Polishing Pad Backing Plate (493914)

[Dan Clermont]

What is the main difference between the standard RO-150 FEQ backing plate and the Polishing Pad backing plate (item # 493914)?

Do I need the 493914 if I want to use the hard and soft felt pads (488347 and 488348)

Can I use the above mentioned pads to polish my car?

I am looking for a reason to cross the US border again  ;D

Dan Clermont

 

[iggy07]

I have similar questions. I was confused, and my local Woodcraft was also confused (although the Festool people were not available at the time).

First they had sold me a backing plate for another sander-it had a hub screw instead of the twist-on fitting, so I was hopelessly confused, and didn't even know I had the wrong one. Doh on me; doh on them . .

Next when we looked at the 493914 in the 2007 catalog (page 90), it is described as 6" diameter (145 mm; 9 hole). However, the part in the store, under this #, is NOT 6"in diameter, it is 5", suggesting to me (standing there at the counter) that it (again) is not the right part for my Rotex 150. Also, it has NO HOLES. (Actually, it has 2 small holes that don't go all the way through, and have nothing to do with dust collection.) The part was green, as shown in the catalog.

We finally decided it (probably?) is the right part -- We guessed that it was a smaller diameter so the 6" felt pads overlap 1/2" on each side. As a result, you have a flexible edge that allows you to buff out corners and rounded edges. (Keep in mind; I'm GUESSING here . . . )

Next issue; (page 90), they show the same part # (488347 for both the soft felt (5 pieces) and the hard felt (5 pieces). The catalog should be corrected to show the hard felt # 488348.

Moving to page 94 (#1), we tried to look at the equivalent part for the RO 125 (#492128), to see what the diameter would be. As luck would have it, they did not provide any dimensions here, and the store didn't have one in stock. Following the logic above, I expect the RO 125 polishing pad to be smaller than 5", but it sure would have been nice to confirm this directly.

Next issue: The FOG moderator suggested recently that we all pay close attention to spelling, so searches will be more effective in the future. Just to clarify this whole mess, Dan -- you referred the pad as # 493194. The correct #, from the catalog, AND from my plastic packaging, is 493914. I believe you either transposed the number, OR you obtained yet another bad # from Festool somewhere. If we have any hope for sorting this out, we need to make sure we're talking about the same thing.   

Moving ahead - what do we use them for? I am refurbishing and polishing a fiberglass shower stall, using various Maguiar products. See the excellent thread elsewhere on FOG with lots of details re car detailing (I don't have the link just now). I look forward to applying these techniques to the car as well.

Do NOT mix compounds on the same pad!

Recommendation from elsewhere: Do NOT attempt to clean the felt pads! Allow them to dry in the protection of an un-sealed zip lock bag, then seal them for storage. Do NOT allow them to collect dust, grit, etc. Use a separate pad for each new compound, and label the back of the pad for future reference. (Therefore, you probably want to buy the 5-pack.) To reconstitute later, work new liquid compound into the pad.

Finally, (now I know), do NOT try to wash out the lambs wool polishing pad. The backing stays the same size, but the lambs wool itself shrinks about 25%-30%!  [Nice Pad] --->> [Shriveled Garbage]

Please take my word for it; I barely know what I'm talking about here! If anyone has further comments, corrections, suggestions, I'd love to hear them.

Ed Gallaher

 

[Dan Clark]

The backing plate that you are referrning to is actually 5".  It is made for the 6" pads (sponges) that Festool makes.  There's a lot of confusion around this.

They don't have holes because when using polishing compounds to polish cars you use neither the RO150's vacuum attachment nor the vacuum.  You want the pad to generate heat.  This helps the polishing compound break down and do it's work.  Professional rotary buffers can generate a lot of heat and will repair pretty serious paint defects. 

The Rotex is a bit unique in that you can get about 80-90% of benefit of a pro rotary buffer when in Rotex mode, but with minimal risk.  Then you can switch to RO mode and get a nice final polish.  Nice combo.

I hope this helps.

Dan.

 

[iggy07]

This is helpful to confirm.

Since the size is smaller, some confusion is probably inevitable. However, having it DESCRIBED in the 2007 Festool catalog (page 90) as being SIX INCHES in diameter GUARANTEES there will be confusion!

I did realize that there is no need for vacuum holes for the reasons you describe, but again, the catalog says there are NINE HOLES! More confusion!

