poor finish of FESTOOL plunge and miter saw

[WarnerConstCo.]

Send it back, the next one will look the same way and the next and the next and the next.

You guys should see what a 30k cast iron machine looks like before they grind on it and maybe fill some of the casting voids.

Casting is a great process, but you will not eliminate all minor casting defects. 

Cut some boards, I am sure that little casting line won't make the saw cut crooked. 

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Gents,

People have varying levels of expectations and what's acceptable. While I believe what we're talking about here is cosmetic, that just my opinion. Be considerate of the OP's right to his opinion on the matter. I think we've all answered his question about whether this is normal or not, which it is, and given him some options to consider.

I'm sure everyone has their own opinions on the topic. Let's keep things cordial and helpful.

Thanks,
Shane

 

[promark747]

I can see both sides.  To add another analogy, one of my other hobbies is audio equipment.  There have been countless examples over the years of manufacturers (usually high-end boutique brands) that have tried to cover up poor engineering with pretty faceplates and extreme attention to cosmetics, or by adding tons of dubious features.  In many cases, their $8,000 amp/processor or $30,000 speakers didn't perform as well as typical Sony or Denon units.

On the other hand, I wouldn't necessarily want to buy a piece of audio equipment that had a sloppy or careless appearance, regardless of how great it sounded.

Personally, I've never thought Festool products had a poor finish...utilitarian perhaps, but not poor.

 

[greg mann]

I am left scratching my head over what one might think as an appropriate response. If you go back and read the OP there are statements made as though they are pretty much indisputable fact. Indeed, there is actually no solicitation expressed for the opinions that followed. Opinions just weren't asked for. Did the OP intend to just inform us all that the workmanship was shoddy and we are supposed to just go look at our Dominos and say, "Gee, he is right! These outside edges weren't even machined. I can see they have no function but now it is too late for me to send it back. If only I had known." Am I being a little sarcastic? Sure, but everything in this thread has been pretty calm and thoughtful compared to a boatload of issues I've witnessed elsewhere.

I am sorry, but I don't think anyone has been rude or offered up unreasonable opinions. There is room for disagreement here but probably no room for resolution. So be it. To suggest to the OP that if he does not like the workmanship to take it back is not being direspectful. It is offering him a solution. I for one don't want anyone picking up a tool with nagging disatisfaction each time he does so.

A few days ago Darcy and I found each other on opposite sides of the SawStop discussion. Just yesterday, he took me up on an invitation and stopped in to see me while he was nearby picking up his fifteenth jointer.  [poke]  We got along just fine.

My Grandmother used to have a saying, "Each man is crazy in his own way." Probably appropriate here to describe me, Darcy, and the OP.

And surely all of us here must know that a significant portion of the woodworking community thinks everyone on this website is nuts.

 

[macomk]

Gents,

People have varying levels of expectations and what's acceptable. While I believe what we're talking about here is cosmetic, that just my opinion. Be considerate of the OP's right to his opinion on the matter. I think we've all answered his question about whether this is normal or not, which it is, and given him some options to consider.

I'm sure everyone has their own opinions on the topic. Let's keep things cordial and helpful.

Thanks,
Shane

Thank you very much to all of you for your contribution I respect and take in consideration all of your comments.
Before I purchased the tools I have research them extensively and I believe that Festool developed excellent technologies. However perfection is spoiled by these small flaws.

Therefore I would like to ask you Shane as you are Festool employee and FOG admin if you can pass the concerns to Festool designing engineers to consider to deal with these flaws. So if this is just "cosmetic flaw" they might apply easy and inexpensive lifetime fix to it. I will appreciate it.

I seen this quote of one successful chap "Your most unhappy customers are your greatest source of learning."

 

[macomk]

The customer bought an expensive saw and thought for the money that the fit and finish could be better.  That's good customer feedback that Festool can either use or ignore based on their business objectives. 

macomk, if you perceived my comments as being dismissive I apologize, that was far from my intent. You're completely entitled to your own consumer product expectations, I just don't happen to agree the finish matters as much as performance especially in commercial products. And by all means return these or any products if you are dissatisfied.

Dear Paul,

I agree with you that performance is the most important, there is no doubt, but in the case of premium brand and premium price the finish matters as well. At the end of the day if this is such a small cosmetic flaw, Festool can easily apply fix which will last a lifetime.

 

[rljatl]

Count me with those that are not willing to pay more for a premium cosmetic finish that provides no functional improvement.

 

[macomk]

Count me with those that are not willing to pay more for a better finish that provides no functional improvement.

We shouldn't be paying more, Festool should just apply appropriate finish.

Why majority of Festool nation think that we should pay for this to be solved?

 

[NHSP759]

Welcome aboard Macomk! I don't think your too far off in your complaint and I just spent a ton of cash on recond tools that for the most part appear to be relatively unscathed. But I also dropped some serious coin on the Domino, TS55, Carvex, Midi and a whole bucketload of tools this year etc.....if I found casting marks on my expensive new tools I probably would not have been impressed but...a simple return would fix the problem.

Additionally, Cochese brought up a great point. Not doing anything about it won't do too much for you. I can vouch for the fact that unlike many other brands of tools, these casting marks are not a reflection of the quality of the tools or their performance but in my experience with other brands those signs and markings were signs of concern. Rest assured Festool will back up your thirty day window and you can probably get an aesthetically pleasing tool no problem-o!

 

[macomk]

Welcome aboard Macomk! I don't think your too far off in your complaint and I just spent a ton of cash on recond tools that for the most part appear to be relatively unscathed. But I also dropped some serious coin on the Domino, TS55, Carvex, Midi and a whole bucketload of tools this year etc.....if I found casting marks on my expensive new tools I probably would not have been impressed but...a simple return would fix the problem.

