Cheese
Member
jacko9 said:
Thanks for the pictures. It seems to be a subtle, yet at the same time a not so subtle condition. Sanding would definitely be in order. The largest problem I have with the DW 735 using standard blades on normal wood is that it leaves knife marks along the way and I have to remove them from the finished surface. This appears to also be the case with the Shelix, they're just a different type of knife mark. [eek]
Is there any tear-out on figured woods such as birds eye maple or quilted maple? The elimination of such would be a big plus for the Shelix and could be the saving grace for the conversion.
Cheese said:
I have a Jet 8" jointer with a helical head (not Shelix). There are a few less of the square carbide knives and the pattern is different than the Shelix. There are some slight scallops but really don't seem to be noticeable. My Dewalt 735 has steel knives and the finish is great but, of course, the knives do get nicked over time and then there are the telltale ridges along the length of the board. My understanding is that all helical heads leave scallops but that they are not supposed to be so deep that they cannot easily be sanded away. I never finish a project without sanding anyway so, whether it is the nicks from the steel Dewalt knives or the slight scallops from my Jet Helical Head jointer, getting rid of them is just part of the regular finish process for a project. I've never done this type of work in production so maybe that is why it isn't a problem for a hobby woodworker like me.
junk731
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RLJ-Atl said:
The scallops your discussing are a problem on most insert cutterheads and is more prominent as the diameter of the cutter goes down in diameter and number of cutters used and that's true of most brands. Felder seems to be the only company that has eliminated the problem with their Silentpower head design. For the record I do not use a Felder Silentpower cutter machine and prefer a straight knife machine like Darcy.
John
Cheese
Member
[member=19734]grbmds[/member]
Thanks for the info. Thinking about it, it makes sense that because the knife edge is not one continuous piece, but is produced from a series of overlapping inserts, it will never cut to the level of uniformity that a straight knife will.
Now taking into consideration the possibility of varying dimensions on the inserts, the insert pockets, the location of each pocket and the insert cutter head itself, the .004" of scallop mentioned before, could be considered quite reasonable.
[member=4907]kcufstoidi[/member]
Interesting info on the Felder, are you familiar with how the Silentpower differs from the helical head or Shelix head system?
Thanks for the info. Thinking about it, it makes sense that because the knife edge is not one continuous piece, but is produced from a series of overlapping inserts, it will never cut to the level of uniformity that a straight knife will.
Now taking into consideration the possibility of varying dimensions on the inserts, the insert pockets, the location of each pocket and the insert cutter head itself, the .004" of scallop mentioned before, could be considered quite reasonable.
[member=4907]kcufstoidi[/member]
Interesting info on the Felder, are you familiar with how the Silentpower differs from the helical head or Shelix head system?
junk731
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These articles can tell you better then I. I have used the Hammer A3-31 and Felder AD941 and found them both to be a nice machine with the larger head on the Felder giving a better cut then the A3-31 but that is truely splitting hairs at this level of machine. While I do woodworking fulltime I personally can't justify upgrading my AD951 to the Silentpower version. You should really understand the lifespan characteristics of a carbide edge compared to M42 steel knives before deciding on the machine you want. There are many pros and cons to both materials especially when planing.
http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/57340/new-felderhammer-segmented-cutterhead-might-be-best-on-market
http://fpartner2009.felder-group.com/files/pressreports/testbericht_silentpower_bm_mai2013_web_gesperrt.pdf
John
http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/57340/new-felderhammer-segmented-cutterhead-might-be-best-on-market
http://fpartner2009.felder-group.com/files/pressreports/testbericht_silentpower_bm_mai2013_web_gesperrt.pdf
John
WarnerConstCo.
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I think the best three insert/heical heads on the market now are,
Hermance, Newman/whitney and the Gladu (think its still available).
Hermance, Newman/whitney and the Gladu (think its still available).
Jaybolishes
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I got the Grizzly GO453z because like you I wanted to upgrade to a bigger planer and I didn't want to spend a lot of money. I made a 20' long extension cord and with its mobile base I can use anywhere in the shop. This planer uses German carbide blades and they call it a spiral cutter. The finish it leaves requires hardly any sanding and I'd say the sanding is only to take out the very tiny marks from the feed rollers. The sanding was much more involved with my previous straight blade planer. The four sided cutters are very easy to change and you get four sides. The longevity of these carbide blades is impressive. IF you happen to hit a rock or a nail, you only need to turn the few cutters affected, not change out the whole cutter head. Its selling a little more now than what I paid but it was the best $1600 I've spent in a while.
i actually just picked up the 735 with table and stand this weekend. Most of my assembly time was spent putting the stand together. First time using a planer ever for me. I planed 8/4 Walnut that i cut up in 3/4 widths. I was quite surprised, to me came out smooth as glass. I was expecting snipe and all from what I read on the net. If any there, it was very little. I am very happy with it and it doesnt take up alot of space. I guess for the price of the Shelix head I can buy 8 sets of blades. I am not a pro so I expect will last a long time. I watched some of the videos on you tube for the install as I thought about the blades from all the hype. I decided, based on what I observed today, not to purchase and install the shelix. I looked at more expensive planers and didnt want to deal with the weight.
roblg3
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One consideration many hobbyists don't consider is that a business can depreciate their equipment allowing a few years use as you build the available funds to upgrade at a later date. It takes some of the sting out of having to make 2 purchases. If you can afford a grizzly now knowing the longevity is less than a felder, but depreciate the asset over those years and sell it, it's not such a loss dollars wise, AND you've used the thing to make money which should offset any supposed loss. If you have NO planer, then you have no way of earning the cash needed for the "upgrade" should you find it necessary. $.02?
linnlp12 said:
I've owned my 735 for years and, using it as a tool for my woodworking hobby, it has performed well. I believe you are absolutely correct about the steel knives. I've found that I get a long life from them. Since they can be staggered a tiny bit, I can sometimes squeeze extra life out of each side by offsetting the nicks. Buying them in packages of 2 sets generally saves some money also. So, for a hobbyist, I think the 735 makes sense. I think you won't regret your decision.
