Pricing Projects

[WelshWood]

Hey guys,

Quite a vague question, but just wondering how you guys work out your pricing for particular projects/commissions you come across.

Recently I get the feeling I've been undercharging for a few things; experience is obviously a major factor, but just seeing if anyone can give me any tips so I know how much to charge.

For example, I have a commision to make some MDF sliding doors which will span around 6m of a room, so 6 doors, in total, around 1800mm high, with a pattern routed into in much like this;

[attachimg=1]

To which I will then add the hardware to allow the doors to slide and stop on the floor to prevent the doors swaying.

I have a vague price i'm thinking of asking, but again, as mentioned I have trouble pricing, I would like to see if i'm around the ballpark figure that you guys can suggest.

Many Thanks,

~WW

 

[BUTTER]

You're still a bit too vague on specs:  What hardware are you using?  how thick are the doors? Is it a finished space or rough? any finishing or other finish repairs necessary?  Are you matching the routing on the backside to balance the panel, or are you budgeting for planofits?

For custom pieces, it is (almost) always more cost-effective to buy doors ready-made from a major manufacturer.  If you price it out at the same cost as they would charge, you are undercharging.

 

[WelshWood]

You're still a bit too vague on specs:  What hardware are you using?  how thick are the doors? Is it a finished space or rough? any finishing or other finish repairs necessary?  Are you matching the routing on the backside to balance the panel, or are you budgeting for planofits?

For custom pieces, it is (almost) always more cost-effective to buy doors ready-made from a major manufacturer.  If you price it out at the same cost as they would charge, you are undercharging.

Hardware is already supplied, as is all the other materials, basically a simple roller which is screwed into the back of the panel/door and lifted into a channel into which it slides, would take around 5 mins to do if i'm honest.

Doors are 15mm thick MR MDF.

Won't have to do any decorating, as client will be doing that, routering will be only on one face of the door panel.

These are made to fit an area, so can't be bought,

Cheers for your help,

~WW

 

[BUTTER]

You're still a bit too vague on specs:  What hardware are you using?  how thick are the doors? Is it a finished space or rough? any finishing or other finish repairs necessary?  Are you matching the routing on the backside to balance the panel, or are you budgeting for planofits?

For custom pieces, it is (almost) always more cost-effective to buy doors ready-made from a major manufacturer.  If you price it out at the same cost as they would charge, you are undercharging.

Hardware is already supplied, as is all the other materials, basically a simple roller which is screwed into the back of the panel/door and lifted into a channel into which it slides, would take around 5 mins to do if i'm honest.

Doors are 15mm thick MR MDF.

Won't have to do any decorating, as client will be doing that, routering will be only on one face of the door panel.

These are made to fit an area, so can't be bought,

Cheers for your help,

~WW

You may have trouble with the longevity of this system breaking only one face of the panel without a balance, particularly since you are only using 15mm for a large door.
I'm always dubious of owner-supplied hardware.
Over here, we frequently outsource custom size doors to larger production operations that specialise in such - I was suggesting you compare their cost to yours, and then increase as necessary.
Good luck!

 

[Doug S]

I have been doing joinery for years and still hate pricing. I am lucky that I have a good customer base who just want me to do the work so a lot of the time I just charge an hourly rate. My wife moans about this though and says I could make more if I did more priced work.

I supply all the materials and hardware because I know what is best and also can add a bit on.
All you can do is work out how long you think it will take and multiply it by your hourly rate. If it is a good job and will lead to more work I might be a bit cheaper, if it's a job I don't fancy I will add a bit more on and still sometimes get the job.

The type of customer you want will not be looking for the cheapest quote but the most professional person. The people who just want the cheapest are the ones who will cause you the most problems.

Doug

 

[WelshWood]

I have been doing joinery for years and still hate pricing. I am lucky that I have a good customer base who just want me to do the work so a lot of the time I just charge an hourly rate. My wife moans about this though and says I could make more if I did more priced work.

I supply all the materials and hardware because I know what is best and also can add a bit on.
All you can do is work out how long you think it will take and multiply it by your hourly rate. If it is a good job and will lead to more work I might be a bit cheaper, if it's a job I don't fancy I will add a bit more on and still sometimes get the job.

The type of customer you want will not be looking for the cheapest quote but the most professional person. The people who just want the cheapest are the ones who will cause you the most problems.

