plywood and painting for window seat

[dicktill]

Seth: Thanks for the "magic" and the explanation on MDO. Where do you buy that in the Finger Lakes?

Everyone: Still looking for advice on my previous finishing/painting questions, please.  [scratch chin]

 

[tjbnwi]

The milk paint is a flat finish. Use GF Polycrylic, as a top coat, it is a brush compatible product.

You may need to get some dye to add the milk paint yourself to get the match you need. If you need to go a little more "gray", try a little bit of black ink from an ink jet printer. The colors work also.

Use the MDO,  it paints very well.

Tom

 

[semenza]

Seth: Thanks for the "magic" and the explanation on MDO. Where do you buy that in the Finger Lakes?

Everyone: Still looking for advice on my previous finishing/painting questions, please.  [scratch chin]

I have my hard wood supplier  order it for me.  Probably 3 - 4 hrs from you. Must be some place closer to you that will order sheet goods.

Seth

 

[bhendrix]

I just spoke with Tom at General Finishes.  He said the base formula for the milk paint is the same base formula for the Exterior 450.  

Add 20% Exterior 450 gloss to the Milk paint for a satin sheen like Ben Moore Satin Impervo.  Adding more than 20% increases the sheen.

If you call GF, you can get a color match to any manufacturer's colors.  One quart minimum.  They will ship directly from GF if you don't have a distributor near you.

Another source for General Finishes' products is from Homestead Finishing Products in Cleveland, OH

 

[dicktill]

[thanks] a bunch Bill!

Do you have a phone number and/or e-mail address for Tom at GF?

Regards, Dick

 

[bhendrix]

General Finishes - 800-783-6050

http://www.generalfinishes.com/

 

[dicktill]

Thanks again Bill.

waho609 and Seth: Am I correct in assuming that both sides are good? Because there is no grain, can I nest the individual pieces to maximize useage? About how much should I expect to pay for a 4x8 sheet of 3/4"?

Regards, Dick

 

[semenza]

Thanks again Bill.

waho609 and Seth: Am I correct in assuming that both sides are good? Because there is no grain, can I nest the individual pieces to maximize useage? About how much should I expect to pay for a 4x8 sheet of 3/4"?

Regards, Dick

Yes, both sides good. Unless you get paper on one side only. When you order be sure to specify just in case. I think when I asked about price  the difference was only $5.00.  I just get it on both sides so that I can use it for any part  I want.

I think it was  about $65 when I got some  in January.

Seth

 

[dicktill]

An update on this slow moving project:

I ordered 6 sheets of 3/4" double-sided MDO from my local lumber company for a whopping $75 per sheet. They do stock 3/4" single-sided MDO for only $54 per sheet, and I will need a few of those too.

I did finally get in touch with Tom at General Finishes (he was out of town for awhile), and have ordered a couple of gallons of GF Milk Paint modified to match "Pella White", and a couple of gallons of GF satin EF PolyAcrylic Water Base Top Coat (to get a 33% sheen). They know what "Pella White" is since they make up some of this paint for others (maybe the factory?). He recommended just using the Milk Paint "straight", and then using a couple of coats of Top Coat over it. He said that this Top Coat is very brushable, and would "lay down" nicely even for me (especially if I use a paint pad). Here's the steps he recommended:
1) Prime with Zinsser Bullseye 123 water-based primer; wait at least overnight, scuff, then
2) Paint with GF Milk Paint; wait 3 days if possible, scuff, then
3) Finish with EF PolyAcrylic Water Base Top Coat; wait a few hours, scuff, then
4) Finish with EF PolyAcrylic Water Base Top Coat; wait a day if possible  [unsure] (that means I'm unsure if I can restrain myself that long [wink] ), then
5) ENJOY!  [big grin]  (I think that means taking a nap on it; it'll be 30x78"!)

Any further comments/advice would be appreciated.