Thanks for the info, and for your previous advice on auto detailing.

Ed Gallaher

 

[semenza]

What is the main difference between the standard RO-150 FEQ backing plate and the Polishing Pad backing plate (item # 493914)?

Do I need the 493914 if I want to use the hard and soft felt pads (488347 and 488348)

Can I use the above mentioned pads to polish my car?

I am looking for a reason to cross the US border again  ;D

Dan Clermont

Hi, Dan

      Those border crossing stories in the Junkie thread are incredible!  But by now I would think you would simply buy and have it shipped! It can't be more costly than all of that trouble and driving!

Seth

 

[Dan Clermont]

Hi Seth,

Festool USA is not allowed to ship north of the border!!! Everytime I bring a Festool across the border I pay duty/taxes and sometimes have to sit while they search the car or what have you.

I don't have a criminal record or anything like that.

We have no choice but to buy in the US unless we want to wait 4 weeks and pay another 40% above the US price cause the Canadian distributor ain't that terribly interested in selling to us Canadians nor do they usually have stock

Dan

 

[Eli]

I don't know if it's obvious to anyone but me, but Dan, it seems time to become a Canadian dealer.......

 

[Dan Clermont]

I have already talked to Christian  O about that

Ya know, way back when my buddy and I wanted to be the Canadian distributors. Then we found hafele had the exclusive rights.

Really though, I have been sanding the hardwood floors in my basement and wouldn't you know I could use some more 50 grit. Where the hell am I gonna buy that in Canada? Typically, I pick the stuff up from TimmyC but now I may have to drive the hour and a bit to Bellingham... or I may have to use a hole punch

Dan C

 

[mjchantry]

I'll second the nightmare of dealing with the Canadian distributor of Festool products.

I was able to buy the 150/5 sander from someone on another forum. However, I needed to purchase sanding disks. Fortunately, there is a Hafele distributorship here in town.

I asked what would be the best type to buy, but they don't seem to know the product line at all. Once I decided on 220 and 320 Brilliant, I was told that they didnt' have the 220 in stock, so I ordered the 320 and 400(?), and put an order in for the 220 to be shipped in. I placed the order and they asked me to go for a coffee or something, as it would take 45 minutes to an hour to bring the stock up to the front.

I came back later to pick up my purchases, but when I opened the box at work the next morning, I found they had given me the 5" disks - not the 6". I called back and had to leave a message for the sales desk. They said they would check the stock and call me back in 15 minutes. An hour later, and still no call. Finally, after numerous calls from me, I was able to talk to the original saleman - 6 hours later.

So it turns out that they did have the 220 and 320 Brilliant in 6", but I wouldn't be able to get it until the following morning. So, I went back the next day. The items had not been picked yet. It took 15 minutes or so, but they finally brought them up. I returned my 5" disks, canceled the special order, and headed in to work.

As of yesterday, my credit card has been billed for the 5", the special order 5", and the 6". No refunds as yet.

As well, the 6" disks ended up costing me about $52 per box of $100. That equals about $50US. In comparison, Bob Marino sells the same thing for $32US.

For me, the closest place to buy is about a 20 hour round trip. Anything that was 10 hours or less, and I'd choose it every time.

Dan, the next time you are doing a trip, let me know. If I'm in the market, I'd be more than willing to pay for the service.

Matt Chantry
Calgary, AB

I came back an hour later, pick

 

[semenza]

Hi Seth,

Festool USA is not allowed to ship north of the border!!! Everytime I bring a Festool across the border I pay duty/taxes and sometimes have to sit while they search the car or what have you.

I don't have a criminal record or anything like that.

We have no choice but to buy in the US unless we want to wait 4 weeks and pay another 40% above the US price cause the Canadian distributor ain't that terribly interested in selling to us Canadians nor do they usually have stock

Dan

Hi,

    Yes, I realise that Festool USA and dealers can't ship to Canada. But it seems that getting the used stuff shipped shouldn't be a problem.  I guess the real thing is that Festool needs to "take care of" Hafele.

Seth

 

[mjchantry]

Seth,

It's finding the used stuff that is the issue. I have an automatic search set up on eBay, and I check a number of forum classifieds daily to see if anything has come available. That's how I got my sander. I just missed out on a jigsaw last week by about 5 minutes 

I don't really understand why Festool did it this way up here.