Doug

This was my original plan, to charge hourly rate. I think it will take me roughly 5 - 6 hours to do.

However, I know that if he was to buy a wardrobe or such, he would be paying well over this rate, in my opinion, this is a bespoke fitting so why shouldn't I charge more?

Day rate v Price is always a hard thing to choose; I've lost money (somtimes a huge amount) by underestimating the time it will take me to finish work, but on the other hand, have had a few hundred £ for barely an hours work, it just completely depends on the job to be carried out.

Such a headache!

~WW

 

[Llama]

I quote almost everything the same way.

Material cost ( wood/hardware/ect.) + Labor cost + Shop fee (this is a percentage, and covers sharpening and consumables) = Customers Cost for the piece. Shipping is an additional charge.

A quick common sense check is usually in order. Look around for similar things, and see if you are close. But if you come up for let's say $1000, and you see it for $3000, ask yourself why... don't simply raise your bid.

Don't charge a customer more money because you are slow. Learn to be faster, which turns into more profit for you. As your skill increases, so should your hourly rate.

Most importantly, the price is the price. Clients that want to haggle usually aren't worth the trouble.

 

[gkaiseril]

Some craftsman use cost plus. But one needs to be careful not to have project cost go out of control.

 

[Doug S]

If I thought something would take 6hr I would be charging for a full day.

Doug

 

[WelshWood]

If I thought something would take 6hr I would be charging for a full day.

Doug

Exactly what I would be doing, However, sometimes that could also mean doing a job to cheap.

~WW

 

[waho6o9]

Make a couple doors out of scrap and time one and blast through

the second one production style. Figure out all supplies used, how long glue up takes,

plus your overhead, daily rate and add 15%.

Don't sell yourself short. You're a highly skilled professional.

 

[tiralie]

If I thought something would take 6hr I would be charging for a full day.

Doug

Exactly what I would be doing, However, sometimes that could also mean doing a job to cheap.

~WW

I am not sure I understand, unless you have another client waiting for you at the same or higher price how can you be doing a job too cheaply?
Tim

 

[Doug S]

Welsh Wood, is your worry that you think your client will be getting a lot for their money so you feel you could be charging more?

On some jobs the customer does seem to do well out of it but other jobs seem expensive for what they get. I would still stick to my normal rate rather then upping the price too much, this is how I have built a good customer base. Also somebody else might step in and do the job for what it actually costs and make you like you were trying it on.

Also you are supplying the job unfinished, I know you say that the customer is painting the doors but the cost of finishing needs to be taken in to account when comparing prices with fitted wardrobes. Finishing can be expensive and spoil the job if not done well.

Doug

 

[Tayler_mann]

To me it is super simple and I get all the jobs from people that have requested most of the time. I tell them I charge $65/hr and I charge accordingly. If I have time that shouldn't be charged they don't get charged for it. I also than tell them quality is something important to me and there is only one level of craftsmanship. To achieve that it is hard for me to determine the exact amount of time I will be putting into a project. After that I give them a rough estimate and say it could be very well that the final price is below that but no surprises if it's a few hundred (maybe thousands depending on project) more. I also tell them if they would like another contractor to bid it for them that's fine but ask them the quality they guarantee and the warranty they give to their work (mine is always better ). Usually it ends with me getting the job and not having to cut corners or rush a job and giving someone the highest of quality work. I compare it to buying fine aged wine. It's more expensive than most but it's worth every sip to the bottom of that way to small of a bottle.

 

[tiralie]

I also than tell them quality is something important to me and there is only one level of craftsmanship.

Well said/stated.
Tim

 

[pugilato]

The way I work (and most around here as well) is by an hourly rate, to be paid weekly. I give clients a shopping list, or if they don't want to shop, I upcharge them by a percentage for my expenses in the shopping trip. If the job is small, there is a minimum charge.

Most clients want to know what the full job will cost, and I quote for what I expect the whole job to take plus a fudge factor. I stopped telling them how much a job will cost on an hourly basis, because they always forget the part about it being an estimate. A fixed price job will always be more than a time and materials job because I am taking the full risk of underquoting. Regardless of how the quote is made, I expect to be paid weekly or the work stops. I know too many who quote based on paying certain percentages at certain times who have been told by clients they are not "satisfied" with the work at the end of the project and will not pay what is owed.