 

[waho6o9]

You've received good advice IMHO.

I would practice on some scraps, save the recipes for each, and find out
which one works best for you.

Personally, I like two coats of Zenisser premier. Time permitting of course.

You're going to love how the MDO paints up.

Good call and have fun.

 

[tiralie]

You've received good advice IMHO.

I would practice on some scraps, save the recipes for each, and find out
which one works best for you.

Personally, I like two coats of Zenisser premier. Time permitting of course.

You're going to love how the MDO paints up.

Good call and have fun.

Agreed. Looks like a good recipe and make a decent sized sample 2'x2' so you know what you want the finish to look like when you are done.
Have you got a drawing of the bench/case?
Tim

 

[dicktill]

You've received good advice IMHO.

I would practice on some scraps, save the recipes for each, and find out which one works best for you.

Personally, I like two coats of Zenisser premier. Time permitting of course.

You're going to love how the MDO paints up.

Good call and have fun.

Agreed. Looks like a good recipe and make a decent sized sample 2'x2' so you know what you want the finish to look like when you are done.
Have you got a drawing of the bench/case?
Tim

Thanks for the advice and encouragement guys. I don't have a nice 3D drawing I can post, but if you look at the photo on my original post, it will be similar. My window is a triple casement instead of double, and so there will be three small shelves above (side by side) and three below instead of two. Also it will be about 78" long, so I can take a nap on it (if my wife and cats let me). I plan to use my LR-32 and l-o-n-g holey rail to make the side shelves adjustable. Just received the paint yesterday, so I'll have the lumber yard deliver the MDO this week and start playing.

Still haven't figured out for sure how to support "the-top-of-the-box", but recently ordered a "V-Groove Face Frame Joining" router bit along with a "Square Edge 3/16" Beading" router bit from Eagle America (their P/N 100-7925 for the set). I'm thinking of running the vertical face boards all the way to the bottom of "the-top-of-the-box", and have a dado on the back of it to support "the-top-of-the-box". (Sorry, I'm new to all this, so don't know the correct terms.) And also to have dado's on the top side of "the-top-of-the-box" into which the vertical dividers will be glued. Advice here would certainly be welcomed!

Regards, Dick

 

[tiralie]

Still haven't figured out for sure how to support "the-top-of-the-box", but recently ordered a "V-Groove Face Frame Joining" router bit along with a "Square Edge 3/16" Beading" router bit from Eagle America (their P/N 100-7925 for the set). I'm thinking of running the vertical face boards all the way to the bottom of "the-top-of-the-box", and have a dado on the back of it to support "the-top-of-the-box". (Sorry, I'm new to all this, so don't know the correct terms.) And also to have dado's on the top side of "the-top-of-the-box" into which the vertical dividers will be glued. Advice here would certainly be welcomed!

Dick:
I was wondering how you were doing on this project?
I have been a bit busy to respond to your questions.
Without a drawing it's difficult to understand your proposed construction.
You will definitely need to have a back (dado-ed etc.) on the case that spans the 78" space to create enough strength to span that length. Like a torsion box, the back will add strength and prevent sagging of the top case.
If you haven't already built this, can you post a quick pencil drawing?
Tim

 

[dicktill]

Still haven't figured out for sure how to support "the-top-of-the-box", but recently ordered a "V-Groove Face Frame Joining" router bit along with a "Square Edge 3/16" Beading" router bit from Eagle America (their P/N 100-7925 for the set). I'm thinking of running the vertical face boards all the way to the bottom of "the-top-of-the-box", and have a dado on the back of it to support "the-top-of-the-box". (Sorry, I'm new to all this, so don't know the correct terms.) And also to have dado's on the top side of "the-top-of-the-box" into which the vertical dividers will be glued. Advice here would certainly be welcomed!