Additionally, Cochese brought up a great point. Not doing anything about it won't do too much for you. I can vouch for the fact that unlike many other brands of tools, these casting marks are not a reflection of the quality of the tools or their performance but in my experience with other brands those signs and markings were signs of concern. Rest assured Festool will back up your thirty day window and you can probably get an aesthetically pleasing tool no problem-o!

Well I had Festool representative visit and I have been told that all Festool plunge and miter saws have this flaw. Festool is happy to replace them, but can not guarantee better delivery. I am awaiting response from HQ.

 

[NHSP759]

Well it's good for you and Festool in how seriously they respond! I've asked for help from their techs and they are really quite awesome at providing troubleshooting and product info in a quick fashion. They guys here are great too

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

Count me with those that are not willing to pay more for a better finish that provides no functional improvement.

We shouldn't be paying more, Festool should just apply appropriate finish.

Why majority of Festool nation think that we should pay for this to be solved?

Because it will be an added labor expense in making the saw, that delivers no added benefit, functionality wise. 

 

[Scott B.]

...and in this post someone actually thinks his festool is "sexy".

Actually, I thought I would take heat for calling the TS ugly.

Maybe I didn't choose the right descriptive term, but I personally think the whole Kapex set up is pretty cool looking and a really good performer.

I don't worry much about the appearance of my tools. They are here to work. Just my opinion.

 

[Paul G]

Count me with those that are not willing to pay more for a better finish that provides no functional improvement.

We shouldn't be paying more, Festool should just apply appropriate finish.

Why majority of Festool nation think that we should pay for this to be solved?

If addressing these details increases their cost to manufacture then that cost is passed on to the tool buyer. It's not that I think I should pay for it, it's just the way manufacturing works.

 

[macomk]

Count me with those that are not willing to pay more for a better finish that provides no functional improvement.

We shouldn't be paying more, Festool should just apply appropriate finish.

Why majority of Festool nation think that we should pay for this to be solved?

Because it will be an added labor expense in making the saw, that delivers no added benefit, functionality wise.

I still do not see why Festool should charge extra, when they are already charging for top quality. We are in 21st century where aesthetics of a products matters. 

 

[greg mann]

Count me with those that are not willing to pay more for a better finish that provides no functional improvement.

We shouldn't be paying more, Festool should just apply appropriate finish.

Why majority of Festool nation think that we should pay for this to be solved?

Once again, the OP makes statement of opinion as though they are fact. Based on the history of this forum I think it is safe to state, in the opinion of most here, there is no problem to be solved. There is clearly a problem for one person but not the "Festool nation".

The OP will, in my opinion, gain more credibility by posting about his experience 'using' these tools rather than just looking at them.  [popcorn]

 

[tbellemare]

Well I had Festool representative visit and I have been told that all Festool plunge and miter saws have this flaw. Festool is happy to replace them, but can not guarantee better delivery. I am awaiting response from HQ.

Mr./Ms. Macomk:

Do you really think it's appropriate to continue to refer to something as a "flaw" when it has been so carefully and thoroughly described as a "feature" of casting that has nothing whatsoever to do with the function of the saw(s)?

I have the same features on my saws and they have no negative impact on the function or utility. I would (sort of) respectfully suggest that your claim about failure because of lack of material is baseless. If I'm wrong, would you please show us a Finite Element Analysis of your particular saw's weakness? I would also accept a RASNA equivalent, Polynomial Element Analysis.

I don't understand why you continue to call these "flaws".

I happen to have a multiple-Continent relationship with design/manufacturing companies from an advisory standpoint. There is a good reason to make things more cost-effective using castings. Every set up and machining operation increases the cost. If it doesn't add function, control cost...

I just don't understand your position. Perhaps I'm missing something?

Tom

 

[macomk]

Count me with those that are not willing to pay more for a better finish that provides no functional improvement.

We shouldn't be paying more, Festool should just apply appropriate finish.

Why majority of Festool nation think that we should pay for this to be solved?

If addressing these details increases their cost to manufacture then that cost is passed on to the tool buyer. It's not that I think I should pay for it, it's just the way manufacturing works.

I can see where you are coming from.
However I disagree with this, as Festool is already charging premium for flawless quality, unless that is what they say. Festool just needs to sacrifice little bit of their profit to make a tool they are promising to deliver. Until they negotiate better contract with manufacturer. That how it works in business where customers are heard.

 

[macomk]

Well I had Festool representative visit and I have been told that all Festool plunge and miter saws have this flaw. Festool is happy to replace them, but can not guarantee better delivery. I am awaiting response from HQ.

Mr./Ms. Macomk:

Do you really think it's appropriate to continue to refer to something as a "flaw" when it has been so carefully and thoroughly described as a "feature" of casting that has nothing whatsoever to do with the function of the saw(s)?

Dear Tom, please check the link

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/flaw?searchDictCode=all

 

[Paul G]

Count me with those that are not willing to pay more for a better finish that provides no functional improvement.

We shouldn't be paying more, Festool should just apply appropriate finish.

Why majority of Festool nation think that we should pay for this to be solved?

If addressing these details increases their cost to manufacture then that cost is passed on to the tool buyer. It's not that I think I should pay for it, it's just the way manufacturing works.

I can see where you are coming from.
However I disagree with this, as Festool is already charging premium for flawless quality, unless that is what they say. Festool just needs to sacrifice little bit of their profit to make a tool they are promising to deliver. Until they negotiate better contract with manufacturer. That how it works in business where customers are heard.

Please provide a link that clearly indicates that Festool is promising flawless quality. Without such a claim by Festool you are now just making things up.