Matt

 

[jonny round boy]

Is there no way you can get stuff shipped from a US dealer to a friend in the US, who can then forward it on to you? It may be slightly more expensive, but it'd save a LOT of hassle!!!

 

[Dan Clermont]

I have had stuff shipped to some relatives in the US and they bought it up for me. However, they tend to "smuggle" stuff across even though I ask them not to. I fear someday they would get caught with something of mine and I'd feel guilty about that.

If anybody out there wants to pick stuff up for me and ship it across that would be fine as well.

Dan C

 

[CharlesWilson]

Maybe you can arrange for someone to ship 'used' pads to you, which would not require customs. Use for 5 or 10 seconds on balsa wood shouldn't do to much to the life of a Rubin.

So what qualifies as 'used'?

Charles

 

[mjchantry]

Slightly off topic, but relevant to my Hafele rant earlier.

I just got the bill for the disks that were out of stock in Calgary. They charged me $10 shipping - even though it was delivered to their store, not my home.

 

[iggy07]

I'd bitch like hell about a shipping charge to their place of business! Arrogant ba---rds!

Whether we like it or not, Festool mandates MSRP to avoid discounts, so when I walk into my local retailer (Woodcraft), I buy tools, accessories, and abrasives at exactly the price shown in the catalog; no more, no less. Woodcraft won't sell to me at a discount -- but at the same time, they don't charge me a shipping fee to get it to their store so I can buy it from them. That is their cost of doing business. (I love Festool products, but no one ever said they were inexpensive. Given their prices, I suspect there are adequate margins all up and down the distribution chain.)

If Hafele is an authorized dealer, they should either (ideally) have stock on hand, or if not, should take the responsibility for getting it within a reasonable time frame.

If it is an unusual item, or one they would not normally stock, they might ask you to pre-pay in full, or at least pre-pay a significant deposit, thus avoiding special orders from flaky customers who might fail to complete the transaction. But again, they should not charge you the shipping to their location.

If they ship it to your house, or place of business, you will most likely have to pay the shipping. That raises a fine point; if they order it from a distributor, who then drop-ships it directly to you, you will probably have to pay the shipping, and the retailer avoids that cost altogether. But you do benefit from receiving the product directly, so that's not really unreasonable.

From your other descriptions of Hafele, they sound like the dealer from hell. How, and why, did Festool get stuck with them? Exclusively?

Ed Gallaher

 

[Dan Lyke]

I just got the bill for the disks that were out of stock in Calgary. They charged me $10 shipping - even though it was delivered to their store, not my home.

Yep, one of the reasons I don't buy from my closest dealer is that they charge me for special orders for Festool product lines that they don't carry (ie: they allegedly stock the OF 1400, not the 1010), so things like the fine adjuster for the 1010 end up including shipping charges even when I'm willing to pick 'em up from them.

I've ordered one product from them, and I stock up when I visit the store four and a half hours away where my brother outlaw (soon to be inlaw) works.

However, once he moves on from that job I'll be switching over to the various online vendors who frequent this forum, 'cause I really like their participation here.

 

[Dan Clermont]

Maybe you can arrange for someone to ship 'used' pads to you, which would not require customs. Use for 5 or 10 seconds on balsa wood shouldn't do to much to the life of a Rubin.

So what qualifies as 'used'?

Charles

Problem is to have someone take the time to use the paper. Sides customs would might question "used" sandpaper. 

I guess "used" means it doesn't come from a Festool dealer and it maybe has been turned on a dirtied up a bit. I called the border and asked how you pay duty on used stuff (is it a percentage of new?) and she said you pay duty on what the invoice says. So if I wanted a Domino and the Domino Sortainer. I could say I bought the Domino Sortainer with accessories for $240US and they threw in the Domino cause it was used. I'd save a ton of taxes and possible duty. As long as the seller of the used gear can back this up if the border guards call and no other invoice was issued then you are good. If they find out you forged an invoice then you are in deep doo doo.

In the case with the CT-22 and the RO-150 they actually called to verify prices as they strongly felt I wasn't telling the truth (which I was). Another friend bought speakers back and had an EBay invoice showing what he paid and they gave him the same grief. Once again, they called the vendor to confirm the price was correct

WIth the high Cdn dollar their is allot of cross border shopping and customs is really cracking down. As I sat in the customs office I wondered how many people crossed the border without claiming stuff (my friend does it all the time) while I played fair and was 100% legit.