Dick:
I was wondering how you were doing on this project?
I have been a bit busy to respond to your questions.
Without a drawing it's difficult to understand your proposed construction.
You will definitely need to have a back (dado-ed etc.) on the case that spans the 78" space to create enough strength to span that length. Like a torsion box, the back will add strength and prevent sagging of the top case.
If you haven't already built this, can you post a quick pencil drawing?
Tim

Hi Tim,

Thanks for your interest in this,  and for your advice. The project (like ALL my projects) is going slower than I'd like, partially because it is part of a larger (massive?) house remodeling job, which also includes a small half-bath next to the window seat, and so there is plumbing, heating, and wiring also involved.  On top of that, I'm slow ...

I have received the MDO and started to cut the main panels. Interesting FYI: the 3/4" MDO is oversized (around 0.760-0.770" thick) rather than undersized like most plywood here.

I'm attaching a few CAD drawings (sorry, no nice 3D stuff).
First one is an overview, front and top views. (face frame not shown)

[attachimg=1]

Second one is larger front view with the dado'd joints circled. (face frame not shown)

[attachimg=2]

Third one is another front view which shows dado's to hold upper shelf uprights. (face frame not shown)

[attachimg=3]

Fourth one shows detail of face frame at an upper shelf upright showing how it helps support "the top of the box".

[attachimg=4]

Appreciate any advice you and others can lend.

Regards, Dick

 

[dicktill]

Progress to report (at last!):

All four uprights plus the top and bottom of the box are cut using a TS-55 plunge saw and guide rails. The bottoms of the uprights have been trimmed to suit the not-so-flat-floor. Dado's have been cut in the two uprights that form the sides of the box, as well as in the top and bottom of the box. And finally, all four uprights have been drilled for the 5mm shelf clips (for the adjustable side shelves) using the LR-32 kit, the OF 1010 router, and the 8' holey rail. WOW, what neat tools!!!!! Perhaps some day (definitely not) I'll be as fast as Kreg.

Advice needed: Should I use Titebond original or construction adhesive (good grief! [eek]) or something else to bond the joints together? The dado's are pretty snug BTW.

Thanks, Dick

 

[tiralie]

Advice needed: Should I use Titebond original or construction adhesive (good grief! [eek]) or something else to bond the joints together? The dado's are pretty snug BTW.

Titebond and/or screws. Don't use construction adhesive unless you want to spend a lot of time cleaning up.

I have received the MDO and started to cut the main panels. Interesting FYI: the 3/4" MDO is oversized (around 0.760-0.770" thick) rather than undersized like most plywood here.

The overlay adds extra thickness.

Appreciate any advice you and others can lend.

Regards, Dick

This is not as simple as it appears.

In the original photo the main supporting beams beside and above the window are approx. + 2" thick, and the walls are flush to the face.

Because of the depth of that seat (approx + 24")  and the span, I would definetly frame out the space around and above the window with 2x2's or 2x4's (1.5"x 3.5") a bulkhead/soffit above the window with 2x4's. I would use 1/4" mdo over the framing for the cabinet cases beside the window. The outside and shelves of the cases, can be the 3/4" mdo. Apply the face frame and done like dinner.

I will see if I can get to a quick Sketchup drawing later.

Tim

Tim

 

[dicktill]

This is not as simple as it appears.

In the original photo the main supporting beams beside and above the window are approx. + 2" thick, and the walls are flush to the face.

Because of the depth of that seat (approx + 24")  and the span, I would definetly frame out the space around and above the window with 2x2's or 2x4's (1.5"x 3.5") a bulkhead/soffit above the window with 2x4's. I would use 1/4" mdo over the framing for the cabinet cases beside the window. The outside and shelves of the cases, can be the 3/4" mdo. Apply the face frame and done like dinner.

I will see if I can get to a quick Sketchup drawing later.

