Planning outdoor kitchen w/brick oven - looking for suggestions

[rmwarren]

Title says it all - I got senior management approval to build a wood fired oven next year and want to expand it to include some storage and other cooking/prep areas. I have about 4' by 12' to use and it will be free-standing and totally exposed to the elements. Generally this space where the egg and grill are now sitting, backing up to the fence.

[attachthumb=#]

We also host an annual "CRIB-FEST" (Crabs and Ribs) and I may include a permanent place for the burner and pot.

[attachthumb=#]

(My FIL cooking crabs in the same area the year before we added the boardwalk)

Being on the coast we get wicked sideways rains, 20-40 MPH is not uncommon in all seasons. One of my primary questions is how to design cabinets with drawers and doors and try to make them generally waterproof?

In addition to the brick oven I plan to include a nest for a BGE, storage for grilling implements, wood, charcoal and a worktop for prepping food. I may even toss in an old-style icebox to keep ingredients (and libations) in for a day of cooking.

Picture family-style cooks with everyone making their own pizza (room to spread out dough and add ingredients) and long/slow cooks for BBQ with a lounging area nearby. Not everything needs to be permanent, I can use folding tables form some stuff. The total boardwalk area is about 12' by 24', we will keep most of it open for other uses like my outside shop.

Let your imagination go wild, I am only going to do this once and plan to have fun with it!

RMW

 

[jmbfestool]

For draws etc I would use stainless and you can get stainless runners.  So you wouldn't have to worry about it being totally weather proof to much just create lips, over hangs, etc to stop driving rain getting into the draws which can be designed into your project when cladding with wood etc.

 

[rmwarren]

For draws etc I would use stainless and you can get stainless runners.  So you wouldn't have to worry about it being totally weather proof to much just create lips, over hangs, etc to stop driving rain getting into the draws which can be designed into your project when cladding with wood etc.

That's what I am having trouble figuring out JMB. Using drawers as an example, how do you add a lip or overhang to each one to stop wind driven rain from being forced in?

Or is that too much to expect?

RMW

 

[Sparktrician]

Why not use a fine-mesh stainless steel screening for the drawer bottoms so that if anything blows in, it flows back out? 

 

[Wooden Skye]

I would think you could use steel studs with cement board for the carcass and then face with a stone veneer, and layout the veneer so that you create a lip above the doors.  I have never built something like this, so really this idea may be far fetched and impossible.

 

[peter halle]

First,  great project and I look forward to hearing more about this.  Second, if you are planning on doing a brick oven in that area you need to do some research.  Usually due to the weight they are not built on a deck.  Now if you have overbuilt the framing for your deck then I apologize.

For your doors, if you want them to be rain proof you will need to have a positive latching mechanism.  In addition to that you could do overlay doors with weatherstripping that is slightly thicker than a cabinet bumper or the gap between the door and the frame (hinge dependent).

An overhang on the countertop that projects further than the doors with a cove (use a core box router bit) on the underside of the overhang will help keep water away from your doors.

I offer these as someone who built an outdoor cabinet years ago and then has learned thru experience.

Peter

 

[rvieceli]

Richard - I'm not sure if you have found these folks yet but they have a great product and support.

www.fornobravo.com

They make finished ovens, DIY kits and parts and plans. Their website has a very active forum where members are happy to help with ideas and techniques for your project.

 

[rmwarren]

First,  great project and I look forward to hearing more about this.  Second, if you are planning on doing a brick oven in that area you need to do some research.  Usually due to the weight they are not built on a deck.  Now if you have overbuilt the framing for your deck then I apologize.

For your doors, if you want them to be rain proof you will need to have a positive latching mechanism.  In addition to that you could do overlay doors with weatherstripping that is slightly thicker than a cabinet bumper or the gap between the door and the frame (hinge dependent).

An overhang on the countertop that projects further than the doors with a cove (use a core box router bit) on the underside of the overhang will help keep water away from your doors.

I offer these as someone who built an outdoor cabinet years ago and then has learned thru experience.

Peter

Peter, to clarify I will take out a section of the boardwalk and pour a proper foundation for the oven. At a guess it will weigh in north of a ton.

Not familiar with the core box bit, I will have to research that. I like the idea of positive seal on the drawers, like truck body doors I guess.

Thanks.

RMW

 

[rmwarren]

Richard - I'm not sure if you have found these folks yet but they have a great product and support.

www.fornobravo.com

They make finished ovens, DIY kits and parts and plans. Their website has a very active forum where members are happy to help with ideas and techniques for your project.

I am debating a forno bravo kit versus doing it the hard way. A friend did one of masonry and vermiculite that works great so I have someone to guide me a bit.

RMW

 

[Rick Christopherson]

15 years ago I wanted an outdoor grilling area that I could use year round and in either rain or snow. When I heard about a friend that was getting rid of a 12 foot double sliding glass door, I took both of the fixed side lights. I used one glass panel as the rear wall above the counter and one as the rear roof. The front roof is cedar shake.

I like the fact that I can walk out there to cook even when it is raining, yet it still feels wide open. The most important feature is the halogen lighting above the work area. It gets dark pretty early around here in the winter, so having good light is important.

I knew it was a big risk making a solid cherry faceframe cabinet, but it has actually held up quite well for 15 years without even touching it this whole time. It is long over due for refinishing, but I'm pretty happy to get the time out of it that I have.

[attachimg=#]

 

[jmbfestool]

For draws etc I would use stainless and you can get stainless runners.  So you wouldn't have to worry about it being totally weather proof to much just create lips, over hangs, etc to stop driving rain getting into the draws which can be designed into your project when cladding with wood etc.

