Planex for popcorn ceiling...dust extractor vs. shopvac?

[philiclese]

Need to remove popcorn in two houses. I tried wetting and scraping...too messy for occupied houses- ended up with heavy dust because no matter how much water and how long I waited some popcorn was still dry under there. Also some gouging.

Just bought planex, and wondering if the expensive dust extractors are needed, or will a shop vac work OK, even if I have to clean it out every few minutes, and even ruin it eventually...again, just for 2 houses.

Also, if I start with 80 grit to avoid tearing drywall paper, will it take me forever? Or still pretty effective vs. grittier?

Thanks.

 

[jdv84usn]

I would say that the ct will have much better suction and be cleaner overall.

 

[philiclese]

Thanks. I've watched a bunch of vids and most don't show what vac they are using. Maybe I will try with shop vac first.

How about the grit for a rookie? Will I be gouging the ceiling if I use too low a number, and will it take forever if I use a higher grit like 80?

 

[for2na]

You need one that has self cleaning function, there are options from festool, dewalt, fein and I think even Bosch makes one. Regular vacuum is gonna clog so quickly you'll be cleaning it more often then sanding that texture. Guess you can use one of those Oneida cyclones before regular vacuum and it may work. For sanding paper I use 80 and on painted texture 60.

 

[philiclese]

Thanks! Think as a rookie do you think I will be doing lots of gouging with 80? (its unpainted).

Also, realistically how often would you guess I will I have to clean out regular shop vac...every 5 minutes? Maybe I wouldn't mind the breaks...

 

[for2na]

Thanks! Think as a rookie do you think I will be doing lots of gouging with 80? (its unpainted).

Also, realistically how often would you guess I will I have to clean out regular shop vac...every 5 minutes? Maybe I wouldn't mind the breaks...

You'll make few gauges on the beginning until you figure it out. the pressure, speed how fast you move, are you holding planex in hands only or you got the harness for it as well that's all gonna effect it. When I use to use regular vacuum with my Porter Cable sander I had to stop every 2-3 minutes to shake the bag to get suction back up. I was using Ridgid vacuum with hepa filter and bag in it. But before you start sanding get that texture tested for asbestos, you don't want to contaminate whole house, it can get expensive very quickly. I'm doing ceilings on and off for last 16 years and no mater how careful am I there is always some things that needs to be touched up.

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[philiclese]

Thanks again. Had it tested for asbestos, as did some neighbors. Built in 88.

 

[Paul G]

Shop vac with hepa+Dust Deputy= great drywall dust collecting. Put them both on a furniture dolly together and it moves right along. Ugly but works well with mi ridgid sanders on drywall, as well as the table saw dust collecting.

 

[philiclese]

Thanks. I may just try with regular shop vac and kick it every few minutes to prevent clogging. Only doing 2 homes. Although I'm heading over to festool dealer today so they may end up selling me a 36 dust extractor, since I'm easily persuaded....will be on ebay in a month or two when I'm done lol.

Do you think it will require sponging off remaining dust that's adhering to ceiling before painting with water based ceiling paint, or does vacuum really get all the dust off?

 

[Paul G]

That fine dust will clog it faster than you think, and kicking it won't do much to clear the shopvac filter. If you go the 36 route get the AC version designed for Planex use.

After popcorn removal I've always had joint mud work to do, the popcorn hides a multitude of shoddy work and the people who did it originally knew it. If you want nice smooth ceilings expect to need to do the same. Also yes I vac the entire ceiling before priming, and I often then once I have the all white surface find a few places that need some more mud work and spot prime. Then finally get the finish paint on.

 

[philiclese]

Took your advice...ordered a Dust Deputy, with bucket already attached (vs. DIY for half price), for my rigid vac. 100 bucks plus 20 for overnight. Thanks.

One last question if you dont mind...would 120 grit be too rough a finish for painting? Would I have to use more like 220 or 240 to get a smooth enough finish? Was at my festool dealer today (long drive) and they only had 80 and 120 and then much higher numbers over 300...should I go back and get that? Or will I be down to drywall paper after using the coarser grit anyway when removing heavy popcorn, so nothing left to finish sand? Thanks.

 

[JimD]

I have only scraped popcorn and only in this house.  I have two large rooms done so far.  My best setup is to hold a cheap plastic container from Walmart with a metal handle screwed to it in one hand and the scraper, 4 or 6 inch in the other.  I catch most of what comes off in the plastic container I empty into a trash can when I need a break.  I bought one of the special scrapers that incorporates a plastic bag.  It works if you tape the bag to the scraper but you can't see the blade when you are using it.  I ding the drywall more with it.  I just finished the second big room today.  After scraping, I still need to sand and just used a regular woodworking sander.  Not a great setup but worked.  I used 220 grit.  I wouldn't use coarser than 150. 

