Question about the MFT

[samsmith93]

Hello,

I am thinking about getting an MFT and sitting it on top of my existing bench.

1. do you need to be able to access the underside of the MFT in order to use the dogs, or do they just slot in from the top with no need for access underneath.

2. If access to the underneath is not necessary - do the dogs protrude through the bottom or finish flush with the bottom of the MFT (i.e will I need to raise it above my existing workbench to allow clearance for the dogs?

Many thanks!!

 

[Coen]

1. You can fasten some dogs from underneath, but 99% of the time I don't use that feature. It makes them sit more sturdy though.

2. They don't protrude below the slab.

3. Using the railclamps from below will be impossible if you have no access to the underside.

 

[Stone Message]

Hi Sam

It all depends on the type of dogs that you are using. Some do not protrude below the lower face of the top but some do. For some applications it is useful or even necessary to be able to get underneath in order to secure a dog with a screw knob.

Sometimes, if a dog is rather tight in a hole it is useful to be able to push from below.

The MDF top of the MFT3 is about 19 mm or 3/4". So, when buying dogs you can check if they will go beyond the bottom face or not.

The MFT3's pattern of holes makes it ideal for all sorts of work holding and jig work. With that in mind you may need to use clamps that pass through the holes in order to be secured to the top. In almost every case there is no need to access the space below the MFT3 top but with some jigs it may be necessary to use a screw knob to hold the jig in place.

Peter

 

[Packard]

I have a home made MFT style top and for the clamps I use undertable access is very useful.  You certainly want to have some space under the table for clamps. 

This type of clamp inserts in the holes and needs a few inches of space under the table top.

 

[samsmith93]

Thanks to all for your replies so far. That is really useful to know.

I am thinking of doing a DIY MFT in 30mm MDF so it sounds like the dogs won't likely protrude beneath that at all, however I had not considered the usefulness of being able to just pass a clamp through the hole!

For downwards clamping I had been looking at something like this
-https://www.axminstertools.com/axminster-trade-clamps-screw-thread-hold-down-clamp-104459
And for providing a push/pull clamping action
-https://www.axminstertools.com/ujk-self-adjust-push-pull-toggle-clamp-anchor-dog-107252

 

[Packard]

Both of those clamps appear to have a thumbnut that would have to be installed from under the table.  You would need at least 4 to 6 inches of space to reach your arm under the surface and screw in the thumbnut. 

This video is less than 4 minutes and will give you a better idea of what space you would need.

 

[afish]

Thanks to all for your replies so far. That is really useful to know.

I am thinking of doing a DIY MFT in 30mm MDF so it sounds like the dogs won't likely protrude beneath that at all, however I had not considered the usefulness of being able to just pass a clamp through the hole!

For downwards clamping I had been looking at something like this
-https://www.axminstertools.com/axminster-trade-clamps-screw-thread-hold-down-clamp-104459
And for providing a push/pull clamping action
-https://www.axminstertools.com/ujk-self-adjust-push-pull-toggle-clamp-anchor-dog-107252

You have to remember that MDF is pretty soft actually wood in general is soft.  When you have a clamp like those it tends to wedge itself in the hole and while I realize that it has a nut on the bottom it will still want to wedge itself and put lateral force on the hole.  This leads to loose and sloppy holes over time.  I would suggest you stick with the festool style clamps,  like these
https://www.amazon.com/Festool-491594-Quick-Clamp-System/dp/B001U309KW/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=festool+clamps&qid=1637778011&sr=8-5

or
https://www.amazon.com/Festool-489570-Screw-Clamps-4-11/dp/B0184Y7UTW/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=festool+clamps&qid=1637778036&sr=8-5

I tend to think the screw clamps clamp tighter but the "quick" clamps are well, faster while still providing significant clamping force.  You dont "have" to get the festool ones if money is tight.  There are plenty of choices like:
https://www.amazon.com/POWERTEC-Release-Ratcheting-System-Capacity/dp/B07VXMDPG6/ref=sr_1_15?
keywords=festool+clamps&qid=1637778036&sr=8-15

or
https://www.amazon.com/POWERTEC-714...at/dp/B07SN2M3RH/ref=sr_1_14?keywords=festool+clamps&qid=1637778036&sr=8-14

I also think you are on the right track and better off to build your own MFT. Just out of curiosity why are you concerned with the dogs protruding on the under side? 