That's what I am having trouble figuring out JMB. Using drawers as an example, how do you add a lip or overhang to each one to stop wind driven rain from being forced in?

Or is that too much to expect?

RMW

It's not to difficult to design and make the draws and doors storm proof the difficult part is the make sure it all looks right and doesn't spoil your look you are trying to create.

I would always have some little draining holes in each cupboard and draws to let water out. 

Making lips, overhangs and router grooves to make drips would be a good start at waterproofing.

I personally would add to it and use rubber seals and rebates in the frames and every door and draw with a locking method.

Here is one of the windows me and my mate made and fitted.

I know its a bit over board these windows are double rebated and double sealed storm proof but what I'm showing is you can create smaller scale on your doors and draws having a framed affect look.
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[jmbfestool]

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[SMJoinery]

Another "out of the box" solution may be to build cabinets capable of living outside in terms of humidity etc but give the additional protection from the elements by fitting a tambour screen in front.
A while ago we did a lot of R&D for a client who wanted an external kitchen installed with wood fired pizza oven etc
We discovered that you can get aluminium, Polymer or even glass tambour (roller shutter) style slats made which can be rolled up out of the way into cabinets when not needed but drawn down in extreme weather etc.
I think these guys had a solution for what we needed...http://www.rehau.com/US_en/furniture-cabinetry-and-surface-edging/Tambour-Doors/
The project went ahead with a different option which was a fixed roof and bifold doors to give an inside outside room feel.

The pizza oven ended up at 600kg in weight when delivered and needed its own brick base to support.

Also there is another thread here on topic of materials to use in similar environment. I think it was started by one of the Aussie members here is the link http://festoolownersgroup.com/building-materials/what-cabinet-carcass-materials-for-outdoor-kitchens/
Hope it helps.
Merry Xmas
Scott

 

[rmwarren]

15 years ago I wanted an outdoor grilling area that I could use year round and in either rain or snow. When I heard about a friend that was getting rid of a 12 foot double sliding glass door, I took both of the fixed side lights. I used one glass panel as the rear wall above the counter and one as the rear roof. The front roof is cedar shake.

I like the fact that I can walk out there to cook even when it is raining, yet it still feels wide open. The most important feature is the halogen lighting above the work area. It gets dark pretty early around here in the winter, so having good light is important.

I knew it was a big risk making a solid cherry faceframe cabinet, but it has actually held up quite well for 15 years without even touching it this whole time. It is long over due for refinishing, but I'm pretty happy to get the time out of it that I have.

[attachimg=#]

The cherry does not look that old, it really held up to the elements. Looks great.

I am considering a backstop and roof partly to stop wind from interfering with cooking but also to keep rain off me. If we go that route we will want it to also act as visual screening, our rear neighbor is a bit of an eyesore.

Probably time to model it in Sketchup.

Thanks for the suggestions.

RMW

 

[rmwarren]

For draws etc I would use stainless and you can get stainless runners.  So you wouldn't have to worry about it being totally weather proof to much just create lips, over hangs, etc to stop driving rain getting into the draws which can be designed into your project when cladding with wood etc.

That's what I am having trouble figuring out JMB. Using drawers as an example, how do you add a lip or overhang to each one to stop wind driven rain from being forced in?

Or is that too much to expect?

RMW

It's not to difficult to design and make the draws and doors storm proof the difficult part is the make sure it all looks right and doesn't spoil your look you are trying to create.

I would always have some little draining holes in each cupboard and draws to let water out. 

Making lips, overhangs and router grooves to make drips would be a good start at waterproofing.

I personally would add to it and use rubber seals and rebates in the frames and every door and draw with a locking method.

Here is one of the windows me and my mate made and fitted.

I know its a bit over board these windows are double rebated and double sealed storm proof but what I'm showing is you can create smaller scale on your doors and draws having a framed affect look.
[attachimg=#]

Nice job on the windows. I like the idea of the double rebate and weatherstrip.

RMW

 

[rmwarren]

I would think you could use steel studs with cement board for the carcass and then face with a stone veneer, and layout the veneer so that you create a lip above the doors.  I have never built something like this, so really this idea may be far fetched and impossible.

That is the overall look I am aiming for. If I go the oven kit route then a stud framework with either stucco/stone or a combination would work great. It also keeps the weight down a bit.

The back side can be pretty rough since no one will ever see it, the front and side might be stone/stucco with wooden inset doors. That would be an overall appearance we would like.

RMW

 

[Kev]

I've been looking at a similar project. I've shortlisted the materials to be granite, stainless steel and Plaspanel (http://www.plaspanel.com.au).

Not sure about door and drawer fronts yet - thick glass could be an option.

 

[rizzoa13]

If you need help with this project Richard let me know. I live just down the pike and did a very similar project for my fireplace surround. (Metal frame, Durock and stone veneer) I also did an arched front so could help you with the domed inside of your pizza oven which is probably the most daunting part.

 

[rmwarren]

If you need help with this project Richard let me know. I live just down the pike and did a very similar project for my fireplace surround. (Metal frame, Durock and stone veneer) I also did an arched front so could help you with the domed inside of your pizza oven which is probably the most daunting part.

Thanks for the offer, I will take you up on it. Would be nice to meet a fellow Fogger nearby.

I am really tempted to go the FB kit route, it kills me to spend $2,500 on it the time saving and reduction in aggravation is probably worth it.

Reach out if you are ever on Brig and perhaps we can meet up.

RMW