Problems, problems

sli

Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2013
Messages
2
   
 Here Goes. I recently spent about $4K on various items, and have had nothing but irksome problems to epic failure with almost all the Festool products. Since it has been around 30 days, I'm going to see if i can get my money back, and return Festool's high-priced junk. I have been a self-employed professional carpenter, cabinetmaker and furniture maker for over 30 years and have trailers, trucks and a shop full of tools of every pro brand, yet have never been so unimpressed with a company's over inflated, ridiculously priced products as I have with Festool. They all seem to be designed by an armchair engineer with no common sense who has never worked in the field or a production shop. I have never owned any Ryobi tools, but the performance of F'tool is what I always imagined Ryobi's to be: poorly designed, cheap, underpowered and cute to a hobbyist. Here is what I purchased and used:
    TS75: This saw is dismal. With an additional brand new Panther rip blade, it bogs down in oak. When in use, it feels and sounds like it runs like a cheap Wal-Mart skil saw. The cut with either new blade out of the box, was a total joke- wavy, kerf marks through the entire cut, and tearout. The saw kicks back at the beginning of every cut if the operator is not standing directly behind it applying forward, downward pressure, which makes it awkward to have to then move to the side of the rail to finish the cut. The Makita track saw I've used does not do this. Perhaps the saw is defective- it seems like the arbor may have some runout because the saw has never produced a smooth finish. Or perhaps it's Festool's design to maintain rpms "electronically"-the constant torquing might be the reason it cuts miserably. The saw has already chewed off the splinter guard in various places along the rail, and soon looks like it'll be chewing into the aluminum edge. And who's idea was it to put depth control on the saw that does not include the rail thickness? Brilliant. And the swiveling dust collection port-really? It flops around in the way until the hose pulls off.
    1400/55mm rails: Besides the non existent splinter guard, (what a joke- the only cut without a splintered edge was the first virgin cut to trim the splinter guard), the rails have worn spots in the aluminum where the saw has now begun to bind and squeak horribly. I have applied paste wax in desperation, which seems to help- until it wears off. The lime green strips of plastic don't seem to really reduce friction, as the saw rides on the rail in other spots. So should the plastic splinter guards be re-labeled "consumables"? After approx. 40 cuts, both rails don't have any splinter guards left, and i'm supposed to buy new ones? That would be a daily or every other day purchase in our shop.
    Parallel guides and extensions: You've got to be kidding. These are actually considered useful? I found them to be absolute JUNK. I'll go farther- Epic FAIL on the design  and implementation. The ends of the guides flop backwards constantly, pulling the front cut edge of the rail off the line. The set screws are soft brass and stripped the very first time they were snugged. The ends of the set screws actually dent the back of the rail when tightened. The bottom of the guides abraded the rubber pads on the bottom of the rail, the first time they were slid on the rail. The eccentric clamps are way too tight for what little pressure they need to exert and stretch the aluminum rabbet they ride in. The whole thing is impractical and unwieldy- it almost needs two people to use it without knocking one out of alignment. Really guys. Nobody could think of a better $400 back scratcher?
    Domino DF500: OMG, another joke. I have cheap Porter Cable and Dewalt biscuit jointers that are better made than this, and don't even start to compare it to my Lamello. The very first 10mm tenons we cut with it in the shop were a fail- board edges misaligned, sloppy holes and tearout. No one in the shop could use it to produce accurate floating tenons. The fence edge has no teeth or grip and the machine constantly shifted slightly to one side. The depth setting on the flip down fence is junk and the tightening lever is now pushed all the way onto the fence, as tight as it will go. The little plastic levers look like they are about to break and they've only been tightened about 12 times. How long will this hold up? But the fence will not stay tight and constantly moves, thereby cutting slots at completely different heights. I had to restrain someone from throwing it across the shop into the garbage can. I think I got the flimsy plastic accessories that were made in China. The depth markings were damaged (dented) right out of the package, which makes it hard to read and set, although since it won't stay at a preset depth, it is a moot point. The motor is quite loud and gets surprisingly hot after only 20 min. or so of operation.  It also vibrates heavily in the hand- my carpel tunnel would hate using this thing for any extended period.
Even the tenons didn't work well. When pushed into the mortise, the edges peel back slightly onto the face of the board, thereby preventing the two boards from coming together tightly in a glue joint. (So disassemble the whole thing, hoping you haven't spread the glue yet, get a razor knife to trim both sides of each tenon without taking off too much, whoops, that one split, "Hey, where's the pliers?"...)
    OF1400: Again the "electronic" speed control seems to affect the rpm with a slight pulsing, which leaves less than a smooth finish even with brand new solid carbide bits. The little, very flimsy plastic dust collector is laughable and can only be used with smaller diameter bits. The plunge operation was very stiff and takes two hands to comfortably and safely utilize in a more delicate step plunge application. I meant to put a dial indicator on it but haven't had time to check shaft runout. Awkward visibility under power leaves me reaching for a Bosch, or trusty 20 year old Porter Cable. I have yet to try the 32mm system that I got with it- the next time some goes to the field and needs a quick panel fab, we might use it.
    In short, save your money. I definitely feel ripped off. I guess I should've ordered the lime green glasses because with my rose colored ones, my other tools all look top notch. Hey, maybe I'll even go buy some Ryobi stuff. I'll call Festool as soon as I can find time.