I tried sanding small areas of popcorn I missed, however, and found the 220 didn't remove it easily at all.  it works fine on drywall mud but not popcorn.  I would think you would need to use 80 grit or so to get most of the popcorn off and then finish with 150 or 220.  But I've never used a planex so I really do not know.

I think two houses of popcorn will be a lot of work regardless of how you do it.  I have to do a room at a time.  A better sander would help at that stage but scraping is hard work. 

 

[Paul G]

I've done 60 grit on hot mud using my 6" orbital, if rolling primer and paint it was fine. 120 even better. The planex may be different though. I tried one and returned it because it was hard to not tear into the paper or gouge the mud and was really hard to manage on the vaulted ceilings here. I hope you have better success with it than I did, some folks seem to get great results with it.

 

[philiclese]

OK, thx. I'm OK with some torn paper, but not too much, in exchange for almost no dust.

 

[Saskataper]

Dust Deputy was the right decision, thats my vid up there sanding a popcorn ceiling about 4 years ago, that texture clogged my 36AC pretty quick, the combination of paper fibre and large texture particles get wedged in the pleats. A dust deputy gets nearly everything, for texture I use the ultimate in combination with my AutoClean.
That was a lightly painted ceiling where I used 80 grit brilliant 2 paper which turned out pretty well, same damage to the paper and I had to re coat the joints which is the minimum you need to do when removing popcorn.
Every popcorn ceiling is different, some come down super fast and clean while others take grinding with 24 grit just to knock down the high points so you can skim the whole ceiling.
For finish sanding it depends on what compound your using, go about 60 higher than you'd use for pole sanding. 180 or 220 are the most popular id say, 240 if its really soft compound.

if your doing entire houses you need the harness, no question.

 

[philiclese]

Thanks Saskataper. I just did about 10 sq feet to test in laundry room, using dust deputy and 80 grit. Way harder than I expected and a lot of dust escaped. I think maybe because I used my regular home vacuum hose from dust deputy to the planex sander, although I dont think diameter is much smaller than the festool hose. Needed duct tape since they have proprietary connnector I see.  When I hold my hand to disk, covering all little holes in disk, and on max suction it doesnt feel that strong...I might go with the festool mini or midi which comes with a hose with their connector..dont want to spend 900 for the self cleaning one.  Gotta get this to give off less dust. I know without dust deputy on the mini or midi I will be emptying and kicking the extractor a lot...oh well. Also may have to go down to 60 grit from 80...popcorn was stubborn, though I don't think painted. Gotta order today to avoid price increase....

 

[Saskataper]

the hose makes a big difference, you need a 36mm the mini/midi come with the new tapered hose which isn't enough (I've tried) I think ridgid makes a good hose that fits. The green antistatic festool 36mm is horrible in my opinion, kinks really easily. The Planex hose that comes with the Autoclean is amazing.
Popcorn sanding creates a ridiculous amount of dust, you can pull over 100lbs worth off a few hundred feet of ceiling, make sure the planex is set to perimeter suction and have a bin nearby to dump out the head from time to time as lots of material builds up in there.

 

[Paul G]

Thanks Saskataper. I just did about 10 sq feet to test in laundry room, using dust deputy and 80 grit. Way harder than I expected and a lot of dust escaped. I think maybe because I used my regular home vacuum hose from dust deputy to the planex sander, although I dont think diameter is much smaller than the festool hose. Needed duct tape since they have proprietary connnector I see.  When I hold my hand to disk, covering all little holes in disk, and on max suction it doesnt feel that strong...I might go with the festool mini or midi which comes with a hose with their connector..dont want to spend 900 for the self cleaning one.  Gotta get this to give off less dust. I know without dust deputy on the mini or midi I will be emptying and kicking the extractor a lot...oh well. Also may have to go down to 60 grit from 80...popcorn was stubborn, though I don't think painted. Gotta order today to avoid price increase....

The short time I tried a planex it certainly wasn't dust free, as much as I tried to adjust things it still clouded the room air. In hindsight maybe the unit I had was a dud, other folks have good experiences with them.

 

[philiclese]

Thanks Paul G and Saskataper.  I may have solved the suction problem...my dad is an old ac guy who pointed out to me that the longer the hose the less the suction at far end. So with the dust deputy, the extra 10 feet of hose to it, plus running it thru the extra bucket of the dust deputy, was costing me a lot of suction. I just ran it straight from my 50 dollar Rigid shopvac to the festool and perfect...WAY more suction. So I am resigned to doing a lot of bag emptying and filter shaking, but I'm in no rush, and will save me 800 bucks vs. their self cleaning extractor. And my initial 10 sq foot test resulted in way less dust on floor. Thanks again guys.