All I can say is thanks to Timmy C for bailing me out cause if he didn't answer his phone they would have with held everything till they confirmed nothing was forged.

Dan C

 

[Dave Ronyak]

I have similar questions. I was confused, and my local Woodcraft was also confused (although the Festool people were not available at the time).

First they had sold me a backing plate for another sander-it had a hub screw instead of the twist-on fitting, so I was hopelessly confused, and didn't even know I had the wrong one. Doh on me; doh on them . .. ..
Moving ahead - what do we use them for? I am refurbishing and polishing a fiberglass shower stall, using various Maguiar products. See the excellent thread elsewhere on FOG with lots of details re car detailing (I don't have the link just now). I look forward to applying these techniques to the car as well.

Do NOT mix compounds on the same pad!

Recommendation from elsewhere: Do NOT attempt to clean the felt pads! Allow them to dry in the protection of an un-sealed zip lock bag, then seal them for storage. Do NOT allow them to collect dust, grit, etc. Use a separate pad for each new compound, and label the back of the pad for future reference. (Therefore, you probably want to buy the 5-pack.) To reconstitute later, work new liquid compound into the pad.

Finally, (now I know), do NOT try to wash out the lambs wool polishing pad. The backing stays the same size, but the lambs wool itself shrinks about 25%-30%!   [Nice Pad] --->> [Shriveled Garbage]

Please take my word for it; I barely know what I'm talking about here! If anyone has further comments, corrections, suggestions, I'd love to hear them.

Ed Gallaher

Ed (aka iggy07),

I have an RO 125 and all three different types of backing pads that are offered for sanding.  I generally try to choose the softest one when polishing/waxing my four cars, but I don't find that it makes much difference with the technique I choose to use.  My approach is a compromise compared to the schedules that Dan and others have developed, but it works surprisingly well and is quick and doesn't require purchase of as many specialties as other routines.  I am writing in regard to polishing/waxing the exterior paint of an automobile, one that was already rubbed out by the manufacturer or body shop.  In other words, maintenance of an existing painted finish.

1.  Wash and dry the whole car.  Preferably use a soft foam sponge for washing and microfiber towels for lightly wiping to dry.
2.  Use tar remover or some solvent liquid wax (Snap Seal is a great product for this step; it leaves enough wax to protect the finish for about one month if you do nothing else!  It also seems to lessen the visible difference in depth of paint appearance after bird droppings have etched their way into the under layer of today's clear coat paints.) to remove the clumps/bumps of crud that accumulate on the lower panels just behind the driven wheels.  In Ohio, I pick up significant lumpy crud in a matter of days!  I am referring to the ones you can easily see and feel that are too large for removal with a clay bar.
3.  Clay bar the car, taking care to follow the recommendations regarding use of a spray on lubricant.  I think others have elsewhere taught how you can make your own if you don't want to buy a commercial spray-on lubricant preparation.  You will be toweling off the still wet lubricant immediately after using your clay bar on a small section.  For those who have never done it before, this may sound like a lot of work, but it actually goes quite fast.  I can clay bar a whole car in 30 minutes or less.  Your paint will be as smooth as new after using the clay bar.
4.  Now its time for your Rotex.  Because I have never let my cars' paint become visibly dull due to oxidation, I never have to go beyond using a cleaner wax or just plain wax.  I have tried Griot's and Meguiar's fine polishes, but they don't make much difference because my cars' paint does not have a lot of swirl marks, etc.  I intentionally use an oversized foam pad that has a felt backing sheet - anything from a 6 inch to an 8 inch diameter foam pad.  These adhere directly to any of Festool's sanding backing pads for my RO 125.  I prefer those in which the felt backing is smaller in diameter than the foam.  My 8 inch pad (from 3M, bought at a local automotive parts store) enables me to reach the areas of the doors under the mirrors with my Rotex that I would otherwise have to do with my hands.  I dampen the pad with water, then swirl on a bit of polish or wax as the case may be, and also lay a couple of strips of liquid polish or wax on the panel I am about to work on.  I keep the rotational speed low at first to enable spreading the compound or wax without slinging it off the panel and the pad, then speed up the rotational speed.  Follow the directions given by the manufacturer of the polish or wax you are using.  It's most important when using a polishing compound; many manufacturers state that you should work the polish until almost dry because the particles continue to break down as they are worked, resulting in a finer and finer abrasive action and thus a smoother and smoother finish if you do as the recommend.
5.  Remove the polish / wax residue.  I generally apply and remove the polish/wax one panel (or on half in the case of a hood or roof) at a time.  I don't use my Rotex for polish / wax removal.  I do it by hand, normally using microfiber towels so as not to reintroduce scratches and swirl marks.  I have found with Meguiar's cleaner wax and Meguiar's No. 26 Yellow Wax and Griot's Best of Show liquid wax that I can apply wax to the entire car before buffing, but usually don't because I want to see the final result of my efforts as I go along.  IF the wax has dried too hard to enable it to be buffed easily, simply hit that area again with your Rotex / foam pad with wax, then buff sooner rather than waiting.  In contrast, if you use Zymol paste wax, do not wait too long after applying the wax, as it dries very hard.