EDIT> To restore OP's  post.
 
Forum members,

We have recently had a thread going about allowing tools to be criticized.  We talked about openness and i wrote about flaming and trolling.  As a moderator  who has seem a lot here I have never seen an initial post like this.  You haven't either.

I am locking this thread because based on my experience here my gut feeling (which may end up being wrong) is that something might not be quite what it appears and give time to check this out.

Thank you for your understanding.

Peter Halle - Moderator
 
The original content of sli's post has been restored after we did some checking into the situation.  Turns out Peter's gut was wrong ... it happens, so don't hang him.   By pure chance and coincidence the OP's first post had very many earmarks of a post that was designed to simply cause a stir. That is not the case.

So lets get on board here and help out with the problem solving in a helpful and constructive manner as we all would any time a new user asks a question on the tools.

Our (FOG staff) appologies to sli.

Seth
 
All that in under 30 day WOW....... thats some first post. I would take it all back if you can its clearly not suitable for your needs
 
Festoolfootstool said:
All that in under 30 day WOW....... thats some first post. I would take it all back if you can its clearly not suitable for your needs

Another vote for taking them back!  Stick with what works for you and be happy that Festool offers 30 days.

Theres a few considerable complaints that have a commonality with others.  He's not the only guy who doesn't like the parallel guides.

Not sure why the guide strips and saw are having issues.  The TS75 with the correct blade should have no issues.  My MT55 can cut full depth in oak.

Never heard of a complaint with the domino.  Maybe you got a bad one.

Although its important to note that new tools take time to learn.  I cant think of a tool I fully understood out of the box.

 
[scared] am sorry but this doesn't all seem plausible to me, one issue maybe, but all of those?? I would be checking my Festool serial numbers to make sure you are not using imitations tools or something, for example re the TS75, with my TS55 I have cut wet green oak 4x8" sleepers using a normal blade (2 cuts at full depth).. that's the only time I have had it sound like its starting to struggle.

sorry I don't buy it, the TS75, DF500, OF1400, somethings wrong here
 
Maybe tackle one tool at a time.

The Domino jumping sideways is most likely due to plunging too fast. It can not be plunged at the rate of a biscuit  joiner, because it is performing a different action to cut the mortise. For some tasks a biscuit joiner is much faster, but it doesn't have the versatility for all purpose assembly.

Seth
 
I was reluctant to post in a locked thread because I wanted the OP to have the chance to respond.

I have contacted him via email and offered my assistance. We've been in touch with him by phone to help troubleshoot the issues. I think there were some valuable tips given that will help some of the problems get resolved. I offered to have our service department thoroughly check a Domino and TS to make sure both are spot on and have them shipped to him. We'll do a pick up on his current tools that are being swapped out. We'll have the service department check out the original tools once we receive them to see if we can determine any issues.