 

[Vtshopdog]

I suggest checking that standard festool type clamps pictured by Packard or linked by afish can actually be inserted in 30 mm thick panel.

I use 19mm top and my clamps are a little picky when inserting the elbow shape through hole and clamp mouth often needs to be almost fully open to “get around the corner” when inserting. The elbow in this style of clamp might not make it through a 20mm hole drilled in 30 mm panel.

Of course if you don’t want to use this type of clamp then not an issue.

 

[samsmith93]

Thanks to all for your replies so far. That is really useful to know.

I am thinking of doing a DIY MFT in 30mm MDF so it sounds like the dogs won't likely protrude beneath that at all, however I had not considered the usefulness of being able to just pass a clamp through the hole!

For downwards clamping I had been looking at something like this
-https://www.axminstertools.com/axminster-trade-clamps-screw-thread-hold-down-clamp-104459
And for providing a push/pull clamping action
-https://www.axminstertools.com/ujk-self-adjust-push-pull-toggle-clamp-anchor-dog-107252

You have to remember that MDF is pretty soft actually wood in general is soft.  When you have a clamp like those it tends to wedge itself in the hole and while I realize that it has a nut on the bottom it will still want to wedge itself and put lateral force on the hole.  This leads to loose and sloppy holes over time.  I would suggest you stick with the festool style clamps,  like these
https://www.amazon.com/Festool-491594-Quick-Clamp-System/dp/B001U309KW/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=festool+clamps&qid=1637778011&sr=8-5

or
https://www.amazon.com/Festool-489570-Screw-Clamps-4-11/dp/B0184Y7UTW/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=festool+clamps&qid=1637778036&sr=8-5

I tend to think the screw clamps clamp tighter but the "quick" clamps are well, faster while still providing significant clamping force.  You dont "have" to get the festool ones if money is tight.  There are plenty of choices like:
https://www.amazon.com/POWERTEC-Release-Ratcheting-System-Capacity/dp/B07VXMDPG6/ref=sr_1_15?
keywords=festool+clamps&qid=1637778036&sr=8-15

or
https://www.amazon.com/POWERTEC-714...at/dp/B07SN2M3RH/ref=sr_1_14?keywords=festool+clamps&qid=1637778036&sr=8-14

I also think you are on the right track and better off to build your own MFT. Just out of curiosity why are you concerned with the dogs protruding on the under side?

I will have a read through what you have suggested - R.e your last point about dogs on the underside - i have a small shed workshop and i was hoping to simply attach a DIY MFT to my existing bench which is up against the wall - so it would sit on top of my current bench - no access to the bottom

 

[Stone Message]

Thanks to all for your replies so far. That is really useful to know.

I am thinking of doing a DIY MFT in 30mm MDF so it sounds like the dogs won't likely protrude beneath that at all, however I had not considered the usefulness of being able to just pass a clamp through the hole!

For downwards clamping I had been looking at something like this
-https://www.axminstertools.com/axminster-trade-clamps-screw-thread-hold-down-clamp-104459
And for providing a push/pull clamping action
-https://www.axminstertools.com/ujk-self-adjust-push-pull-toggle-clamp-anchor-dog-107252

Why do you want 30 mm thick MDF for your top? If you intend to move your home made MFT around it will be very heavy. Also, those Festool clamps (shown above) will not work unless you chamfer the underside of all of your 20 mm holes.

!9 mm MDF is a very inexpensive and readily available material. If you mess it up completely (it takes me at least 2 years to destroy a top) then it is as cheap as chips to replace.

Peter

 

[jeffinsgf]

I will have a read through what you have suggested - R.e your last point about dogs on the underside - i have a small shed workshop and i was hoping to simply attach a DIY MFT to my existing bench which is up against the wall - so it would sit on top of my current bench - no access to the bottom

If you want to use the tools and accessories you see used on this forum and Festool's website, you'll need access to the bottom of the grid table and some clearance as well. I would suggest you plan on some 6" risers between your regular workbench and the grid table.

 

[afish]

Thanks to all for your replies so far. That is really useful to know.

I am thinking of doing a DIY MFT in 30mm MDF so it sounds like the dogs won't likely protrude beneath that at all, however I had not considered the usefulness of being able to just pass a clamp through the hole!