Tim

Thanks Tim.  [thanks]  Please don't spend much time on a Sketchup model for the framing. I knew it needed framing, and am working on this right now. If you look at the top view in the previous drawings, you can see the end view of the vertical 2x4's (which I should have labeled) behind the side shelves. And in the front view, the notes that say "supports behind shelves" means horizontal 2x4's (which again I should have shown in more detail).

Wish me luck ...

 

[semenza]

    On that construction adhesive ...... it won't be good for those joints. Too thick , it will fill in too much space in the joint, and mush out all over the place. Might even make it hard to get the joint together solidly. Tends to stay soft for a  long time. Won't be as good a bond.  Tite Bond  - II or similar.  My favorite is the Cabinet Makers glue from Lee Valley.  It is a bit thicker than Tite Bond which is great on vertical surfaces.

Seth

 

[dicktill]

The window seat project is going well, albeit slowly (photos soon). Other than the adjustable shelves on each side, all the other panels are cut, installed, and painted with the GF Milk Paint that was custom tinted to match the "Pella White", and it looks great. Thanks for all the help so far. The GF satin EF PolyAcrylic Water Base Top Coat will go on early next week, and hopefully we can keep the dreaded brush marks out of that too.

My latest dilemma is building the face frame. I'm going to use "Claymark 1x2 Select Pine" for this, and make it beaded with jack miters. Bought a pair of router bits from Eagle America to do this. My plan was to route a 1/4" deep by ~3/4" wide dado on the backside of each piece of trim, leaving 3/8" on each side of the dado. This is fine for the two main verticals, but the extreme side verticals (that butt up to a wall) will get narrowed from 1-1/2" to 1-1/8"; in other words the dado on the back will really be a rabbet. No problem so far as there is no bead on the outer edges of these, so the width difference is OK. But now I get to the main horizontal trim pieces. There are three ways I can think of to do these:
1) Narrow them down to 1-1/8" so that the top of the trim is flush with the top of the shelf, and makes the dado on the back a rabbet. But this leaves the width of the trim narrower than the mating vertical, and I'm not sure how that will look.
2) Leave them at 1-1/2"  with the dado centered; this leaves a 3/8" lip at the front of the shelf.
3) Leave them at 1-1/2" with the dado moved off-center 3/8", so again it is a rabbet and the top of the trim is flush with the top of the shelf ... BUT now the trim protrudes by 3/4" instead of 3/8" on the bottom.

[thanks]  again for any assistance ...

 

[tiralie]

My latest dilemma is building the face frame. I'm going to use "Claymark 1x2 Select Pine" for this, and make it beaded with jack miters.

If it's not a high traffic area it should be good. I prefer maple over pine or poplar for face frames in high traffic areas. Pine is easily banged up dented, scratched etc. and starts to look really tired quickly.

Bought a pair of router bits from Eagle America to do this. My plan was to route a 1/4" deep by ~3/4" wide dado on the backside of each piece of trim, leaving 3/8" on each side of the dado.

Why? To hide the joint?

This is fine for the two main verticals, but the extreme side verticals (that butt up to a wall) will get narrowed from 1-1/2" to 1-1/8"; in other words the dado on the back will really be a rabbet.

This will also make it easier to scribe to.

1) Narrow them down to 1-1/8" so that the top of the trim is flush with the top of the shelf, and makes the dado on the back a rabbet. But this leaves the width of the trim narrower than the mating vertical, and I'm not sure how that will look.

This will look ok.  When a horizontal line is thinner than a vertical line they can appear equal.

2) Leave them at 1-1/2"  with the dado centered; this leaves a 3/8" lip at the front of the shelf.

I don't like this, but you may. Sometimes there is a reason to have a lip on a shelf.

3) Leave them at 1-1/2" with the dado moved off-center 3/8", so again it is a rabbet and the top of the trim is flush with the top of the shelf ... BUT now the trim protrudes by 3/4" instead of 3/8" on the bottom.

If you want to be on the safe side, I would go with this. You may want to mill your shelf edges with the Collins prep router bit

Tim

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