Lastly, it seems the original packages that were delivered had little or no packing materials and showed signs of damage externally. It's possible that one or more of the tools was knocked out of calibration of sustained some other form of damage in transit based on what I heard. For instance, the router bit in his LR32 kit was chipped. It takes some force to pop a chuck out of a carbide bit. Lesson: always inspect deliveries and annotate damage or refuse them.

Anyway, I'm optimistic that we've have a happy customer once everything is sorted out.

Anyone reading this thread... if you have issues with your Festool products, please call us for help. We have a team of people who are ready and willing to offer FREE assistance and troubleshooting. A statement to this affect appears anytime you post in the "Tool Problems" section of the forum with our phone number and email address. So, please use it. We want happy customers, even if that means we get tools returned because they didn't meet someone's expectations.

Shane

 
I hope this is just a fluke [eek]I just spent over 4k myself on Festools and if I am not happy with them my wife just might divorce me  [scared].
 
Kudo's to the FOG and Festool for standing behind their stuff.  When I was a newbie I was not experiencing the joy I was expecting with my TS55 - I brought it back to the dealer (Woodcraft) and they walked me through all of the types of cuts and made sure I understood all of the adjustements possible.  They even went so far as to pull another unit out to show the consistentcy of the cuts.

They did not let me leave until all my questions were answered and I found the joy I was looking for.

While we all agree that the price is high, you do get what you pay for.

My $.02
 
I hope everything gets fixed up properly.  It really does sound like the tools were damaged in shipping/delivery (the OP mentions the depth markings on the domino being damaged right out of the box).

For the saw/rail - make sure the adjustment gibs are tight enough so there's no play with the saw on the rail, but still loose enough to slide smoothly, then cut the splinter strip.  Not sure why the saw would give such horrible cuts unless there was a ton of play on the rail.  The sound the saw makes takes some getting used to.  I was worried about mine until I saw some videos online - they just have some growl/scraping sound that's not common in other saws.

Also, with regards to the kickback for every cut, there's a stop to put on the rail to prevent that for plunge cuts in the middle of sheet of plywood, for example.  That's about the only time you would want to plunge into the wood.  For normal cuts, you plunge the saw fully, then slide it into the wood - you need a rail that sticks out far enough so that you can plunge fully before contacting the wood.  I've had kickback, but I was either trying to rip with my fine blade, or I was plunging into the wood because my rail wasn't long enough - crosscutting 48" with a 55" rail.

The domino takes some practice to do right.  As Peter mentioned, you don't want to plunge too fast.  You also mentioned worrying about your carpal tunnel.  Mine doesn't vibrate excessively, but that indicates you may be gripping it too hard with the hand you're using to plunge it.  What works best is to use one hand to solidly hold the fence, and with the other hand, just use two fingers, one on either side of the power cord, to plunge - just push, don't grip and push.  Gripping may move it out of alignment.

The parallel guides are a little clunky, I'll admit.  I've had to rig things up to keep them from flopping around.

I can't offer advice on the 1400, but I haven't noticed any pulsing with mine.  The plunge is stiffer than my 1010.

 
I have a TS 75 &  Domino & lots of sanders. I have no problem with the Domino or the sanders but it does take some getting used to the domino & the RO sanders. I will say though I do encounter the same problem cutting hardwood lumber with the TS 75. I had a lot of 4/4 1/4 sawn white oak to straight rip & found even with the panther blades if I didn't go slow the saw would overheat & quit.
I did talk with Festool service but I think it came down to my expectations. I can straight rip up to 10' on my sliding carriage saw and with a 10 hp motor it cuts very quickly but even with it if you push too hard you can bog it down.

I think sometimes when you read a lot of people say they have no problem cutting oak with their saw you think their expectations are the same as yours. When you have 2000 board feet of 12' oak in front of you going slow does not seem like an option. I have not used any other TS 75 other than the one I own but I think mine is working as per design. I don't have the parallel guides so I can't comment on them.

FWIW

Gerry
 
This is so incredible. I know the thread was locked and then unlocked but I still find this very worrying. It is always rather strange when we see people, new to the FOG, relating epic stories on their first post. I would not have waited to the end of the 30 day period to break with a tale like this - everything would have been back with the dealer. Who is the dealer? Has he/she had a chance to come into this thread?