For downwards clamping I had been looking at something like this
-https://www.axminstertools.com/axminster-trade-clamps-screw-thread-hold-down-clamp-104459
And for providing a push/pull clamping action
-https://www.axminstertools.com/ujk-self-adjust-push-pull-toggle-clamp-anchor-dog-107252

You have to remember that MDF is pretty soft actually wood in general is soft.  When you have a clamp like those it tends to wedge itself in the hole and while I realize that it has a nut on the bottom it will still want to wedge itself and put lateral force on the hole.  This leads to loose and sloppy holes over time.  I would suggest you stick with the festool style clamps,  like these
https://www.amazon.com/Festool-491594-Quick-Clamp-System/dp/B001U309KW/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=festool+clamps&qid=1637778011&sr=8-5

or
https://www.amazon.com/Festool-489570-Screw-Clamps-4-11/dp/B0184Y7UTW/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=festool+clamps&qid=1637778036&sr=8-5

I tend to think the screw clamps clamp tighter but the "quick" clamps are well, faster while still providing significant clamping force.  You dont "have" to get the festool ones if money is tight.  There are plenty of choices like:
https://www.amazon.com/POWERTEC-Release-Ratcheting-System-Capacity/dp/B07VXMDPG6/ref=sr_1_15?
keywords=festool+clamps&qid=1637778036&sr=8-15

or
https://www.amazon.com/POWERTEC-714...at/dp/B07SN2M3RH/ref=sr_1_14?keywords=festool+clamps&qid=1637778036&sr=8-14

I also think you are on the right track and better off to build your own MFT. Just out of curiosity why are you concerned with the dogs protruding on the under side?

I will have a read through what you have suggested - R.e your last point about dogs on the underside - i have a small shed workshop and i was hoping to simply attach a DIY MFT to my existing bench which is up against the wall - so it would sit on top of my current bench - no access to the bottom

How big of a top are you planning?  and are you planning on using it for cutting?  As others mentioned you really should not need access to the bottom. I also agree with Peter 18-19 mm MDF is the ideal choice.  Is there a reason why you dont or cant just replace the current benches top with a MFT style top and not have to overlay the MFT top over it?  the other option is buid a 2x4 base to make room below for the clamps but that is going to add to the weight and raise the bench height.  Depending on the bench that could be a bad or good thing.  Im 6'4 so I prefer a taller bench but its not for everybody 

 

[Stan Tillinghast]

The Tajima Type 1 tape is unavailable.
I ordered 3 Axminster tapes, the shipping price was the same.
This has been a most interesting thread. Thanks all!

 

[samsmith93]

In the end I have decided to get a 'replacement MFT Top' and I will try and fit this with some 2" risers to my current workbench - hopefully this will work as a good solution!

Thanks for all of your help.

 

[Bertotti]

Do you need a portable bench with holes? Do you mind the cost? How stable does it need to be? I have the mft3 but in hindsight, I could have easily bought the jigs to make my own to my needs. I still use the mft3 along with a bora centipede with a homemade MFT top made for it. The Bora is much more portable and just as stable. I do like the MFT but I think it is seriously overpriced.

 

[squall_line]

Do you need a portable bench with holes? Do you mind the cost? How stable does it need to be? I have the mft3 but in hindsight, I could have easily bought the jigs to make my own to my needs. I still use the mft3 along with a bora centipede with a homemade MFT top made for it. The Bora is much more portable and just as stable. I do like the MFT but I think it is seriously overpriced.

I convinced myself that I needed the Festool "system" with swappable pieces that are all the same working height.  It's an expensive choice to make, since things like the MW1000 with extension table, CMS, MFT, and STM all come with pretty steep price tags.  But I have swapped stuff in and out and I appreciate the small storage footprint that most of the stuff takes up since it all has to get stowed to make room for vehicles (which is also a point in favor of the Bora).

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I can tell you for sure that the Festool clamps (or any of the clones) absolutely will not fit through a 30mm top.
Years ago, I made my first 4' x 8' MFT style grid top from a piece of 30mm MDF, thinking that it would be more solid, with less support underneath. It was and it worked fine initially, since I only used it for dogs and the Festool clamping elements. When I got a pair of the clamps that needed to thread down into the holes, it was a no-go. I fixed it by removing the top and routing a 45 degree bevel around the bottom of the holes. It worked out great, but was a huge amount of work.
When that top was destroyed in a fire however, I didn't bother to do all of that again to replace it. Mine is now 19mm.