The newest cars in my family's fleet was made in 2000.  One is a VW that sits outside ALL of the time, the other is an Audi that sits out at work but is garaged at night.  The others were made in 1996 and 1993.  Yesterday I received many compliments on the appearance of the OEM black paint on the 1993 BMW from other owners at a club driver's school gathering.  Many of them are very focused on the appearance of their cars.  My wife and son continually get comments on the appearance of the paint on their cars.  Most think my wife's 1996 Saab is a new car.  It sit outside two full years while my house/garage was being modified (slow contractors and slow me).

P.S.  In the time it took me to write this I could have clay barred one car, or waxed one.

Dave R.

 

[iggy07]

Dave - thanks for the additional info. We are gradually collecting a lot of good ideas regarding auto detailing.

Here are some more questions:

1. I notice the various backing pads for sanding. I still only have the standard one that came with the RO-150.

2. Festool recommends yet another pad as the backing for their soft and hard felt pads. I bought this backing pad, and both the soft and hard felt pads that go with it. I assume I should be using softer felt pads with more aggressive compounds, and then the harder pad with finer compounds, polishes, and waxes?

As Dan mentioned, the backing pad is indeed smaller than the felt pads.

3. You mention buying larger pads from other sources. Are these 'sponges' ? Or 'felt pads' ? Or are these terms used interchangeable among detailers? I assume you are buying larger pads for the same reason that Festool sells the smaller backing pad for their felt pads? This leaves some 'unsupported' overhang of the felt pad beyond the solid backing material. As a result, this flexibility on the edges allows us to get into corners and around curves more easily. Correct?

4. Clay - Based on Dan's earlier comments I bought a 'clay package' from Maguiar's ($20 USD). It contained two blocks of clay, the lubricant (Quick Detailer), a moderate amount of Maguiar's Cleaner Wax, and a large uF towel. (I would appreciate comments from others, but I was quite impressed with this package for a beginner like me.)

a. Any comments about this particular clay? Good? Bad?

b. I believe I was working too hard the first time around, although the car needed a lot of work due to minimal care over the past 10 years.

c. For those that haven't tried it, I would also recommend the clay process. It is harder to describe than to actually do, and the results are quite amazing. Put your hand inside a very thin plastic sandwich bag to reduce friction, and lightly skim the original surface, and then the clayed surface. The original surface feels like sandpaper compared to the clayed surface. With a little practice (and a maintained surface) I can see where a car could be clayed in about 30 minutes.

5. I have not used the RO-150 on the car yet -- it is at another house (bathroom remodel; fiberglass restoration), and I am washing the cars at home. I'll have them all in one place in about a week, and I'll give it a try with the Cleaner Wax.

--> Do I understand that you use the Rotex in rotary, and NOT in random orbital mode? This seems to be the case, but I don't really understand why.

The Rotex rotary mode of course includes a random oscillation superimposed on the rotation. Is this what is meant by DA (dual action) on the Maquiar directions? (Everyone seems to use their own definitions and acronyms, so I'm not sure anyone knows what anyone else is really talking about.) Is this the same action everyone raves about with the Porter-Cable?

6. I will post some of my experiences over the next few weeks, and hopefully we will acquire a pretty good set of suggestions for newcomers and experts alike.

Thanks,

Ed