Peter

 
I'm actually amazed this isn't a crank hoax or something.

The only tool I don't have direct experience with is the TS75, but it's on my list for this year and this post does nothing to dissuade me.

As with most tools, if they are a little different to a standard/common tool they do require a bit if skill development. I can see this being Festool's shortcoming (possibly in this case - but maybe here there are other factors).

The parallel guides are well engineered, but you need to know how to use them.

The Domino is spectacular, but again ... you need to know how to use it!

Regarding the OF1400, that one must be faulty ... mine works like a dream.

Maybe there needs to be a big warning on the tool as you open it "WARNING!!! This is a precision tool with features that differ from similar products, please watch the accompanying instructional DVD for guidance on calibration, optimal operation and fault detection"

Oh yes - it'll need the DVD too  [wink]
 
Shane and Festool are handling this with the dealer, customer, etc.    Lets keep it about the tools in this thread and work on the specific problems that the OP has so that he doesn't have to continue to be frustrated.  

I guess with the TS75 ripping oak it depends on how fast you need to cut.  From my personal use I can't imagine the TS75 w/ Panther bogging down. If I am ripping with Panther on my TS55 it doesn't bog down, but maybe I am not trying to go as fast?

Seth

 
I have had a few hours to think about posting here, so here goes.

I too have recently spent at least 4K on Festool tools. I got hooked by a friend and probably have more than I need. I am NOT a lifelong woodworker, in fact I am brand new to the woodworking hobby, having just set up my shop in the last 6 months.

Many of the Festool and other brand tools I now have are waiting for their first use, but I have tried out some of them to see how they work and get used to them. I watched Pauls (Half Inch Shy) Domino video series (excellent information, thanks!) and cranked my Domino 500 up last week. No problems here, as a VERY inexperienced woodworker, I was easily able to use the tool, get accurate cuts, lined up joints and the like. The fence system worked just fine for me. I did not even bother to do the initial alignment yet, just plugged it in and went for it. I did make an error by not setting the depth correctly and the bit came through the other side - oops! The Dominos fit snugly into the holes as designed, no problems with the tool or the tenons. I did the plunges smoothly, not rushing it and the tool worked as designed. Yes it's loud, so is a table saw, thats why I wear ear protection.

I have more Festools to put through their paces - routers, track saw, sanders. I look forward to using them.

I just can't wrap my head around EVERYTHING being wrong in the initial post. One tool is broken or something, OK. But so many problems with so many tools, all at the same time....  [huh] I hope the OP is able to get his money back, and move to other brands he is more familiar with.
 
Personally, when I pay premium prices (Festool) I always have premium expectations and find what would normally be a minor annoyance to be very frustrating.  When I shelled out the cash for my Kapex I thought I was going to have a heart attack when it did not cut perfect 90's and 45's.    After a little cool down I got busy tuning it up and it took about 6 hours before I was satisfied.(I'm hard to  please)  If I had written a review 30 minutes after opening the box I would surely be banned from this forum now.  After tuning and tweaking that same Kapex give machinist caliber accuracy and is a truly awesome product.

I have confidence the OP will be satisfied in the end and find the festool system a real asset to his business.

Really glad this thread was reopened.
 
Lots of people have trouble driving a Porsche after driving trucks all their lives (and that's not a shot at truck drivers)  [smile]

I think it's inconceivable that someone would have extreme problems with every tool purchased unless they did not have any real understanding of proper usage. However, no matter what, why would anyone spend that much money on tools and then (apparently) not contact the dealer or manufacturer with these issues instead of waiting 30 days and posting here. Surely the OP would be aware of the 30 day return policy before laying down $4K.  And if I were coming here first it would be more asking for help not just ranting about the problems I was having. I would exercise all my options FIRST, then I would rant about it if they could not be addressed to my satisfaction, not the other way around.

"I'll call Festool if I can find the time" yet he took the time to sign up for the forum and post a lengthy description of his experience.

Sorry but I still think there is something else going on here.....

I admire Festool's desire to help and it will be interesting to see where this goes.

Chris
 
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